Wait for 700w GSM version or get iPaq 6910?

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Kirby Baker

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May 19, 2004
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Whats your thoughts on this? I am really wanting to get a new phone (GSM) for use on Cingular. I was planning to wait for a Treo 700w variant to come out in GSM flavor, but was looking at many places and I wonder if the iPaq 6910 might be better since its available now.

From what I can tell, the Treo 700w does not have 802.11b, 6910 does, both have BT 1.2, 6910 has a 416Mhz processor compared to 312Mhz on Treo, other major points are the same like GPS, memory, expansion card slot, screen size/resolution, OS. Treo is a bit smaller (4.4h x 2.3w) than 6910 (4.65h x 2.8w) but also a bit thicker (.9" vs. .71").

Anyone got thoughts or opinions, or suggetsions? I can have a 6910 in about a week, but a Treo is months out.
 
The big problem I had with the 700w was the memory, I was aconstantly getting the out of memory error.

Other then that it was a good phone.
 
look for alternatives!

Kirby Baker said:
Whats your thoughts on this? I am really wanting to get a new phone (GSM) for use on Cingular. I was planning to wait for a Treo 700w variant to come out in GSM flavor, but was looking at many places and I wonder if the iPaq 6910 might be better since its available now.

From what I can tell, the Treo 700w does not have 802.11b, 6910 does, both have BT 1.2, 6910 has a 416Mhz processor compared to 312Mhz on Treo, other major points are the same like GPS, memory, expansion card slot, screen size/resolution, OS. Treo is a bit smaller (4.4h x 2.3w) than 6910 (4.65h x 2.8w) but also a bit thicker (.9" vs. .71").

Anyone got thoughts or opinions, or suggetsions? I can have a 6910 in about a week, but a Treo is months out.

While I have a gen 3 ipod (I also have an Imac G5 + 2 PC's), I suggest an alternative like maybe the Creative Zen (micro or photo). At least you can change the battery easily! Also even though the Ipod has the cool factor, it does not have really great sound (I use Bose Quiet comfort 2 noise cancelling headphones) Not that I am in love with bose either, but the noise canceling they have is about the best that i have found (especially flying with the Jet engines) That noise actually makes you tired! I now arrive feeling good, even on a 10 hr flight!

BTW: Rumor has it that Apple will replace the new video Ipod with a new model where the entire face is a screen.:eek: (within this month). The $300 Ipod turns into a $400 hundred ipod when you add the charger and Dock that it no longer comes with....Also no remote or case now! My gen 3 included all of those accessories! Apple is brillant when it comes to marketing, but their customer service and quality have gone to He**! A friend a Best Buy says he gets about 10 ipods back a day!!!!!

Luck with whatever you buy
Jeff
 
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Kirby- You need to analyze your needs for a PDA/Phone.

Background- While at CES Scott and I were comparing notes on this ? At first I was all hot on the 700w and so was he. But while Scott was busy with the satellite end of the show, I spent much of my day picking the brains of Microsoft Mobile and engineers with Palm. I had enough hands on experience with the 700w to determine what type of user would be happy with the 700w. Scott informed me his wife bought one for him, I suppose as a welcome home gift. :) Abnyway, I had the awful task of having to break the bad news to him about the 700w, that it was just not stable with lots of apps running. But the good news was, I had located a PDA phone that seemed to have the best of everything we were looking for.

So heres the cut to the chase-
If you are a businessman user of a PDA phone and will use it primarily for data and phone communications, use the Palm included aps and don't plan to add any 3rd party software, then the 700w will probably be the best thing out there. People I have met including my wife who has the 700w, are thrilled with it and it's ability to keep them connected while on the road. It works well with Exchange server (Verizon) because Verizon has addressed the problem areas of push e-mail with a relay server for send out when IT's of some companies have those E server features disabled. I don't know whether other companies have resolved this or not but Verison has. It just took me a couple of weeks to figure it all out. Anyway, the 700w is quite stable for my wife's use as Palm designed it.

