Weird installation!?

[Mr.Arizona]

Hi folks,

as i mentioned in my "welcome" post, i am not a fan of the "professional" DN installation. So i am going to install a complete new cabling into my house for DN and FTA usage.

I am still planing!!!
The challenge so far:
- T90 with 8 LNBFs
- 1 motorized dish with linear/circular LNBF
- 8 Receivers (one will control the motorized dish)

While reading a lot about all switch/diseqc/22khz combinations i ran over the SPAUN website and came up with a little layout.

Components I used in the layout:
- 9 * SMS281F (2x8 switch)
- 16 * SAR411W (4x DiSEqC relay)
- 8 * SUR 420F (4x universal relay)

Could someone tell me if that is working, if there is a better way, if it's always that "complicated", or do i just go overboard with the components?
Please see attached picture.

Thanks,
Mr.Arizona

 

[Corrado]

Upon reviewing the schematic, how does the DN fit in? I only see FTA receivers. What satellites do you plan on pointing at?

 

[Mr.Arizona]

I just took the first picture i could find on google-images into the chart.
Planned are 2 (maybe 3) DN receivers.
These are just for illustration, like the 2nd dish and the motor.

Satellites are 110, 119 and 129 for the DN subscription.
The other 5 might be just 2 or 3 after checking lyngsat 123, 101, 97... something with FTA. Even if there would be just 1 or 2 channels on one of these birds, i just like the fact that it's possible to get so many with just one T90-Dish.

I am still not sure about the second dish (motorized). Option one is something in the 36" area for KU or a 6' for C-band. I know that 6' is not the biggest dish, but we have some freaky rules in this HOA (Home Owner Association)

 

[Mr Tony]

I'd suggest not using the T90 for the Dish sats. You need reverse polarity LNB's and if you do that, for 3 receivers you would need 3 reverse duals and a SW64 switch

If you use a Dish1000.2 you can get the same thing but only need one wire per receiver instead of 6 wires from LNB to switch and then 3 lines to receivers

 

[Anole]

let me count the ways . . .

Keeping your Dish Network stuff separate from your FTA stuff, is a real winning plan.
And for one thing, the chance the Dish receiver can work through your arbitrary switch matrix is improved.
With this layout, a Dish receiver would not work at all.
Also, removing three LNBs from your FTA switching matrix, frees up space for real FTA birds, and makes switch layout and design easier.

I took some time and went to the Spaun site to look up the hardware you listed.
It would have been a bit easier if the devices has been labeled for function on the drawing, but I'm working that out . . .

- 9 * SMS281F (2x8 switch)
this is a basic 2x8 unpowered multi-switch

- 16 * SAR411W (4x DiSEqC relay)
site did not list this device - found it, standard 4:1 diseqc switch

- 8 * SUR 420F (4x universal relay)
this is a diseqc uncommitted 4:1 switch, requiring diseqc 1.1 commands

Okay, remind me to never go to that site again! Talk about being difficult to find things!

I'll leave the details to others, but suffice it to say, a more attractive and workable layout, would be to consider some 8:1 diseqc 1.1 switches.
We have threads and reviews of a couple.
Didn't deal with 'em in the Switches Simplified thread though, as it was more geared toward beginners.
Your layout is well beyond "beginner" -

Also, for any such system, I'd want powered multi-switches.
I've thought long and hard about using 4x8 multi-switches, to reduce the hardware count.
(found some on a Sadoun deal recently, but didn't study their specs)
Problem is, of course, switching between the two LNBs on the 4x8 uses 22khz, and that means you couldn't use Universal LNBs, should that be necessary.
Probably not a major problem, but a point to be considered.

Good to talk this out and see what other ideas the guys come up with.
Never know what'll turn up! - :up

edit: just found something. Your dual-lnb over on the motor, requires more thought.
It needs to be treated as two LNBs, and possibly mapped through your switch matrix, using two of the eight positions.
Or not, as you see fit. But it needs to be dealt with.

another idea: It just dawned on me that for eight LNBs you don't really need 8:1 diseqc switches.
If you expand this idea to use 4x8 multiswitches, and eight 4:1 diseqc switches, you can run eight LNBs to eight receivers.

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Getting DN of the T90 might be a good idea, but how about rain fading; even if we don't have much rain here in Phoenix?

One thing i couldn't figure out so far is how the "switch-capability" for the 1000.2 works. There are 3 LNB's and 3 cables. How can i connect 4 receivers without loosing one or the other L/R combination or a whole bird while using a switch (DPP44?)?
AND
what switch/diseqc-matrix is a DN receiver capable of?


True, SPAUN doesn't have the best website. But they have lot's of quality stuff.
I am not afraid of paying a little bit more to get GOOD quality. (less dB loss, etc.)

Right, powered switches... I forgot about that!

But the DN-site of my "arbitrary switch matrix", which needs some improvement , should still go to the whole matrix, in case i want to move a receiver from room A to room B without reconnecting all cables in the attic.

Ok, i will do some research regarding 4x8 switches (powered) and the 22khz problem.

Thanks! :up (...and back to the drawing board...)

 

[Mr Tony]

One thing i couldn't figure out so far is how the "switch-capability" for the 1000.2 works. There are 3 LNB's and 3 cables. How can i connect 4 receivers without loosing one or the other L/R combination or a whole bird while using a switch (DPP44?)?

the switch is built in and the receiver usually can figure it out. The 1000.2 allows 4 satellite slots. 3 are on the dish (110,119,129) and you can add 148 or 61.5 if you want. If you add a switch, THAT becomes the switching mechanism. The internal switch is bypassed. Whay you want ot use a 44 switch with a Dish1000.2 is beyond me...unless you go bigger than 4 boxes

AND
what switch/diseqc-matrix is a DN receiver capable of?

what do you mean?

 

[Mr.Arizona]

Iceberg,

i don't want the DPP44 i was just curious how this works, because whenever i try to figure out how the "switching" with the 1000.2 works, i got the DPP44 installation manual.

What I mean is: So far i couldn't find much information about the DN receivers, so i don't know at which "level" of switch-matrix, like my first idea (see first post), they are not able to switch to the right signal.

Anyway, I'm right now on a simpler way to get the project going.

btw... what will happen if i have an LNB without 22khz and i send a 22khz signal to the LNB? I guess nothing, right? Should work without any problems, hopefully.

 

[Mr Tony]

i don't want the DPP44 i was just curious how this works, because whenever i try to figure out how the "switching" with the 1000.2 works, i got the DPP44 installation manual.

I honesty dont know. You might wanna ask that in the DIsh forum.

What I mean is: So far i couldn't find much information about the DN receivers, so i don't know at which "level" of switch-matrix, like my first idea (see first post), they are not able to switch to the right signal.

The dish box knows what satellites to look for. If the switch matrix isnt set up properly it wont find it. So if you had 110,119,129,148 on a DPP44 switch it would find the sats (as long as their aimed). But if you hook up 110,119,129 and say 123 port 4 will show X and probably screw up more than just that. I did an install where we accidentally had a non dishpro LNB for 61.5 plugged into a DPP44 (110,119,129,61.5) and when we did the switch test it made 119,129 and 61.5 all show X for some reason..so the dish box is kinda smart but not really

btw... what will happen if i have an LNB without 22khz and i send a 22khz signal to the LNB? I guess nothing, right? Should work without any problems, hopefully.

if its a standard LNB correct