TV5 MONDE is FTA in North America?

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gigimarga

Thread Starter
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Mar 22, 2010
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Twin Cities, Minnesota
Hi,
I will appreciate if anyone will post some info on how to get TV5 MONDE EUROPE as fta in the Midwest. I live in the Twin Cities area and according to Hispasat 1C at 30.0°W - LyngSat hispasat 1C has TV5 MONDE fta over North America (the link to the beam is: Hispasat - Flota de satélites - Hispasat 1C - Coberturas and shows a big part of the Midwest covered).

From this forum it appears that quite a few colleagues are able in the Twin Cities to get fta channels from hispasat 1c. I will appreciate if anyone can confirm that TV5 MONDE EUROPE is also viewable.

TV5 MONDE is fta in Europe, Asia and Africa.

Thank you.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
welcome :wave to Satelliteguys from another Twin Citian (on the south side of the now seriously flooded Minnesota river) ;)

TV5 Monde is only available in Europe. There are a couple beams on Hispasat
-Europe beam
-North American Beam

and TV5 (which shows at 12092 V on Lyngsat) is for the Europe beam

Can Hispasat be picked up here? yes it can. Its very low elevation (9ish) but can be done. Here are a couple pics of my setup at the time for 30W
 

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nycrich

nycrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 25, 2006
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West Palm Beach, FL
The only FTA french programming on Ku is on Intelsat 903 34.5W which is RFO Tempo/France O on 11675H 3000. I am using a 90cm on a motor and can pick it up. However I am in Ft lauderdale , FL, and I believe the beam stop in Florida, as it is really spot beamed in the French islands of the Caribbean.
 
L

Look Up

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 5, 2008
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Colorado
I know you are looking for TV5 MONDE in particular, but there is also some French language programming on 97W (Galaxy 19). ORTM from Mali is almost all in French. M2 Morocco and Canal Algerie also have some French programs. (Canal Algerie shows some good Discovery Channel type programs in French and they have a pretty nice picture for a standard definition channel). I'm sure there are other French language stations, but these come to mind right now.
 
John Popper

John Popper

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 11, 2009
788
5
Central Mexico
I get TV5Monde from my local cable provider so I have that set but I do wonder why there aren't many French Language or French channels on FTA, aside from France 24 (which unfortunately is in English) and some Quebec Channels on C Band or the African Channels on 97 I see very very few French content on the arc, or at least with my setup and the arc I am able to get.
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
that is a Starchoice (Channlemaster) 75e dish...37x27". Its a Canadian subscription provider

The LNB is a quad LNB that sees 107.3 & 111.1 (the 2 Starchoice sats) with a integrated 22k switch. I had issues with 107.3 LNB going bad so I switched to a different dish setup (Primestar dish).

I used the 111.1 side since it is boresight (107.3 is offset) and aimed the dish at 30W. Worked pretty well for most TP's. The weaker ones either very low (15-20 quality) or non existent.
 
C

classicsat

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Nov 28, 2009
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Ontario, Canada
I get TV5Monde from my local cable provider so I have that set but I do wonder why there aren't many French Language or French channels on FTA, aside from France 24 (which unfortunately is in English) and some Quebec Channels on C Band or the African Channels on 97 I see very very few French content on the arc, or at least with my setup and the arc I am able to get.

Because they have valuable content they want to limit to paying viewers or customers, simple as that.
 
G

gigimarga

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Mar 22, 2010
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Twin Cities, Minnesota
Because they have valuable content they want to limit to paying viewers or customers, simple as that.

It is true they have valuable content. It is value to some (for instance myself) but not to all. I do not have a French ancestry of any kind and I just happened to learn French at a certain point in my life. I consider this learning as some sort of investment that I made and I feel the need to protect it to some extent. However, it is not that important for me to deserve the pain and cost to subscribe to TV5. Once in a while I do check the cost and just for having TV5 (nothing else) it would cost me $20/month. The bad news for me is that even that would not be enough. I happen to live in a homeowners association with very strict rules with respect to what you can have on the roof. It took me an application, a denial, an appeal for reconsideration, a visit home from the appropriate committee, a change of location for the dish and a personal appeal (short of begging) to get approval for my existing fta dish. At this point, if I want to get another antenna (for TV5) I will have to give up the fta channels that I want.