If you are a power user, need to play with all sorts of 3rd party aps and need many other functions like GoTop My PC, GPS mapping software, run video and multimedia, need to run Flash and java aps run other browsers and lots of games, and need to store lots of system memory required stuff. then the 700w will drive you up a tree 'oh!' :) Stay away from it. eg. the memory from a cold start on my XV6700 is 24 Mb while the Treo700w is 11. Launch a few aps like your e-mail and a web browser and take a phone call and you are at 4 Mb on the Treo which is too low to send a reply without going into the system settings and manually stopping all aps, and/or rebooting to do a memory recovery. On the XV6700 you can do that, Plus launch media player be listening to some MP3's read Egress RSS agregator of news stuff all while e-mail is being polled every few minutes and answer a phone call with BT, run wifi and phone at the same time downloading a 70 Mb podcast. I have yet to run enough aps that require me to need to reboot. The only time I do reboot is when my Sprite backup program backs up the system every day at 4 AM. So whats the downside of this that the Treo lovers love- I think its ergonomics. form factor. Palm went to great lengths to make their PDA single handed operation for business user who just want to appear high tech and still appear business like. People like Scott and myself USE the pdas for so much stuff we appear more like a propeller head than a business person. :D Also, we need the larger slide out keypad as the Treo keypad is too tiny, at least for me. But Palm has a nice feature in that they allow you to set yp canned responses to e-mail that you can send while talking on the phone to another person if you don't want to conference the calls or use call waiting.

The treo doesn't have wifi but you can buy a wifi SD card, butnthen you really can't download much because you have limited storage memory too. Forget about trying to download any file bigger that 30 Mb. Can't do! With the XV6700, I have already downloaded a 30 minutes TV show at 360Mb! (I have a 2 Gb mini SD card)

The argument for GSM, I think has to do with where you need to use the phone. If you travel world wide often, then you need it. I travel in the US so I discovered, the most reliabble connectivity whereever I've been so far has been Verizon. T-Mobile suffers, In my experience about a 30% dropped phone call rate or no service. Ok if you stay in the city and on the interstate but off that track and it doesn't work. GSM? don't need it because I'm not in Europe.

You mentioned processor speed- The Treo has been overclocked to 600 Mhz but the stability suffers. The XV6700 seems to be stable at 500Mhz too. I haven't talked to anyone who has tested stability of the Treo at 500 Mhz. The real issue with Treo is just use it stock and you'll be happy. Need to do more? get something else and give up that Treo Businessman's look. :)
 
Shawn-

Close cousin but that may be superficial. ie. looks like the 6700 but internally, it is a different phone. eg. only has a 200 Mhz processor, I suspect to increase talk time in exchange for slow response with the software aps. There also is a question about the memory on this as being the same as the Treo at 64 Mb. When you get it, I give you a true memory test to run on it so you can see how it really compares in operation. I would also like to know how the EDGE network works out for internet surfing. Having come from GPRS, I am really impressed with Verizon's EVDO but I understand the EDGE is right up there with it in speed and coverage, but that was from Cingular, tooting their own horn.

IT is also said to have the latest BT with version 2. I'd like to know how that works for you. Can you do voice command from Blue Tooth etc. With 1.2, you can't.
 
Don Landis said:
Shawn-

Close cousin but that may be superficial. ie. looks like the 6700 but internally, it is a different phone. eg. only has a 200 Mhz processor, I suspect to increase talk time in exchange for slow response with the software aps. There also is a question about the memory on this as being the same as the Treo at 64 Mb. When you get it, I give you a true memory test to run on it so you can see how it really compares in operation. I would also like to know how the EDGE network works out for internet surfing. Having come from GPRS, I am really impressed with Verizon's EVDO but I understand the EDGE is right up there with it in speed and coverage, but that was from Cingular, tooting their own horn.

IT is also said to have the latest BT with version 2. I'd like to know how that works for you. Can you do voice command from Blue Tooth etc. With 1.2, you can't.
The MHz of the processor speed isn't apples to apples. It's like Intel vs Power PC. The 8125 uses the TI OMAP 850 processor running at 200mhz and the 6700 uses the Intel X-Scale running at 400mhz. The performance is 'supposed' to be comperable. This being said, I don't expect it to perform like a high end Axiom :). I'd be glad to do the memory test on it.

My 2nd line still has a better part of a year under contract to Cingular blue. I'm migrating to Orange and the 8125 seemed a step in the right directing coming from my current SMT-5600 Smartphone.

The big advantage I see with Edge over the EVDO is just the cost. I'm getting unlimited Medianet for $20/mo. Unlimited EVDO cost more than twice that. If cost isn't a factor, I guess it depends how the coverage is where you are at.

