What do I have? What can I get?

[idiamond]

This setup from the pictures was passed on me. What do I have and what can I get?

I live in the U.S. Northeast and have many tall mature neighbor trees that limit my satellite options from just a few degrees range, say from 61.5 W (best) to 82.0 W (questionable).

Are any of the LNBs capable of picking up EchoStar 3 or other satellites within this range? Which LNB should I be using?

I have a DVB-S card with ProgDVB that show me high Signal Strength but zero Quality using angles from satcalculator.freehostia.com. (Would probably have more luck if I knew which LNB would give me best results.) Also have an inexpensive Petra Satellite Finder Meter that I can't get off zero either.

Am willing to order a DiSEqC switch and a H-H motor if they will help and are compatible.

Help, help, help. Thx

 

[Mr Tony]

oof...with that small range the one positive is you have 2 satellites (SBS6 & AMC5) with a fair amount of feeds.

The LNB that says FSS is the one that will work. In the 4th picture that is the one on the far right. You should be able to get
72,74,79 with no issues as long as you have a good line of sight.

 

[Anole]

It's called a SuperDish 121, from Dish Network.
It's designed to receive 110 and 119 circular, and 121 linear.

The LNBs are bandstacked, meaning you don't change the voltage to them to switch between vertical and horizontal polarization.
Both polarities are available all the time.

What sort of receiver are you planning to use ?
edit: oh, a DVB card... that'd be difficult to use to align with... but it'll work.

Here is a list of satellites, and what is on them.
You can look for birds by location or by language.
Or, you might find TheList here on our server to be more to your liking.

To get started and receive any of these linear satellites, a direct connection from the FSS LNB Iceberg mentioned above to your receiver is all you need.
I wouldn't worrry about motors, switches, or other things 'till I got it going.
Then, if you want to delve further into FTA, you'll probably be anxious to get a more suitable dish.

 

[idiamond]

Based upon Iceberg's post, using a plumb mast and proper dish elevations, I still had no luck getting signal quality off zero. I set the azimuth to each of the satellites Iceberg indicated and backed off the azimuth bolts so they were still tight but just loose enough to move the dish side to side from behind at a slow rate of about one second per one angle of sideways movement. Also tried repeating the slow side to side movement using nearby dish elevations. Should this procedure normally result in at least getting the signal quality somewhere off zero - even if further fine tuning is needed for TV viewing?

With 80+ signal strength on the FSS wire, but zero signal strength, is it possible the LNBs aren't working properly or are too old or anything? Could there be say cobwebs, condensation or harsh weather aging that would prevent the LBNs from working properly?

Could the original LBNs be replaced with newer LBNs on this setup?

Anole, what makes this setup less suitable - the LBNs or the actual dish (shape or size)?

 

[Mr Tony]

The Superdish is kinda on the small side...you need a 30" dish for KU Band.

The one thing with the Superdish is the H frequencies are different than normal because the LNB is bandstacked. V polarity is the same regardless

What I would try is to aim at 72W. Lots of vertical transponders there

 

[Anole]

Anole, what makes this setup less suitable - the LBNs or the actual dish (shape or size)?

As Iceberg indicated above, the dish is a little toward the starter-size .. but you can get your feet wet.
Lots of guys might use those or smaller for specific birds or applications, but you wouldn't really suggest a SuperDish as the first dish for a beginner.

And as we both said, that one FSS LNB is more complicated for a beginner to get going.
It's do-able, but getting mastery of a DVB card, bandstacked LNB, unfamiliar software, and all, is a real big hill to climb . . . all at once.

Unless your LNB appears to be water damaged from looking at it, I'm sure it's just fine.
The reason you don't get a signal with quality, is because:
- you aren't aimed properly
- there might be something in the way of the bird you are trying to get
- the dish "looks" about 22..25º higher than it appears, and that can lead to mistakes
- you may not have the software configured right (that's one major biatch for the first time!)
- you could have a connection / cabling problem (that's why we don't suggest any switches nor motors for the first setup)

In short, everything has to be setup perfectly to get your first signal.
For instance, if you could somehow plug your computer into a buddy's working LNB/dish, that'd teach you a lot.
Or, if you knew someone with a fancy (hundreds of dollars) satellite finder and had him align your dish, then you could concentrate on the computer/software.
Not trying to discourage you, but it'll get a -lot- easier after you get that first signal.

