Toshiba Refuses To Wave The White Flag In HD DVD-Blu-Ray War

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teamerickson

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Jan 20, 2006
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It's likely that Sony over time would be willing to pay Toshiba to drop HD DVD, so the industry could focus on the one format and end consumer jitters, one analyst suggests.

By Antone Gonsalves, InformationWeek

Jan. 14, 2008

Toshiba, which recently suffered a major setback in its fight to dominate the high-definition movie format for DVDs, on Monday dropped the prices of its HD DVD players and said it would beef up its marketing campaign against the Sony-backed Blu-ray format.

At least one analyst, however, said Toshiba had little chance of winning, and its bravado was more likely an attempt to save face and create a better negotiating position against Blu-ray supporters who would like to see HD DVD go away as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, however, Toshiba was defiant, unveiling lower prices for its HD DVD players. The entry-model HD-A3 is now selling for a manufacturer suggested retail price of $150, the HD-A30 with true HD output of 1080p had a MSRP of $200, and the high-end HD-A35 $300.

In addition, Toshiba said in a statement that it would embark on an "extended advertising campaign" to highlight the benefits of HD DVD over its competitor. The campaign would consist of television, print and online advertising, and would include a mail-in offer in which buyers of a Toshiba player could choose five movie titles at no charge from a list of 15.

Toshiba and other supporters of the HD DVD format suffered a major blow Jan. 4 when Hollywood studio Warner Bros. Entertainment said it would release titles exclusively in Blu-ray starting in June. Warner Bros., which accounts for 20% of the DVD market, had been supporting both formats.

Warner Bros.' defection leaves Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures as the only movie studios releasing HD DVD movies. With so much more content available on Blu-ray starting in the middle of the year, it was unlikely people would buy HD DVD players, analysts said.

Toshiba's latest announcement appeared to be aimed at saving face and building a better future bargaining position with Sony, Michael Greeson, president and principal analyst for The Diffusion Group, told InformationWeek.

"You have more negotiating clout if you continue to actively support the HD DVD format," he said. "If you rollover and play dead, then you have no clout."

It's likely that Sony over time would be willing to pay Toshiba to drop HD DVD, so the industry could focus on the one format and end consumer jitters over buying high-definition DVDs and players. The format wars have kept consumers on the sidelines, preferring to wait to see which format wins before investing money in hardware.

In addition, Toshiba could also negotiate to get some revenue from future Blu-ray-related sales by getting some of its intellectual property into future versions of the technology, Greeson said.

"In the end, you're going to see a pretty big check from Sony to drop the (HD DVD) format," the analyst said. "It's in Sony's interest to get this over with as quickly as possible."

In the meantime, Toshiba is unlikely to get much more than lukewarm support from retailers, since it would be unfair to tell a customer to buy a player that has less content available than its competitor. "It's difficult to rationalize that you're being fair to the customer, if you don't tell them that the content advantage is clearly with Blu-ray," Greeson said.

While continuing its battle, Toshiba could see an increase in sales of its entry-level HD DVD player. That's because the lower price puts it in position to compete against standard DVD players. Greeson said that while Blu-ray and HD DVD players can convert regular DVDs to produce high-definition-like images, Toshiba is trying to use this feature to differentiate its new lower-priced players and thus help spur sales. "That was clever on their part," Greeson said of Toshiba.

The battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD has often been compared to the VHS-Betamax battle that ushered in the VCR era. Sony lost with Betamax, but hoped to avoid the same fate with Blu-ray by leveraging partnerships and the popularity of its PlayStation 3 videogame console, which it released in late 2006 with an integrated Blu-ray disc drive.

Many Hollywood and consumer electronics manufacturers took sides in support of either Blu-ray or HD DVD. MGM, 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures, and Sony are exclusively releasing DVDs in Blu-ray, while Universal and Paramount distributed only in HD DVD. Warner was the only major studio left supporting both formats, after Paramount chose HD DVD last year.