A co-worker just went with the Samsung SCH-i830 on Verizon. He's going to be in Europe for the next 90 days for work and needed a world phone. If he didn't need that GSM ability he would have got the XV6700.

Shawn
 
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I have the phone now. I'm posting this message from it :).

I'd love to do that memory test. So far, so good with this 8125.

Shawn
 
Don and Shawn,

Thanks for the info. Very informative post Don! I can tell you that the EDGE network is MUCH faster than the GPRS network, having originally gone from an EDGE phone to a GPRS phone, and I still hate the slowness!

Shawn, I'd really be interested in your review of that phone.

I'm curious if any of these devices have the ability to run iTunes (does a mobile version exist that isnt tied to a specific phone like the ROKR or SLVR?).

I just want a new gadget. I NEED a new gadget! :) And figured a new PDA with phone capability would be best, and I could retire my old Axim X3i PDA as well.
 
Don Landis said:
IT is also said to have the latest BT with version 2. I'd like to know how that works for you. Can you do voice command from Blue Tooth etc. With 1.2, you can't.
I can and have done voice commanded dialing via BT. To have full voicecommand control you have to buy the software from Microsoft. Many on Howard Forums seem to say it's worth the $40.

The voice tags are pretty much a necessity on this phone. You can dial via the flip-out keyboard but it's not intuative because of the layout (not a number pad). I'm not a big fan of the 'soft' keyboard / number pad at all.

I'm coming from a SMT-5600 SmartPhone. It was a cell phone that also did PDA stuff. The 8125 is more of a PDA that also does phone stuff.

I like the form factor a lot. It isn't much bigger than the old phone and the big screen is VERY welcome. The performance seems faster than the SMT-5600 too.

Once I get more time with the phone I'll post some more.

Attached is a pic of the SMT-5600, the 8125, and a Motorola v551 so you can get an idea of it's size. Even after having seen a bazillion pics of it, it was smaller than I expected.
 
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BTW- The EVDO speed tests have to be categorized into two groups. One for the EVDO PCMCIA card laptop and the second for my XV6700. As you may have guessed the Laptop is much faster.

If I do the speed test online the Laptop with strong RF signal will get 1.0 to 1.2Mbs sustained transfer rates. At the same moment in time the XV6700 will get 0.3 to 0.4 Mbs. On a weal signal, at 1 bar the results will be 0.25Mbs and the laptop will be at 0.4Mbs. I've done many tests and this is where I see the speeds ranging.
By comparison (I still have the IPAQ6315) and it would run at the top end with strong signal- 100kbs and I did many tests with the GPRS PCMCIA card which would run about the same in all side by side tests. Many times the GPRS in weak signal areas would yield between 14kbs and 21 kbs, ditto for both.
I do find it curious that the PDA phone runs speed on EVDO so much slower than the laptop.
So what this tells me is that the sling box may not work right with the EVDO and the XV6700. The laptop will be a different story and I have tesrted it with their conventional software. The sling box hasn't released their PDA cell phone version yet.

Also, btw, the Treo and the XV6700 perform about the same wrt the internet speed tests.
 
I'll need to run some speed tests but that 0.3 to 0.4 sounds about like what I'm seeing on Cingular / EDGE. I have 2 Gig MiniSD card coming for storage / applications and when that comes I'll get a real feel for the speed or lack there of.

I grabbed a pic of the memory manager with nothing running. Does this help with your memory question?

Shawn
 
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Yeah! That's similar to what we get with the XV6700. 700w- different story. The storage side will be at 40 but the program side (right) is at 11 and quickly drops to 6 as you load Outlook. This is why so many are unhappy with the Treo memory management. I suspect they may correct this in the future because this is the single worst screwup on their part for design. You should not have any issues with running yours like a power user.

I have the 2G card, paid $134 for it but had to wait a half month for them to ship it. I understand these are in extremely short supply now.

Also, your storage will go down from your current 40 quickly as to keep a cache for PIE in your windows folders. Can't remember the exact path. The more you surf the faster you will use that up. Some have changed the registry to direct the storage of the cache / cookies/ etc to the storage card. I haven't done that yet. So my storage varies between 38 and 16.

Also, when you get around to installing Voice Command, it is recommended you put it in that space as opposed to install on your SD card due to response time. I have mine installed that way and don't have issues.
 
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