Trees - Can I use my neighbor's dish?

[GrantGannon]

All,

About a month ago DirecTV came to a house I am renting to do an install. Long story short, no clear line of sight for HD because of trees. There was talk of a pole mount in the front yard, but I'm not going to be that neighbor. I opted for cable and for the last 30 days it has been a nightmare.

I have an idea and am looking to this forum for help.

My house is in a small neighborhood of similarly sized small houses and backs up to a very small alley and then another house. That house has a DirecTV dish on the back pointing to clear sky.

In between our house is a utility pole feeding power/cable/phone to our respective houses. The coax cable coming off the utility pole runs almost to the exact spot where his dish is located. Here's my plan, is it possible?

With the permission of my neighbor, have DirecTV run a line off his dish, up to the utility pole and then down to my house.

Does DirecTV do that sort of thing? Is it even possible to capture a separate signal for my separate signal?

The distance point to point is 150 feet, so say 175 to account for slope/slack of the line.

Is this possible?

 

[Pixl]

Technically it is possible to share a dish, Direct tv and your neighbor may cooperate, but they probably won't do the utility pole attachment. Perhaps underground?

 

[GrantGannon]

The alley is the only impediment to that and is my fear. I think my neighbor (who I haven't actually met yet) would less likely to go along if we had a to bury a cable...and what sort of permission would I have to get to bury it in the alley?

 

[JerseyMatt]

Would have to be from the city, most likely involving permits and inspections, and then it would probably have to be 3' deep in conduit. But there is no way the utilities would allow you to attach to the pole. No way to use the cable drops either, because those are cable company property.

The major flaw in this plan is if the neighbor cancels and wants to remove the dish, or sells the house and the new owners snip the cable, you lose TV and you have zero recourse (you can't force them to put it back up, and if you're still in contract you're stuck paying it out or paying the ETF).

I don't see the issue with having the dish in your front yard. It's quite common around here. It's not like it's a 10 foot C band dish..

 

[Joe Diamond]

You cannot put a dish on a power pole! The first tech who finds the extra stuff is empowered to remove it and report you.
Using the coax...might work.
Sharing the dish can work but you have to be prepared for the possibilities mentioned by others. Who pays for service? Any Directv tech is ordered to fix only the account on the property with the dish...not your rig.
Cutting a pavement & digging ....probably not possible. Digging under a road = $$$$$$. These "road bores" use special equipment to run under paved roads. IF they hit other underground utilities or just go straight down to avoid a rock...you pay $$$$$ and still get no service.

Tough one!

Joe

 

[Jimbo]

He MAY be able to get away with the Pole mounts seeing it's thru an alleyway ...
The Cable TV company already runs coax off the poles, can see why they would have a problem if the install was not neatly and professionally.

The real issue is you haven't approached your neighbor about it yet.

 

[JerseyMatt]

You cannot put a dish on a power pole! The first tech who finds the extra stuff is empowered to remove it and report you.

Nobody said anything about putting the dish on the power pole.

Using the coax...might work.

No it won't. Cable company property and they aren't going to let you use it to facilitate a competing service.

Sharing the dish can work but you have to be prepared for the possibilities mentioned by others. Who pays for service? Any Directv tech is ordered to fix only the account on the property with the dish...not your rig.

Not sure where you got that from. Plenty of apartment buildings have a 'community' dish that serves multiple tenants. The account is tied to the receivers not the dish. There would be snags as far as permission to enter the neighbor's yard, but that can be dealt with. If there's a dish problem it'll most likely affect both accounts anyway, so the neighbor could just call. But you can't say they won't fix a receiver problem because the dish isn't on your property.

Cutting a pavement & digging ....probably not possible. Digging under a road = $$$$$$. These "road bores" use special equipment to run under paved roads. IF they hit other underground utilities or just go straight down to avoid a rock...you pay $$$$$ and still get no service.

This isn't a road, it's a utility alley, and if it's anything like they are here, it's dirt. More than likely it could be done with a trencher (basically a huge chainsaw for cutting dirt). Like I said though there would be permits, inspections, and a big ass roll of red tape involved.

 

[JerseyMatt]

He MAY be able to get away with the Pole mounts seeing it's thru an alleyway ...
The Cable TV company already runs coax off the poles, can see why they would have a problem if the install was not neatly and professionally.

The real issue is you haven't approached your neighbor about it yet.

No unauthorized person is ever allowed to attach anything to a utility pole. You can't get permission.

 

[Jimbo]

Nobody said anything about putting the dish on the power pole.