Among player manufacturers, Sony, Hitachi and Philips favor Blu-ray, while Toshiba and NEC support HD DVD. Toshiba led the effort in the creation of HD DVD.

Toshiba Refuses To Wave The White Flag In HD DVD-Blu-Ray War -- HD DVD -- InformationWeek
 
Diogen, while this might of been discussed I would like to discuss Toshiba using their consumers in order to push for a monetary settlement from the BDA. I also think that Universal and Paramount might try the same tactic.

While I understand the premise I think that this would be a disaster from the point of view of the consumer. Toshiba is willing to push a dead format until they get paid off to stop. I think that this is dispicable. They will price those players at a price that is low enough for J6P who does not usually go online and read sites like this one so they will be ill prepaired and this will damage HDM disc sales for the future.

The best thing to do now that Warner has made their choice is for B&M to fall in line and push HD-DVD off the shelves. If they decide to do that then they can avert exactly what Toshiba and Universal are trying to do. I think it is time to start a letter writting campaing to the B&M and let them know that this move by Toshiba will not only damage the consumers faith in Toshiba and Universal but also that of the B&M that supports it.
 
Upon further thought I think that first the BDA should find out if the HD-DVD group who now only consists of Toshiba, Universal and Paramount can be bought out. And then let that information be known publically. Second, large B&M should sell out their HD-DVD product and not replenish - just let HD-DVD go. Let Toshiba go it online if they want. Third, the BDA should should make an offer to HD-DVD owners to get them to convert to BD. Maybe an offer for a reduced price on a BD player and/or a reduced priced for the BD copy of the HD-DVD copy they currently own. Do this for 90 days and then let it go.

These three things happen and maybe, just maybe then we will have and end to this nonsense!
 
While I understand the premise I think that this would be a disaster from the point of view of the consumer. ...I think that this is dispicable.
Emotions, emotions...
...so they will be ill prepaired and this will damage HDM disc sales for the future.
This is the goal... unless they get paid not to do it.:)
I think it is time to start a letter writting campaing to the B&M and let them know that this move by Toshiba will not only damage the consumers faith in Toshiba and Universal but also that of the B&M that supports it.
Whatever rocks your boat...

Wasn't Sony paid (added to the patent pool) for abandoning their DVD format? Is that despicable, too? Or was Tosh just smarter then than Sony is now?
Upon further thought I think that first the BDA should find out if the HD-DVD group who now only consists of Toshiba, Universal and Paramount can be bought out. And then let that information be known publically. Second, large B&M should sell out their HD-DVD product and not replenish - just let HD-DVD go. Let Toshiba go it online if they want. Third, the BDA should should make an offer to HD-DVD owners to get them to convert to BD. Maybe an offer for a reduced price on a BD player and/or a reduced priced for the BD copy of the HD-DVD copy they currently own. Do this for 90 days and then let it go.

These three things happen and maybe, just maybe then we will have and end to this nonsense!

And you claim you have a business degree?

Diogen.
 
No emotions here Diogen, Toshiba is fleecing their current and future customers. No way around it. They have product they want to sell before the door closes and if the can get the BDA to pay them to stop -- all the better.
 
"HD DVD players can convert regular DVDs to produce high-definition-like images, Toshiba is trying to use this feature to differentiate its new lower-priced players and thus help spur sales. "That was clever on their part," Greeson said of Toshiba."

To me there is nothing wrong with Toshiba advertising in this fashion. This benefits the consumer. They are great upconverters, something the PS3 can't say. This format war has had many ups and downs, the WB decission was just one of them. Those on the BD side crying now because they want a quick knockout should SHUT UP ALREADY. We're not even at 2% of disk sales and you want one side to cave in. Lets try out selling VHS before we start crying.

I can imagine some of you guys here on the 3rd draft of your cute little suburban properly worded email to bestbuy. Makes me laugh.
 
"To me there is nothing wrong with Toshiba advertising in this fashion. This benefits the consumer. They are great upconverters, something the PS3 can't say.


