weak OTA signal makes 211k freeze?? (1 Viewer)

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
I tried a search and didnt see anything like this...

Last night I rescanned OTA on my 211k and besides my normal OTA stations I logged 3 low powered stations.
Tuned them in and all were on the signal meter at 65-69. Having a DTVPal I know those numbers are low on the meter. Watched them for a couple minutes to see what they were (religious...yay) :rolleyes:

went to tune to my local sat station and it was gone (not in guide). Checked and 5 of my 7 locals were out of the guide (yes I checked all channels first). Went to 6-0 to see the game and the receiver completely froze. Did a hard reboot (soft reboot didnt even work) and everything came back. I removed those local channels.

Anybody else seen that happen on a 211k?
 

Bobby

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Sep 7, 2003
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All the Dish receivers seem to get funky with OTA channels that are low on the scale or have multi-path issues. It affects both the OTA and the satellite channels. You did the best thing, delete those channels and all will be well.
 

levibluewa

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 25, 2006
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WA, OR, CA
With the 211 receiver I've discovered that a weak ota signal will lock up the receiver, or you get the message Satellite signal has been lost. Re-orient the ota antenna and the sat signal comes back.
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
All the Dish receivers seem to get funky with OTA channels that are low on the scale or have multi-path issues. It affects both the OTA and the satellite channels. You did the best thing, delete those channels and all will be well.

ok cool. Like I say its a couple religious channels and they are at very low power so no worries. All other OTA channels work fine

Thanks for the heads up :)
 

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Re-orient the ota antenna and the sat signal comes back.
the antenna didnt move. Its in the same spot its been for a year now ;)
All the other OTA stations are between 90-100%. These stations are at low low power (they were at low power 15kw til their tower collapsed. Now they're back on the air at like 500 watts) ;)
 

whatchel1

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Sep 30, 2006
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Great High Plains
the antenna didnt move. Its in the same spot its been for a year now ;)
All the other OTA stations are between 90-100%. These stations are at low low power (they were at low power 15kw til their tower collapsed. Now they're back on the air at like 500 watts) ;)

Rule of thumb on a VIP if it's below 70 DUMP IT. It will lock up any of the VIPs. 2nd rule is if it is hard pegging the 100% it could cause just as big of a problem w/ overloading the input.
 

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
Rule of thumb on a VIP if it's below 70 DUMP IT. It will lock up any of the VIPs.
good to know
2nd rule is if it is hard pegging the 100% it could cause just as big of a problem w/ overloading the input.
most peg 100% once in a while. CW is always at 100%
All the main towers are pretty much the same spot (29 miles away)
 

Anony55

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Aug 10, 2010
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USA
All the OTA channels scanned into my 211k are 100% all the time. I wonder if that's why I get a hiccup in the pic once in a while (probably once or twice a night)? Of course, I notice the same thing on sat channels as well, so I figured it was the other problem that users have been noticing.

Cheers
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
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Great High Plains
All the OTA channels scanned into my 211k are 100% all the time. I wonder if that's why I get a hiccup in the pic once in a while (probably once or twice a night)? Of course, I notice the same thing on sat channels as well, so I figured it was the other problem that users have been noticing.

Cheers
Try padding signal level w/ an attenuator of some sort. Cheap quick way it put a 2 or 4 way splitter in line. All my OTA's are max of 8.3 miles or less.
 

Foxbat

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I hope you all realize that the OTA percentages are showing Signal Quality and not strength? 100% is perfect and means that there are no bit errors in the ATSC stream. If you are right on top of an ATSC transmitter that is overloading your tuner, that would cause errors and the gauge would drop below 100%. A reading of 70% means 30% of the data is being lost due to errors, whether they be caused by multi-path, low signal strength, noise, or overloading of the tuner's front end.

I'm not sure what percentage of the signal can be lost before the picture becomes unwatchable, but the regular power stations on my ViP211 are all above 94% and two of my LP stations are 80+%. One is in the mid 70s, but I haven't had any issues with it.
 

pabeader

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Jul 18, 2004
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I hope you all realize that the OTA percentages are showing Signal Quality and not strength? 100% is perfect and means that there are no bit errors in the ATSC stream. If you are right on top of an ATSC transmitter that is overloading your tuner, that would cause errors and the gauge would drop below 100%. A reading of 70% means 30% of the data is being lost due to errors, whether they be caused by multi-path, low signal strength, noise, or overloading of the tuner's front end.

