What Happens To Old Dish Satellites (Do They Just Remain In Degrading GEO)?

[FCom911]

Here's a question that just doesn't pertain to Dish, but concerns me as a Dish client...

When a satellite's useful life ends, do they just remain in their position, degrading from their GEO (Geographically Synchronous Orbit, does it take decades for this to happen, what's the timeline), or do they simply remain, for the most part as drifting space junk, polluting the space environment, creating dangerous environments for other existing satellites and manned missions?

Why aren't owner's required to maintain a certain amount of fuel to drive the failing, or simply ineffective satellites out of orbit and burn up on reentry in the atmosphere, thus freeing up real estate (slots) and reducing potential conflicts and danger?

 

[CJPC]

Owners are required to retain additional fuel to move the satellite to a "junkyard" orbit if I recall, however with some older satellites, they dont have seperate systems to do this, versues just the main computer (so to speak), so if the computer dies, they can not move the sat to a junkyard orbit, it just stays in place.

 

[jwgreen68]

You're worried about freeing up real estate in space? OMG!! LMAO!!!!!

 

[FCom911]

Is the 'junk yard orbit' lower than existing GEOs, do they remain there indefinitely, or do their orbits degrade as well, eventually?

Does moving them to the 'junk yard orbit' eliminate them from drift and creating potential hazardous issues for other types of missions (manned and unmanned)?

Is there any intent on trying to destroy these satellites by pushing them into reentry?

I understand, the military tests in destroying these satellites creates thousands of pieces of space junk that has to be tracked, forever, therefor, clearly not a viable option.

What sparked my curiosity...? Recent failures, and I took my 8 year old daughter to see 'Wall-e' (I thought it absolutely excellent!), and the vision of space junk orbiting the Earth, in the distant future (and understand, was clearly exaggerated), but did make me think... what does happen to satellites, etc, and what about their accumulations?

 

[Mr Tony]

most satellites that go to the "junkyard" go into an "inclined orbit" so unless you have the ability to do that, you can't see those sats

 

[FCom911]

I didn't know what 'Inclined Orbit' meant.... so, for the rest of us...

Inclined Orbit

(Wikipedia) A satellite is said to occupy an inclined orbit around the Earth if the orbit exhibits an angle other than zero degrees with the equatorial plane. This angle is called the orbit's inclination. Special case: geosynchronous inclined orbit

A geostationary orbit occurs when an object (satellite) is placed approximately 37,000 km (22,300 miles) above the Earth's equator with the characteristic that, from a fixed observation point on the Earth's surface, it appears motionless. A satellite is in an inclined orbit when its orbital plane is tipped some number of degrees from the horizontal defined by the equator. In the case of an inclined geosynchronous orbit, although the satellite remains geosynchronous (that is, completing one orbit around the earth every 24 hours), it is no longer geostationary. From a fixed observation point on Earth, it would appear to trace out a figure-eight with lobes oriented north-southward once every twenty-four hours.

A geostationary orbit is not stable. It takes regular manoeuvers to actively control it. The majority of the fuel spent for this purpose is to counteract the gravitational forces of Sun and Moon which mainly increase the inclination over time. At the end of the satellite's lifetime, when fuel approaches depletion, satellite operators may decide on omitting inclination manoeuvres and only control eccentricity. This could prolong the life-time of the satellite as it needs less fuel. On the other hand the satellite can only be used by ground antennae capable of following abovementioned north-south movement. Before the fuel comes to an end, satellites shall be moved to a graveyard orbit to keep the geostationary altitude free for subsequent missions.

NASA maintains a Java based real-time display of most commercial satellites which can be helpful in visualizing the various orbits.

For a list of other types of orbits, see the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_orbits

 

[FCom911]

You're worried about freeing up real estate in space? OMG!! LMAO!!!!!

The only stupid question, is the one never asked...

 

[jwgreen68]

The only stupid question, is the one never asked...

Never said that it was a stupid question. Just with all the things we could worry about on land and possibly change............

 

[jwgreen68]

Space is boundless. Earth is not.

 

[royd]

You're worried about freeing up real estate in space? OMG!! LMAO!!!!!

As of June 21 2000 2,671 satellites (working or not)
110,000 total objects 1 centimeter and larger

The oldest debris still on orbit is the second US satellite, the Vanguard I, launched on 1958, March, the 17th, which worked only for 6 years.

 

[John Kotches]

As of June 21 2000 2,671 satellites (working or not)
110,000 total objects 1 centimeter and larger

The oldest debris still on orbit is the second US satellite, the Vanguard I, launched on 1958, March, the 17th, which worked only for 6 years.

Given how little we knew about building satellites 50 years ago, I think that using the word "only" is a bit harsh

Cheers,

 

[navychop]

Satellites and junk do collide. Odds of that increase every year.

I suppose the ideal would be an inclined orbit beyond the geo orbit that would theoretically result in a satellite moving further and further from earth. Less fuel is required for the junkyard than to deorbit. Besides, some sats are large enough to possibly have chunks survive reentry.

This applies to all satellites, not just Dish/Echostar's. But a general power failure for the whole sat will render the "separate" system moot.

Some day, we will have to start cleaning up space. Likely long after I'm dust.

 

[Zero327]

Aim em at Direc's satellites and left em fly!

 

[FCom911]

As of June 21 2000 2,671 satellites (working or not)
110,000 total objects 1 centimeter and larger

The oldest debris still on orbit is the second US satellite, the Vanguard I, launched on 1958, March, the 17th, which worked only for 6 years.

The image... its unreal

That is allot of satellites, and space junk

Impressive... and challenging

 

[Smith P.]

Then you should see all that garbage on streets of Napoli, Italy .

 

[whatchel1]

For seeing the tarcking of all the sats.

If you want to see all operating sats go to this link. Then click on the Live 3D Java Tracking Display . This will bring up a small window that can be expanded to full size and see all sats in all working orbits. click on the little dots and find out which sat it is. It can also be set to rotate in real time and times 100 and 1000. NASA - Science@NASA Satellite Tracking

 

[vegassatellite]

Space is boundless. Earth is not.

The Clarke Belt is finite. It's a circle around the Earth. Just like a freeway that circles around a city, you don't want a whole lot of unmanned vehicles driving around on it. If left unchecked, collisions may occur, creating tons of debris that could lead to even more debris. We don't need a man-made asteroid field occupying the Clarke Belt.

 

[whatchel1]

Plans to take care of the junk.

Here's a link to an article put out by Space.com about some of the plans to take care of the junk. It was released May 2002 and I don't know what all has been done since then. SPACE.com -- 'No Littering' Plea Extended to Space Junkyard

 

[DishSubLA]

I believe the FCC very recently set new rules that require operators to have sufficient fuel to move the near death satellites to an even further position for its grave because there is an issue, like the one raised by the original poster, about space junk. A lot of sat operators, including Echostar, don't like this new requirement because it means they will have less fuel available for moving sats to different locations or making corrections to sats while in orbit, etc. In terms of sat fuel capacity, this rule change is pretty significant. I can't recall the numbers, but I'm certain others on this board know them and may share them.

 

[Jim5506]

Unless they de-orbit it (dangerous because it will not all burn up) or boost it out of earth orbit, everything launched is up there littering the sky.

Space debris is becoming more and more of a problem and a hazard.

Remember that stuff may be small but it is moving at 3 km/s and if you aren't in a parallel orbit it is literally faster than a speeding bullet.