No it won't. Cable company property and they aren't going to let you use it to facilitate a competing service.

Not sure where you got that from. Plenty of apartment buildings have a 'community' dish that serves multiple tenants. The account is tied to the receivers not the dish. There would be snags as far as permission to enter the neighbor's yard, but that can be dealt with. If there's a dish problem it'll most likely affect both accounts anyway, so the neighbor could just call. But you can't say they won't fix a receiver problem because the dish isn't on your property.

This isn't a road, it's a utility alley, and if it's anything like they are here, it's dirt. More than likely it could be done with a trencher (basically a huge chainsaw for cutting dirt). Like I said though there would be permits, inspections, and a big ass roll of red tape involved.

Sorry Matt,
Theres not a Cable Company in the USA that OWNS the telephone pole.
The telephone poles ARE owned by thier the Electric Company or the Phone Company

 

[Jimbo]

No unauthorized person is ever allowed to attach anything to a utility pole. You can't get permission.

And you don't think a Company such as a Cable company or a Television provide could not come up with the OK.

I work on the poles daily, IF a sub asked me to string a coax for them (seeing it's for TV or Telephone) I probably would .

I do alot of stuff to make the subs ability to get D* easier. D* is partnered with my company so it's actually EASY to do.

I work closely with subs getting Phone/Internet /D* every day.

 

[stardust3]

And you don't think a Company such as a Cable company or a Television provide could not come up with the OK.

I work on the poles daily, IF a sub asked me to string a coax for them (seeing it's for TV or Telephone) I probably would .

I do alot of stuff to make the subs ability to get D* easier. D* is partnered with my company so it's actually EASY to do.

I work closely with subs getting Phone/Internet /D* every day.

Who would know the difference? Especially if it were done like the existing drops already hanging. Not many could tell unless it was a field person to begin with & I'm sure most of them could care less as long as it didn't interfere with their work.

 

[Jimbo]

Who would know the difference? Especially if it were done like the existing drops already hanging. Not many could tell unless it was a field person to begin with & I'm sure most of them could care less as long as it didn't interfere with their work.

Thats EXACTLY what I am trying to point out.

 

[JerseyMatt]

Sorry Matt,
Theres not a Cable Company in the USA that OWNS the telephone pole.
The telephone poles ARE owned by thier the Electric Company or the Phone Company

I never said they did. I said they own the DROPS. Because it was suggested that they use the existing drops to bridge the houses, and since the drops are cable co property, you can't do it. If I were a cable co tech and saw two non-subscriber drops connected together like that you can bet your ass they'd be cut and laying in your lawns.

And ALL utility poles that have power lines are owned by the power company. The phone and cable companies pay rent to the power company to be able to use the poles.

And you don't think a Company such as a Cable company or a Television provide could not come up with the OK.

I work on the poles daily, IF a sub asked me to string a coax for them (seeing it's for TV or Telephone) I probably would .

I do alot of stuff to make the subs ability to get D* easier. D* is partnered with my company so it's actually EASY to do.

I work closely with subs getting Phone/Internet /D* every day.

I really don't care what you 'probably' would do. You are trying to justify an excuse for doing something illegal. You are not allowed to attach ANYTHING that is not utility owned to a utility pole. Just because it's 'for TV' and you work somewhere in the telecom industry doesn't give you any authority to do it because it is customer owned cable. By that rationale I should be able to run an ethernet cable from my house up the pole, over to the next pole, and down to my friend's house in order to share his internet connection (since it's either telecom or cable). But no, it doesn't work that way, because it's ILLEGAL to attach anything to a utility pole. If the customer you did this for got caught and fined, would you be willing to take the heat and pay the fine for them because you did something illegal? I didn't think so.

 

[Jimbo]

I never said they did. I said they own the DROPS. Because it was suggested that they use the existing drops to bridge the houses, and since the drops are cable co property, you can't do it. If I were a cable co tech and saw two non-subscriber drops connected together like that you can bet your ass they'd be cut and laying in your lawns.

And ALL utility poles that have power lines are owned by the power company. The phone and cable companies pay rent to the power company to be able to use the poles.



I really don't care what you 'probably' would do. You are trying to justify an excuse for doing something illegal. You are not allowed to attach ANYTHING that is not utility owned to a utility pole. Just because it's 'for TV' and you work somewhere in the telecom industry doesn't give you any authority to do it because it is customer owned cable. By that rationale I should be able to run an ethernet cable from my house up the pole, over to the next pole, and down to my friend's house in order to share his internet connection (since it's either telecom or cable). But no, it doesn't work that way, because it's ILLEGAL to attach anything to a utility pole. If the customer you did this for got caught and fined, would you be willing to take the heat and pay the fine for them because you did something illegal? I didn't think so.