I'm not sure what percentage of the signal can be lost before the picture becomes unwatchable, but the regular power stations on my ViP211 are all above 94% and two of my LP stations are 80+%. One is in the mid 70s, but I haven't had any issues with it.

are you about that??? have you verified with a scope? i truely believe that in the end it doesn't matter, strength or quality. higher is usually better. but just to put my info in the mix. I have two stations that I can get 100% on and they won't lock. I have to move the antenna until they drop down around 85% then they lock and look great. so I would say that 100% is a strength which is including some multi-path. as soon as I adjust to lose the multi, i get lock.
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
I'm not sure what percentage of the signal can be lost before the picture becomes unwatchable, but the regular power stations on my ViP211 are all above 94% and two of my LP stations are 80+%. One is in the mid 70s, but I haven't had any issues with it.
which goes back to the original response above of anything below 70 causes the reciever to freak out

I've got 2 low powered stations that are in the 80's on the meter but they are at the full 15000 watts low powered stations can broadcast at. The 3 in question their tower collapsed in May so they are on a backup tower at like 500 watts. The signal doesnt even come in during the day on the HDTV....at night it comes in fine
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,099
48
Great High Plains
I hope you all realize that the OTA percentages are showing Signal Quality and not strength? 100% is perfect and means that there are no bit errors in the ATSC stream. If you are right on top of an ATSC transmitter that is overloading your tuner, that would cause errors and the gauge would drop below 100%. A reading of 70% means 30% of the data is being lost due to errors, whether they be caused by multi-path, low signal strength, noise, or overloading of the tuner's front end.

I'm not sure what percentage of the signal can be lost before the picture becomes unwatchable, but the regular power stations on my ViP211 are all above 94% and two of my LP stations are 80+%. One is in the mid 70s, but I haven't had any issues with it.
I'm going to have to disagree with part of your summary here. I've seen signal 100% cause what looks like multipath due to over load. As I said all my transmitters are 8.3 miles and less. The one VHF x-mitter of the bunch was always at 100% and it would have break up problems. Now that I have been able to reduce the signal strength level to below the 100% level it has less problems. That is due to input overload. Too much signal strength can cause it to look at the distortion received look like a square wave which looks like a digital signal. That is very much like it is seeing multi-path. Overload in digital can screw you up as much as multi-path which is a secondary of the 1st signal that causes out of phase drop out.
 

dwarren2

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Oct 30, 2003
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Rochester, NY Region
I'm not sure I agree with the thread. At least in regards to a 211 Don't know about the k. I'm located 20 miles east of Rochester NY. I have my ota aimed towards the southwest most of the time in order to get some reception of WGRZ's subchannel, Universal Sports(2.2). Reception is spotted at best. During the day reception falls below receivable levels, but at night I often get high enough levels for viewing. Since the upgrade on my 211 to L563, I have had 1 partial signal loss screen and 0 freezes. I do get the occasional partial loss screen on my 722. But that seems to come in waves. Is fine for several weeks, then every few minutes, then back to normal.
 

pabeader

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Jul 18, 2004
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on the 722 just switch the 2nd tuner to a non OTA channel and that will clear up the occational partial signal loss popup issue. i know it's a workaround but...
 

dwarren2

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Oct 30, 2003
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Rochester, NY Region
on the 722 just switch the 2nd tuner to a non OTA channel and that will clear up the occational partial signal loss popup issue. i know it's a workaround but...

Do you mean a 722k? The regular 722's 2nd tuner does not receive the ota signal. It only receives it's signal from Dish.
 

tempVAdish

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Dec 4, 2005
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Temperanceville, VA
which goes back to the original response above of anything below 70 causes the reciever to freak out

I've got 2 low powered stations that are in the 80's on the meter but they are at the full 15000 watts low powered stations can broadcast at. The 3 in question their tower collapsed in May so they are on a backup tower at like 500 watts. The signal doesnt even come in during the day on the HDTV....at night it comes in fine

Does the 211 have PIP? That's when I get trouble on my 622, have for years. If low sig, or multipath OTA cause the signal loss off sat tuners, I usually find that the PIP source got set to OTA, set it to a sat channel & the issue should go away...
 

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