 

[idiamond]

With all the pointing I've done during the weekend and using satcalculator.freehostia.com with two different independent gauges from the satellite finder and software bar graphs - it seems like I should have at least seen an indication of something momentarily over a zero quality reading.

The LNBs appear to have some condensation drops of water on the inside of the plastic covering and I have absolutely no knowledge of this particular Superdish's history. Starting to assume the LBN may not be functioning properly and/or that I should order a larger dish.

How exact do my angles need to be for momentarily meter activity with slow manual movements assuming I'm at least close? Say my elevation was off 0.5 degree but everything else was accurate - should I see something over zero on signal quality?

 

[Anole]

If you'll put your zip code into this calculator, and find your way to the page that gives you a full sheet listing all the birds and aiming directions, you should have something to start with.

Use the Magnetic Azimuth numbers (and a compass) to aim.
I don't assume I can get that right within plus or minus 3 ... 4 degrees.
Maybe you are better.

As for elevation, assume a dish can be off a couple of degrees from its markings.
And that's only if the pole is plumb.
If it's not, then ya gotta take that into consideration, too.
One more variable.

There should be no condensation inside the white triangular cover to the two feedhorns.
Ya might be able to pop it off , dry it out, and snap it back on (or leave the cover off).
If there is actually any water droplets inside the horn or that feed tube to the LNB-proper, dry that out by a good day's baking in the sun.
If ya shake it and it sloshes, well . . .

You really need the receiver set to listen for a hot transponder of the bird you are attempting to capture.
The receiver should be beside the dish, so you can see exactly what you are doing.
Expect the receiver to not respond too quickly as you move the dish.



As an absolute backup plan...
You could get one of those $10 DBS sat meters, hook it to the 119º circular LNB right beside your 121º, and ...
...shoot for some of the DBS circular birds.
They'd be easy to find. Here's a list of 'em.
The receiver only supplies power to the meter and LNB for this test.
Then, knowing where they are, you could interpolate how to find the FSS satellites.
Plus, you know those two LNBs aim 2º apart.

Hope that gives some encouragement.

 

[Tron]

I agree, a Superdish with all of the difficulties associated with its particular setup, combined with a DVB PCI card, which is next to impossible to use to aim a dish, is a very difficult first step.

First of all, I would suggest a set-top receiver to compliment the DVB PCI card. This will, along with easier dish aiming, give you blind scan capability. There are receivers that can be had rather cheaply these days, even with blind scan.

 

[idiamond]

You guys have good knowledge and have convinced me the better path would be to replace the Superdish. Ultimately I'd like to have a single dish that can pick up an assortment of satellites.

A Winegard 76cm or 1 meter seem to be popular with high quality. The 76cm size is nice although the 1 meter is rated for higher winds and assume would be better for reception. A GeoSatPro 90cm also seems to be in the same class of popularity and quality. (Comments welcome)

The Invacom QPH-031 sounds like a top line LBN providing maximum variety signal reception. Is the marketing hype genuine?

Would want something like a DS41 DiSEqC Switch 4x1 to select the ports on the Invacom QPH-031, correct? Can a 4-way 5 Mhz - 2.3 GHz splitter be used as a combiner with the Invacom QPH-031 as an alternative?

After finding my first satellite with signal quality - a Digipower SG2100 motor seems like it might be a good choice to start getting additional satellites. Would this motor be a proper fit with the rest of these components?

 

[turbosat]

You may want to read the information on the motors carefully, if you opt for the 90cm dish, which should be a good size. They have recommendations on which motors can safely handle what size dish, and whether the 2100 can do 90cm dish or bigger.