Wrong again .....

The Telephone poles are OWNED by the Phone Company OR the Edison (Electric) as I said before.
IF that was NOT the case, you wouldn't be going out to an accident to see if it's a Phone company pole or a Edison Pole, if it's a Edison pole THEY replace it, if it's Phone Pole the Phone Co. replaces it.
IF you look at one some time, you'll find a tag on it that says so.

What, you mean that D* DOESN'T OWN the coax that they are placing on the peoples houses that it actually belongs to the Cable Company ?
Thats what you said according to the last statement.

Once I place a line on the subs house it belongs to the SUB.

You should see all the sh*t I see hanging from a pole daily, I understand that I am allowed to take down every clothes line (Subs, not Phone Company) Garage sale sign, Flower bed, that I find on our poles, but do I ? NO, not unless I absolutely have to. But your right, I have the right to.

Now, if you can tell the difference between the coax that the Cable Company uses and the one the Phone company uses (Yes, they use coax to) btw, we all get it from the same company(s) .... No it doesn't say Cable Company ON IT.

IF your gonna climb the pole to check to see if someone drop belongs to you or not, have fun, most companies are tooooo busy to worry about such trivial stuff.

I've seen peoples Electric wires going to poles, NO NOT EDISON, thier own, are you cutting that down ? Good luck with that.

I've seen people running power from one house to another, NOPE, I'm not touching it.

IF I decided to run a coax from my house to the one across the alley YOU would NEVER know it. (I don't have any alleys here, so you don't need to look).

 

[Joe Diamond]

Jimbo,

I think we have climbed the same poles.
While saying that coax is coax......I have always trusted the system that will not involve themselves in contractor disputes over payment to also manage to be ineffective in pointing the finger at installers who may open a vault or two. I once toned a residential UG to a ped across the street and told the cx I could not connect that wire to this one with this barrel connector.......

The job went in...55 / 15...big whoop! Her father, across the street ,had LOS, $$$ & beer. Multiswitches have many outlets.

Sometimes you do it or eat the ride costs!

Joe

 

[Joe Diamond]

JerseyMatt,

Everything you say is correct. I might add that the power company and the telephone company are public utilities.....which are controlled everywhere. Cable companies are not public utilities even though they think they are. But what Jimbo stated is more they way the world works. There is just so much cable up there that if you can tone a line....grab it.

They won't care or notice!

Joe

 

[ts7]

Any time you install anything whether it be a cable, fence, driveway, building - whatever - on another person's property you need an easement. That gives you the legal right to do so and usually involves some kind of compensation to the property owner. Typically this involves a legal document spelling out the specifics and gets filed with the appropriate local govt agency along with property deed.

In the case of a cable, if it also crosses a public right of way, as others have mentioned, there will be numerous procedures and red tape to follow with the local govt and utilities that have facilities in the area. You would also be responsible for any maintenance, including moving/removing to allow other utilities to work or to allow oversize traffic through the right of way.

Also, don't forget about the liability associated with having this on both your neighbor's property and the public ROW. I'm betting your homeowners insurance won't cover it without a special rider, if at all.

One other thing regarding some other aspects of this discussion - generally it is the electric or phone company that own the poles but not always. Sometimes it is local municipality that owns them and often, when the pole is on private property or serves only a private residence or business, the pole may be owned by the property owner.

 

[JerseyMatt]

Ok you're twisting my words up here - AGAIN.

The Telephone poles are OWNED by the Phone Company OR the Edison (Electric) as I said before.
IF that was NOT the case, you wouldn't be going out to an accident to see if it's a Phone company pole or a Edison Pole, if it's a Edison pole THEY replace it, if it's Phone Pole the Phone Co. replaces it.
IF you look at one some time, you'll find a tag on it that says so.

I have never seen a utility pole that has power lines on it that is owned by the telephone company. They all have the tag on it that says <insert power company name here> and the pole number or coordinates.

What, you mean that D* DOESN'T OWN the coax that they are placing on the peoples houses that it actually belongs to the Cable Company ?
Thats what you said according to the last statement.