Now, with respect to how valuable the TV5 is, I did a nonscientific survey of my extended group of friends to find out how many speak French to the point of enjoying watching it (TV5). I can count at least 20 people. They all had access to TV5 at a certain point in the past (for instance when living on a campus or, in other cases before coming to USA). In my 12 years in USA, I never met an individual who spoke French and also had a TV5 subscription, not even French people.

Another angle to see the value of TV5 is to acknowledge that this program is free to air in Europe, all Asia, and Africa. My question is: if the program is so valuable, why they give it for free everywhere except America? The only answer I have for this question is that they have made a conscious business decision. They noticed that in America, the vast majority of programming is fee based and decided to make some money. It appears they are happy with fewer customers as long as they make money. Based on their statistics, there are about 330000 households with access to TV5 in USA. I am sure they count entire campuses where most probably only a few are actively watching it. In my research for an answer to the question above, I have written in the past to two French Presidents: Jaques Chirac and to the current President Nicolas Sarekozy. I also contacted in repeated occasions the TV5 headquarters in France, the French Embassy in DC and the local representative of TV5 in America. Besides the fact that those exchanges provided me with some exercise in French, they all come up with the answer that in "america, tv programming is a business and therefore, to participate, we need to engage in it the way it is: charging a fee". I even went as far as to check the mission adopted for TV5. One reference reads: "Définie dans la charte de la chaîne, adoptée lors de la 19e conférence des ministres responsables de TV5 du 19 septembre 2005, la mission générale de service public de TV5 Monde consiste à assurer le rayonnement mondial du patrimoine audiovisuel francophone dans toute sa diversité en reflétant la dimension multilatérale de la Francophonie." I am not going to translate this but in my judgment making money is not the main purpose they were set up for. Unfortunately, they forgot about it, after all... who reads the mission statements other than auditors?

I am not done with assessing the value of TV5. One of the important things in their programming (at least for me) are the French movies. There are two issues with this:
1. Not everybody likes French movies. This includes people who speak French or where educated in French. I dont enjoy all the French movies I was able to see in the past. I do enjoy some. But when it comes to this, I always remember a vivid discussion with a large group of students in France who were studying there with French stipends (full scholarships). I need to make the point that although I dreamed about getting a French scholarship to study in France myself (actually I had a job lined up and whiling to work my way up through college there if accepted) applied to get accepted in schools in France, visited the most my budget allowed me to, I never got a reply from them (not even a denial). Now, this group of young foreign students on French scholarships was discussing the quality of the French cinema and it just daunted on me that they did not like it at all. They argued that "le film Francais s'est nul" or, in other words that it is worthless. The good news is that they all enjoyed the american movies and please dont get me wrong, I like the american movies just not all of them. I only had an expectation that out of some sort of reverence for the chance and opportunity those students were given, they will at least try to pay respect to the country hosting them. Well, everybody has the right to like or dislike in this free world but what I am getting out of this is that TV5 is not as valuable even to people that may have benefited from the French culture.
2. The TV5 MONDE USA is actually a different program from TV5 MONDE EUROPE. They have several other variations in different parts of the world. What that means practically, is that the French movies come with English subtitles. This looks good, and for those not speaking French this is indeed a useful addition to help them understand and enjoy a French movie. Unfortunately, this is not what I need. Especially because I do understand French (but not perfectly) I need French subtitles to help me out and not English. Again, I hope nobody will accuse me of not watching american programming but I can assure you that most of the time, when I am renting an american movie, I watch it with Close Captioning ON. But I have it in English and not in French or any other language. I doubt the average person can easily watch a movie in one language, read the subtitles in another one and simultaneously improve their skills in both.

One of the programs I used to enjoy on TV5 was Thalassa. It appears that on the website of France 3 (Thalassa : le magazine de la mer présenté par Georges Pernoud - France3) one can watch full episodes of this program. If it is so valuable as to restrict it to paying viewers why it is free online on the website of the host channel? Is there a hidden cost? Is there a "use tax" that I am supposed to pay voluntarily for watching it even if the program is offered free online?

In my view this is not simple at all but I am not going into the details of what may be the lost opportunities for the promoters of TV5 due to the business model they chose for North America. Its not worth it (to me).
 
G

gigimarga

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Mar 22, 2010
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Twin Cities, Minnesota
The only FTA french programming on Ku is on Intelsat 903 34.5W which is RFO Tempo/France O on 11675H 3000. I am using a 90cm on a motor and can pick it up. However I am in Ft lauderdale , FL, and I believe the beam stop in Florida, as it is really spot beamed in the French islands of the Caribbean.