 

[Anole]

I'd like to see you become an FTA convert, and have a successful experience with it.
Getting a bigger dish and a fancy Invacom, although great ideas, won't get that first signal for you.

When you are watching something (anything) then you'll probably have the bug.
And, that's when we can bait you with all the super toys.

Let's say you spend $75-100 on a fancy dish and LNB (reasonable price).
You'd still be up @$%& creek trying to find a bird with that DVB card and computer.

Compare that to spending $75-100 on a modest FTA receiver.
Lots of folks drop in to the forum with some POC receiver and junker dish, and we get 'em going.

Please reconsider my suggestion above in "absolute backup plan".
That'll find you some signal to play with, so no matter what you are using for a receiver, you'll have half the problem solved.

You might want to read our DVB card section for encouragement on finding a signal with your Pci card.


(and no, you cannot use a splitter as described)


dissenting views are more than welcome - - :up

_____________________
Invacom SNH-031 & SKY Mexico DVB321-3, Fortec & 3ABN 36", Mercury II, Satpros DSR500s, Twinhan 102g & StarBox USB.
Thanks to Sadoun & SatelliteAV for good deals, & SatelliteGuys for good reviews.

 

[idiamond]

I mentioned condensation earlier since I could see some droplets on the inside of the plastic cover over the LNB pair. Today I took the plastic cover off and there was a small pool of water inside - more than just condensation.

With everything I've tried based upon reading, the good advice here, and the water pool, I am now most suspect that the LNBs aren't working. The dish has been pointed all over the angles where satellites should be - multiple times. I have also been using one of the satellite finders that was referenced earlier. The sat finder is another primary indicator besides the DVB-S card that has never registered a positive signal quality over zero. Can't help but think that if the LNBs were okay that I should have seen the sat finder register at least something once in all the pointed measured positions tried.

The Superdish setup was passed on to me by someone who had no knowledge of satellites. He was working on a construction home improvement job and was told to discard of it - so he brought it home wondering if it might be worth anything. For all we know perhaps he was told to discard of it since it was known to be non-functional. After the majority of three days spent - my next step will be to get a new LNB that I can have some confidence in.

Reading further the last couple days, the Invacom QPH-031 seems to be recommended often. Haven't seen anything bad mentioned about it so I'll likely get one ordered tonight unless someone can provide welcomed comment why another LNB would be preferred.

Can the Invacom be installed on the Superdish setup as replacement of the original LNB(s)? Or should I just go ahead and order a better dish while I'm at it?

 

[Anole]

That dish and the Invacom LNB were not meant to go together.
Some of the enterprising members here wouldn't let that stop them!
But, you'd need to come up with a mechanical mounting solution.


One thing I've done just to test LNBs, is put one on an 18" dish, use the meter with power from a receiver, and while hand-holding it, move it slowly across the sky.
You have to know generally where to aim, of course!
I found it easy to make the $10 meter scream.

To do that with the hot Dish circular polarized satellites, use the 119º LNB (the one on the long straight pipe) or that individual 110º LNB off to the side.
The minute you can get an indication out of your meter, you'll be off to a great start.
But, be sure to search for circular satellites with the meter.
They are spread well across the arc, and are good signposts for knowing where the other birds are located.

If you insist on getting a more suitable dish, here is an interesting thread to read:
McGuyver and his $50 deal on AzsureShine 36" @ 3ABN:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/102541-good-place-buy-dish.html#post973266

 

[idiamond]

Update:

Received the Invacom but the new dish shipment was damaged. Not wanting to wait, removed the original Superdish LNBs and rigged up a custom attachment for the Invacom on the Superdish arm.

Got my first satellite! Using the satellite meter was fairly confident that a satellite was located since if I put my hand in front of the LNB the satellite meter tone would stop - move hand out of the way and tone was on.

Next had some difficulty with software however was determined to get it working after believing that the dish was set properly.

More to learn although wanted to say many thanks to all who replied to this thread. Cheers

 

[Anole]

We are all rooting for you.
Any idea which bird you got your first signal from?

 

[idiamond]

The green channel welcomes me to 61.5