I have no idea where you got that from, because I never said anything to imply that the cable company owns all coax on the planet. But you obviously have no idea what the term 'demarcation line' means. It means any drop (wire) between the pole and a certain point on a house/apartment building/etc belongs to the utility. For electric it is up to the splice between the triplex cable and the masthead (not the meter - even though the masthead carries power before it is metered, it and the meter base belong to the property owner). For telephone it is the NID/ONT, and for cable it is the ground block. If the wiring is damaged up to and including that line, it is the utility's responsibility to repair or replace it at no charge to the subscriber. Anything AFTER that line is the subscriber's responsibility. So like I said, the cable drop from the pole to a house is CABLE COMPANY PROPERTY, whether they are a cable subscriber or not.

There is no such differentiation with D*, Dish, or OTA, because there is nothing that connects to the pole. You are perfectly fine connecting the dish to existing wiring inside the house because it belongs to the property owner. but you have no right whatsoever to use the cable company drops to bridge two properties because that cable belongs to the cable company.

Once I place a line on the subs house it belongs to the SUB.

If it is part of a D* system, you're right. If it's a telco or cable drop, you're wrong.

You should see all the sh*t I see hanging from a pole daily, I understand that I am allowed to take down every clothes line (Subs, not Phone Company) Garage sale sign, Flower bed, that I find on our poles, but do I ? NO, not unless I absolutely have to. But your right, I have the right to.

Well maybe you should start. Then people wouldn't be under the impression that it's OK to attach whatever they want to a pole. I just can't believe you are honestly trying to justify something that's illegal on the basis that you would look the other way.

Now, if you can tell the difference between the coax that the Cable Company uses and the one the Phone company uses (Yes, they use coax to) btw, we all get it from the same company(s) .... No it doesn't say Cable Company ON IT.

Even though this goes back to wherever you got that warped idea that I said the cable company owns all coax on the planet, I'll bite. There is not a telco in this country that uses coax as a customer drop. There's not even a telco that uses coax between a pad site and the pole. It's all twisted pair or fiber. Verizon uses a flexible fiber/twisted 4 pair that is siamesed together for Fios (looks similar to coax) for their drops, and other telcos (like mine) run heavy jacketed fiber underground to the ONT. But no coax, sorry.

IF your gonna climb the pole to check to see if someone drop belongs to you or not, have fun, most companies are tooooo busy to worry about such trivial stuff.

I guess you've never seen the cable companies run audits looking for thieves, huh? Or go up a pole on an unrelated service call? You don't think they would notice that then? Like I said, I don't think they'd be pleased with non-customers using their property to facilitate a competing service.

I've seen peoples Electric wires going to poles, NO NOT EDISON, thier own, are you cutting that down ? Good luck with that.

See the difference here is that's called a 'yard pole'. They are very common in these parts. They usually have the customer's meter and breaker box attached to them, and they feed outbuildings like barns and pumphouses. But they are inside the demarcation line, and belong to the property owner. If something knocks it down, the property owner is responsible for replacing it before the utilities will reconnect.

I've seen people running power from one house to another, NOPE, I'm not touching it.

If it's not attached to a utility pole, you have no right to. But if it did, I'm sure a power company tech would have no qualms about snipping it AND disconnecting service to the other house to make sure there isn't a live line laying there. Then I'm sure it would be reported to the code enforcement office.

IF I decided to run a coax from my house to the one across the alley YOU would NEVER know it. (I don't have any alleys here, so you don't need to look).

Maybe not.. But if I did you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you (or the neighbor) had no TV one day and found your line laying in your yard, cut. You also wouldn't have any defense if you got a ticket for it, because it is ILLEGAL. Ignorance is not a valid defense.

 

[JerseyMatt]

Jimbo,

I think we have climbed the same poles.
While saying that coax is coax......I have always trusted the system that will not involve themselves in contractor disputes over payment to also manage to be ineffective in pointing the finger at installers who may open a vault or two. I once toned a residential UG to a ped across the street and told the cx I could not connect that wire to this one with this barrel connector.......

The job went in...55 / 15...big whoop! Her father, across the street ,had LOS, $$$ & beer. Multiswitches have many outlets.

Sometimes you do it or eat the ride costs!

Joe

Not saying it couldn't be done, I'm saying it's illegal. And if some tech were to open that can and find it, they are within their rights to cut it. Neither property owner would have any recourse nor legal leg to stand on to get it put back. Same as Jimbo's last example. Legally it's trespassing, and I'm sure you wouldn't take the heat and eat the fine for it if the customer pointed a finger at you - just like Jimbo wouldn't.

 

[rkr0923]

To answer your question, yes you can use your neighbors dish with their permission.