VIP 612 HDMI sucks

[Logansneo]

Not to put too fine a point on it! But after switching my (2) 612 units between an HDTV in the front room and an SDTV in the bedroom I realized when the 612 is connected through anything accept HDMI it functions without any problems, at least with my units. But after a week of testing both 612's each with my HDTV through HDMI I found they both exibited the same freezing-up issue in Guide mode as well as when switching from DVR recordings to live TV. Maybe it's something to do with the encryption or the HDMI handshake but this problem needs to be resolved by Dish ASAP. I haven't sent my units back because as I said they both work without fault through every other output, and through the supplied component video cable I am unable to find any discrepancies with regard to HDTV resolution or color fidelity when compared with the HDMI signal, so I will wait until I hear from Dish how they plan on resolving this issue before sending my units back!

Also, it would be nice see a permanent thread started to address the 612 information so that those interested in following any updates, questions, or concerns might be able to without having to scour the forum for all related 612 posts. Just a thought.

 

[rufus]

Using HDMI interface

I'm a directv subscriber but found your thread interesting, ..I had the same problem with picture freeze on the Direct Hr21 using HDMI so tried component video and problem went away. I attributed it to the fact I had to use an adapter to convert the HDMI to DVI and run a separate audio since my TV only has DVI or component video.

 

[Logansneo]

That could be the cause, but since HDMI is such a fiasco as far as standardization anyway it could just be an issue with GENERAL compatibility! I love the incorporation of HDMI being a single cable solution but if I have to endure revision after revision with a patch following each revision, as if this were a high-end graphics card on my PC or something, I'd rather just fall back to Component video thank you very much! Growing pains, but why do they have to be SUCH a PAIN!

 

[8bitbytes]

Not to put too fine a point on it! But after switching my (2) 612 units between an HDTV in the front room and an SDTV in the bedroom I realized when the 612 is connected through anything accept HDMI it functions without any problems, at least with my units. But after a week of testing both 612's each with my HDTV through HDMI I found they both exibited the same freezing-up issue in Guide mode as well as when switching from DVR recordings to live TV. Maybe it's something to do with the encryption or the HDMI handshake but this problem needs to be resolved by Dish ASAP. I haven't sent my units back because as I said they both work without fault through every other output, and through the supplied component video cable I am unable to find any discrepancies with regard to HDTV resolution or color fidelity when compared with the HDMI signal, so I will wait until I hear from Dish how they plan on resolving this issue before sending my units back!

Also, it would be nice see a permanent thread started to address the 612 information so that those interested in following any updates, questions, or concerns might be able to without having to scour the forum for all related 612 posts. Just a thought.

How about details on what you are hooking the HDMI cables to and what brand of cables they are.

Also: What are the results when you run the HDMI diagnostics from the menu?

 

[ncted]

I have complained to DISH about the HDMI handshake issues between my 722 and my Sammy LCD twice. The first time they responded with a stock answer. The second time they failed to respond at all. I got similar response from TWC when I had them. HMDI works great with my PS3 and my AppleTV. It looks like I am watching TV through the eyes of my 99 year-old grandmother-in-law's eyes when I switch the 722 over to HDMI.

Er..what HDMI diags?

Ted

 

[techweb]

FWIW, I've been using a 722 with an HDMI input on my Sony SXRD with zero problems. Also had it running through my A/V receiver without issues.

 

[8bitbytes]

I have complained to DISH about the HDMI handshake issues between my 722 and my Sammy LCD twice. The first time they responded with a stock answer. The second time they failed to respond at all. I got similar response from TWC when I had them. HMDI works great with my PS3 and my AppleTV. It looks like I am watching TV through the eyes of my 99 year-old grandmother-in-law's eyes when I switch the 722 over to HDMI.

Er..what HDMI diags?

Ted

MENU | SYSTEM SETUP | DIAGNOSTICS

Where did the HDMI cable come from and what brand is it?

What model Samsung?

Specifics help determine if this is an EDID problem or a cable problem. Because you are getting good results with component, you really don't need to worry over this but if you want an answer and a solution, you need to generate some diagnostic results and report back real numbers. What are your settings in the 612/722 and what does the receiver report in the tests when connected to the LCD?
Also, the HDMI digital connection is very different than the component analog connection. Most displays need to be recalibrated for each connection. If you are happy with default out of the box settings, you are lucky. Most need to calibrate for a great picture. A Sammy should have a great picture either way so there is a problem somewhere and the whole setup needs to be examined from a technical standpoint. Tech can't solve complaints but they can diagnose numbers.

 

[RickDee]

No HDMI problem here.

I got my first 622 almost 2 years ago and there was no HDMI audio when I hooked it up to my Philips 37" LCD HDTV. I called Dish, they sent me a replacement DVR and it has been working ever since.

It was posted many times that the early 622's had a poorly installed HDMI receptacle, but later editions were corrected.

Could there be poorly installed HDMI receptacles on the 612's?