Thank you,

I did try to find RFO but as you mentioned this is delivered by a spot beam viewable only around the French Islands in the Caribbean. I am surprised that it can be viewed in Florida. There is no chance for me in the Midwest. Interestingly, France has a tiny island very close to Canada's shore - TV5 is not available there according to TV5's website)

This brings up an interesting question that I had for some time but did not know how to formulate it. It is clear that by using a spot beam, the RFO channel is not intended to be viewed in Florida. Its like someone packing a cart with fish planning to go to the fish market to sell it. They certainly do not intend to loose any fish along the way. However, if the packing is not adequate or the cart is somehow damaged, some fish may get lost. The question is: what is the moral (and probably separate, legal) obligation for someone who finds a fish and fully knows the owner who lost it?

In this case, it is clear that the intent of the RFO promoters was to make it available in a specific location only. Is the attempt (and success) to view that channel elsewhere legal? I tend to believe it is not, particularly because RFO and TV5 appear to be part of the same structure and TV5 has a clear business interest in Florida.
 
G

gigimarga

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 22, 2010
13
0
Twin Cities, Minnesota
I know you are looking for TV5 MONDE in particular, but there is also some French language programming on 97W (Galaxy 19). ORTM from Mali is almost all in French. M2 Morocco and Canal Algerie also have some French programs. (Canal Algerie shows some good Discovery Channel type programs in French and they have a pretty nice picture for a standard definition channel). I'm sure there are other French language stations, but these come to mind right now.

Thank you,

I know about M2 Morocco and Canal Algerie. Unfortunately, many times, even if the moderator is trying to conduct the discussions in French, someone will continue in Arabic. Unfortunately I do not understand Arabic. I should probably check the programming online for those channels.

I was not aware of ORTM and I will check it up. I know RTS from Senegal has some French programming but very very rare. Other than that, I only found references to a channel called Tele Citronnelle fta but never found it.
 
C

classicsat

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2009
195
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Ontario, Canada
You are forgetting Quebec Canada. If they carry it on their pay providers, any feeds to them will be encrypted.
 
P

perrinrigo

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Oct 25, 2006
24
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Live from PQ, Canada... :) Tele Citronelle isn't there anymore. It's been replaced by Tele Anacoana (or something like that) which has programming in English and in French from what I could see.

I sure would like to get TV5 and RFO too... FTA. I also wondered why TV5 was FTA around the world and not in NA. I must admit I felt cheated.
 
G

gigimarga

Thread Starter
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Mar 22, 2010
13
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Twin Cities, Minnesota
You are forgetting Quebec Canada. If they carry it on their pay providers, any feeds to them will be encrypted.

Thank you.

I am fully aware of TV5 being offered in Canada. We have friends and relatives there who get it as part of their regular cable subscription in Ontario. Too bad they dont care about it. Also, TV5 in Canada is different from other flavors of TV5 and given a choice I would prefer TV5 MONDE EUROPE.

In any case I am sure TV5 Quebec is not fta.

Given the diversity of programming offered in Canada, a few years ago I was tempted to subscribe to satellite offerings there and called a few Canadian providers. They explained me it was illegal to have a street address in USA and a satellite subscription in Canada!!! That's were I found I had fewer friends and relatives there as well.

They appear to be under way to come and buy my house which is depreciating by the day by refinancing a duplex (their half) which does not even have a garage. It appears that, because they will continue to hold on their Canadian residence and use mine only as a summer retreat, they will be able to point my dish to their provider and enjoy.

I was about to write that based on my research, TV5 Quebec is so valuable that it is illegal to watch it in USA. In fact, it is not. The legal venue is to buy/rent a residence in Canada, subscribe from there and then watch even in USA.

I am not aware of any programming in French from Quebec to be fta in ku band. I remember in the past finding references to a few c-band channels from Quebec but for me it is impossible to have a large antenna.
 
G

gigimarga

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 22, 2010
13
0
Twin Cities, Minnesota
Live from PQ, Canada... :) Tele Citronelle isn't there anymore. It's been replaced by Tele Anacoana (or something like that) which has programming in English and in French from what I could see.

I sure would like to get TV5 and RFO too... FTA. I also wondered why TV5 was FTA around the world and not in NA. I must admit I felt cheated.

Thank you.

I do not feel cheated but I was assuming there is some sort of moral standard for business people who will prevent them from offering essentially the same product free to some people and charge others.