I aslo see nothing wrong with toshiba advertising this ability, however I dont see why the PS3 "cant say" it. From what I can tell it does a pretty decent job of upconversion itself.
 
...Toshiba is fleecing their current and future customers.
...They have product they want to sell before the door closes.
Just think about what you are saying.
Two weeks ago there were two formats fighting in the marketplace, HD being one of them. Warner went BD exclusive.
Tosh can do two things:
- tell everybody - customers and studios - they are abandoning their format and join the BD group
- act as if nothing happened (i.e. screwing Sony is still job #1)

Is it too hard to see that the first option will get them in more trouble - and immediately - than the second?
And we don't know sh!t about any relations between the players to start with...

Like I said, emotions. Let the dust settle...

And if Sony ever hopes for Tosh being firmly in the BD camp, they better call a press conference
(not a press release), show up there, promise "eternal love" and write a fat check...

Diogen.
 
It would be smart of Sony to foreground that a bit more in their advertising of the PS3. I've never had any other upconverting player, but was quite impressed with the PQ when compared side-by-side with my Panasonic 480p DVD player. My GF can't even tell the difference between BD and upconverted DVDs on the PS3.

I've seen a lot of threads on the forum where people inquire about whether the PS3 upconverts, so it obviously is not clear in PS3 marketing. Time to fight fire with fire.
 
No emotions here Diogen, Toshiba is fleecing their current and future customers. No way around it. They have product they want to sell before the door closes and if the can get the BDA to pay them to stop -- all the better.
Contrary to blue FUD trolls beliefs everywhere the HD DVD's on your shelf at home will not self destruct. The consumer is not being fleeced.
 
I aslo see nothing wrong with toshiba advertising this ability, however I dont see why the PS3 "cant say" it. From what I can tell it does a pretty decent job of upconversion itself.
There is nothing stopping PS3 from advertising, its their choice, but from most reviews I hear that it does not do a good job at upconverting. Thus could be the reason why I have never hear them advertising that feature. I don't recall what chip the PS3 uses but it doesn't appear a great match for upconverting.
 
There is nothing stopping PS3 from advertising, its their choice, but from most reviews I hear that it does not do a good job at upconverting. Thus could be the reason why I have never hear them advertising that feature.
Sony is running a very thin line between confusing the marketplace as to the purpose of the PS3. Given the surprisingly sparse field of gaming titles, it would be easy to get the PS3 labelled as a Blu-Ray player with gaming features.

The real question is still whether or not the Blu-Ray camp can deliver a format that is clearly comparable (or even superior) feature-wise to the HD-DVD baseline before the next big format comes along. HD-DVD may not have the storage capacity specifications in their favor, but it seems to have everything else figured out. Blu-Ray must shake the "half baked" sandwich board that it is wearing with respect to advanced features.
 
There is nothing stopping PS3 from advertising, its their choice, but from most reviews I hear that it does not do a good job at upconverting. Thus could be the reason why I have never hear them advertising that feature. I don't recall what chip the PS3 uses but it doesn't appear a great match for upconverting.

Not sure what reviews you're reading, but the PS3 is at least as good as my A2 at upconverting. By the way, it uses the cell processor, which is the same "chip" that Toshiba is rumored to be considering for a "super-upconvert" machine.

Contrary to blue FUD trolls beliefs everywhere the HD DVD's on your shelf at home will not self destruct. The consumer is not being fleeced.

Yep. And BD movies will still play on profile 1.0 players, too.
 
There is nothing stopping PS3 from advertising, its their choice, but from most reviews I hear that it does not do a good job at upconverting. Thus could be the reason why I have never hear them advertising that feature. I don't recall what chip the PS3 uses but it doesn't appear a great match for upconverting.
I agree with Onuos, I have been pleasantly suprised with the upconvert ability of the PS3 (as good as any otheres I have seen)

Edit: I knew that they could say it, i was just wondering why you thought it was not any good at it. Now I see that it is from "reviews" and not first hand knowledge. Got any links to those reveiws?
 

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