 

[old corps]

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've been using the cheapest monoprice.com HDMI cables (including one 25') with my 622 & 722 since late last summer and have never experienced a problem.............should've never said that.LOL

Ed

 

[Logansneo]

How about details on what you are hooking the HDMI cables to and what brand of cables they are.

Also: What are the results when you run the HDMI diagnostics from the menu?

The LONG answer:

---Dish Network HDMI Test---

-Info 1-
RxKsv: 00 00 00 00 00 (Invalid!)
TxKsv: 00 00 00 00 00 (Invalid!)

-Monitor Data (Page 1)-
Vendor 1D 4D D9
Product 1D 00 83
Version 1.3

-Info 2- (TV Data)
Manufacture week/year 50/2007
Port: HDMI
Name: Sony TV XV
Supported formats: 720p; 1080i; 480p 480p

-HDCP APP State-
hdcp_state: ENCRYPTED
hdcp_enforce: 0
hdcp_enable: 1
hdmi_connected: 1
attempts/successes: 13/11

-HDMI Hardware Status-
Hotplug Register: 0x01
I2C Register: 0x00
Output Format: HDMI Mode (1)
Audio Format: PCM Mode (0)
Rx Supported Formats: PCM; AC3;
HDMI enabled from TX (STB) side: TRUE
HDMI sensed from RX (TV) side: Lines Inactive

-Raw EDID Block 0- (Checksum OK)
- " " " 1- (Checksum OK)
- " " " 2- (Checksum FAILED!)
- " " " 3- " "
- " " " 4- " "
- " " " 5- " "
- " " " 6- " "
- " " " 7- " "

WHEW!!!! My hands are tired now!

As far as HDMI cable goes I've used a generic Fry's Electronics brand as well as my Uncle's Monster THX HDMI cable with the same eventual results. Freeze-up!

My TV is a Sony KDS-60A3000 SXRD (Lcos) HDTV. Say THAT 5-times-fast, I dare ya'! If you've got any suggestions, please feel free to post 'em as I'd love to utilize the HDMI with my 612 because now I don't have enough component inputs to support the rest of my A/V rig!

 

[Jim S.]

Have you tried either contacting Sony or going to AVSforum.com to ask if there are any firmware updates for your TV? If there's an HDMI compatibility problem isn't not necessarily and/or entirely Dish's fault.

 

[ncted]

MENU | SYSTEM SETUP | DIAGNOSTICS

Where did the HDMI cable come from and what brand is it?

Monoprice HDMI 1.3a Cable male to male 28AWG - 3ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold Plated) - BLACK

What model Samsung?

LN-S4696D

Specifics help determine if this is an EDID problem or a cable problem. Because you are getting good results with component, you really don't need to worry over this but if you want an answer and a solution, you need to generate some diagnostic results and report back real numbers. What are your settings in the 612/722 and what does the receiver report in the tests when connected to the LCD?
Also, the HDMI digital connection is very different than the component analog connection. Most displays need to be recalibrated for each connection. If you are happy with default out of the box settings, you are lucky. Most need to calibrate for a great picture. A Sammy should have a great picture either way so there is a problem somewhere and the whole setup needs to be examined from a technical standpoint. Tech can't solve complaints but they can diagnose numbers.

The problem I experience with the 722 is a washed-out picture. With my PS3 and my AppleTV, I had to choose "Full RGB" and "RGB Low" respectively to solve this problem, but the 722 has no color-space setting that I can change to get around this problem. I used CNET's recommended settings for my model TV which works great for VIP 722 Component, PS3 HDMI, AppleTV HDMI, and OTA -- just not VIP 722 HDMI.

Diagnostic results:

RxKsv: f5 93 52 0a 67 (Valid)
TxKsv: 13 cd e4 12 db (Valid)
Status 1:
VideoFmt =1080i
Timebase=BAVC_Timebase_e1
OutputPort=HDMI
OutputFormat=HDMIMode
MatrixCoefficients=HDMI_RGB
AspectRatio=SAR
AudioSamplingRate=48k
AudioFormat=PCM
Status 2:
AudioBits=16
enable/connect DVI=1/1
enableHDCP=1
State: EDID ACQUIRE=1
State: RX SENSE=1
State: AV START=1
State: HDCP ENABLE=1
Info 1:
Vendor ID 4C 2D
Product ID 3E 02
Serial Number: 00 00 00 00
Version: 1.3
Extensions: 1
Features: 10
Horizontal Size (cm): 16
Vertical Size (cm): 9
Info 2:
Manufacture week/year: 10/2006
Port: HDMI
Name: SAMSUNG
Supported formats: 1080i 720p 480i 480i
Range: v=(23,61), h=(25,68), pc=160
HDCP:
hdcp_state: ENCRYPTED
hdcp_enforce: 0
hdcp_possible: 1
hdcp_permit: 1
hdmi_connected: 1
attempts/successes: 3/1
H/W:
Hotplug Register: 0x01
I2C Register: 0x03
Output Format: HDMI Mode (1)
Audio Format: PCM Mode (0)
Rx Supported Formats: PCM;
HDMI enabled from TX (STB) side: TRUE
HDMI sensed from RX (TV) side: Lines Active
Edid 1-7: Checksum OK (and lots of hexadecimal numbers)

Thanks for your help,
Ted

 

[8bitbytes]

The LONG answer:

---Dish Network HDMI Test---

-Info 1-
RxKsv: 00 00 00 00 00 (Invalid!)
TxKsv: 00 00 00 00 00 (Invalid!)