I grew up in some sort of a urban farm where my grandmother used to grow vegetables and sell them to customers. We were treating all customers the same. To have offered our produce free to some would have meant that we had some other interest. Even my elementary school teachers were buying apples from us and I was sort of an intermediary. It was unthinkable to give them free apples (maybe that's why one of them has beaten me up for almost one hour based on a false statement made by my best friend). All sorts of nasty things happen when business gets involved.

TV programs are not apples. And yet, I imagine myself being hungry and walking across the market place and seeing my grandmother giving away free apples to everybody. I can see (and hear) them chewing and swallowing tasty fruits of a variety that my grandma would never sell but keep the tree entirely for myself. Even as I write those words my mouth salivates and I feel pain. And yet, when I approach and politely ask for an apple, I am denied. Quite a few around me dont like what they get and are throwing away half eaten apples or some dont even touch them. I am looking around and spot a few apples on the ground and reach for one. I dont want to blame them because they serve a very important function in the market place but the police, the other people and even my grandma is preventing me to get what is essentially free to everybody else.

Even in this scenario I cannot feel cheated by my grandma. The apples are certainly hers, she planted the tree and took care of it every year. I cannot list here any contribution of mine to the well being of those apples other than the fact that I exist. The apples may not care now but there is some possibility that some day I will take care of that tree and continue my grandma's work.

I am looking around and I see other sellers giving away free potatoes to everybody. This time is everybody, no exceptions. Some are giving away free dates. They don't taste like my grandma's apples but I can learn and adapt.

The way I feel is that I was not cheated in all this. The one who should feel cheated is the Apple Tree.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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64
Mankato, MN
Given the diversity of programming offered in Canada, a few years ago I was tempted to subscribe to satellite offerings there and called a few Canadian providers. They explained me it was illegal to have a street address in USA and a satellite subscription in Canada!!! That's were I found I had fewer friends and relatives there as well.

Shaw Direct (Starchoice) and Bell ExpressVu cannot sell to addresses outside of Canada. That doesnt mean one in the US cannot subscribe. All you need is a address in Canada

I have had Canadian TV for about 6 years now (Bell for 3 and Shaw for 3 now) in MInneapolis. I use to have a program broker but now use my "cottage address" ;) In Fort Frances, ON to subscribe.

We have a whole section dedicated to this item
http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=28
 
G

gigimarga

Thread Starter
Member
Mar 22, 2010
13
0
Twin Cities, Minnesota
Shaw Direct (Starchoice) and Bell ExpressVu cannot sell to addresses outside of Canada. That doesnt mean one in the US cannot subscribe. All you need is a address in Canada

I have had Canadian TV for about 6 years now (Bell for 3 and Shaw for 3 now) in MInneapolis. I use to have a program broker but now use my "cottage address" ;) In Fort Frances, ON to subscribe.

We have a whole section dedicated to this item
http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=28


Thank you,

This is true and as I mentioned in another message in this thread, it will take a lot of investment to follow this avenue. Last time I checked, the cottages up north were selling for more than houses in the Twin Cities. Getting that Canadian address is not that easy and I failed. I did try and called the providers in Canada, asked Canadian friends to help me, etc.

Please note that I even have neighbors here in the Twin Cities that are French Canadians and have no access to Quebec TV channels (not even TV5 USA).

Given the research I did so far, it seems to me that it will be legal for you to watch the Canadian tv in Canada at your other residence. However, I believe it is illegal to watch it in USA the way you do. The word "illegal" here is probably in the category where there are established rules banning something but nobody cares to enforce them. Or, another way to explain it is that the spirit of the existing law is violated by finding an ingenious loophole.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
316
64
Mankato, MN
Given the research I did so far, it seems to me that it will be legal for you to watch the Canadian tv in Canada at your other residence. However, I believe it is illegal to watch it in USA the way you do. The word "illegal" here is probably in the category where there are established rules banning something but nobody cares to enforce them. Or, another way to explain it is that the spirit of the existing law is violated by finding an ingenious loophole.

OK....let me try to explain this better

1. It is NOT illegal to possess Canadian TV service in the US according to the FCC
2. The rules state that Shaw & Bell can only sell to Canadian addresses. What you do with it beyond that is your choice
3. Snowbirds take their systems all the time to Florida and Arizona
4. I've called Shaw from Minneapolis with no issues. I've even told them I was in the states right now and they were fine with it

There is no loophole unless you consider using a program broker to get Canadian TV in the US
 
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