-Raw EDID Block 0- (Checksum OK)
- " " " 1- (Checksum OK)
- " " " 2- (Checksum FAILED!)
- " " " 3- " "
- " " " 4- " "
- " " " 5- " "
- " " " 6- " "
- " " " 7- " "

Definitely some problems with the connection. Try unconnecting and reconnecting and rerun the test and see if these same errors occur. If they do, try adjusting the plug in the jack by making sure it pushed in all the way or pull it out a little and rerun the test. The HDMI jack on the 622s are surface mounted and not reliable so the 722s may also have some issues. Lift up on the cable to put a little bit of downforce on the plug in the jack on the 722 and run the test while doing this. I have my HDMI cable ziptied to make sure no pressure is exerted either way on the jack.

 

[8bitbytes]

The problem I experience with the 722 is a washed-out picture. With my PS3 and my AppleTV, I had to choose "Full RGB" and "RGB Low" respectively to solve this problem, but the 722 has no color-space setting that I can change to get around this problem. I used CNET's recommended settings for my model TV which works great for VIP 722 Component, PS3 HDMI, AppleTV HDMI, and OTA -- just not VIP 722 HDMI.

Ted

Ted, your diagnostics all looked good. Every device that connects to your display will require some sort of adjustment in calibration on the tv. Some less than others and as you have noted some will work with the same settings with an acceptable display. Your 722 is not one of those. This is why modern displays come with several modes/profiles to allow you to calibrate for each device connected to your tv. You will need to setup another mode/profile on your tv and calibrate it to the 722.

 

[ncted]

Ted, your diagnostics all looked good. Every device that connects to your display will require some sort of adjustment in calibration on the tv. Some less than others and as you have noted some will work with the same settings with an acceptable display. Your 722 is not one of those. This is why modern displays come with several modes/profiles to allow you to calibrate for each device connected to your tv. You will need to setup another mode/profile on your tv and calibrate it to the 722.

I've tried, but to no avail. I guess I am stuck with component for now. Such is life. Thanks anyway.

Ted

 

[Logansneo]

After some further consideration and the information you all have gratefully contributed I am coming to the conclusion that my Sony HDTV's HDMI input could very well be to blame for this whole fiasco! In doing the diagnostic through my 612, and speaking to Dish tech support I feel that my Sony TV's HDMI isn't completing the 'handshake' necessary to close the loop properly for HDCP encryption to be satisfied, therefore after 15-20 minutes of signal my unit locks up and requires a reset. Also if I am to attempt to disconnect/reconnect the HDMI cable after a lock-up my display shows nothing but 'HD' snow. I do not know how HDCP encryption manifests itself through a video display once the encryption is invalidated, but this seems like it may just be how it does. I may have incorrectly slandered E*'s 612 when my Sony KDS-60A3000's HDMI ports might have been to blame. Only time will tell and once I have gotten in touch with Sony and E* gets back to me I hopefully will have a better picture of what exactly is going on!

Thanks again!!

 

[8bitbytes]

I've tried, but to no avail. I guess I am stuck with component for now. Such is life. Thanks anyway.

Ted

I've spent some time reading up on your tv model and its HDMI issues. Apparently Samsung has had some issues with its HDMI implementation on their tvs and on their BD players. For some signal source devices, the image looks much better over component than HDMI. This was noted on your tv from the very day it came out. If your signal source device has the ability to make up for the Samsung limitation, you can make the image look right. If your device does not have this extended ability, the 722 for example, then you are better off with component.

That's too bad considering how expensive it as when it came out.

 

[KAB]

I've spent some time reading up on your tv model and its HDMI issues. Apparently Samsung has had some issues with its HDMI implementation on their tvs and on their BD players.

The OP has a Sony.

 

[8bitbytes]

The OP has a Sony.

Yes, I know, and it doesn't want to talk with his dvr without choking. He is working with the techs and hopefully they can figure out if it is the dvr or the tv that has the issue.

NCTED posted that he was also having issues and his is not one of a HDMI handshake but a colorspace/calibration issue specific to a particular Samsung HDMI implementation.

It's a thread with a subthread running in it.

 

[DEVO]

Another problem child

It is refreashing to see that I'm not alone with this. I have had two ViP612 receivers since I upgraded a week ago, not happy with the customer service with DISH, they said that they have not heard of any problems concerning freeze up, funny(NO). Anyone know what might be the fix for this? Rabbit ears maybe?