What settings in winavi converter convert mpg files created in nextorm to dvds?

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mastermesh

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 18, 2006
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I'm having trouble converting the mpg files created with the nextorm software that came with the dvb world usb device over in to usable dvds that are burnable using winavi converter version 8.0. The files are converting from mpg to vobs but the audio is way out sync. I checked the source mpg files and they are fine. I've tried a number of different settings in winavi but can't figure out which ones I actually need to use to make dvds that don't have out of sync audio. I thought these two programs didn't do any reencoding, but I'm starting to think that maybe they do and somehow I need to figure out exactly which selections to choose to make this work...

I'm pretty sure that just burning a raw mpg file to a data dvd in nero won't let the thing play in normal dvd players...

It's a pain playing with all these different settings to try to find the right one since I'm wasting tons of time waiting for vob files to be created so that I can go and check them to see if audio is ok. If someone knows the right settings, please post them.

I'm reluctant to change any settings in nextorm or mpeg-vcr since they seem to be doing fine when I view the mpg files in the computer.... I'm recording with nextorm, using mpg-vcr to cut out commercials, and now just want to record the stuff in to dvd, but can't until I can get winavi working with the right settings.

Please post if you've done this stuff before and know the settings I need. Thanks. My guess is that it has something to do with the variable speed and audio speed, but can't figure out exactly which one since even changing the settings in winavi to match the properties that I see in winavi property window thingy that's looking at the mpg files isn't helping. My guess is that nextorm records at a weird speed and I need to get winavi to match that but am not sure exactly what the heck I need to select to get a good match.

The exact process I'm using is record in nextorm... cut out commercials in womble's mpg-vcr, then open up that file in winavi to convert from mpg to vob. The conversion process is where the audio is getting out of sync since the mpg files up to that point all have audio that's still all in sync. It's the vobs in the dvd folders that winavi is making that are screwed up. I think the bitrate needs to change or something, but have no idea what to change to since every setting I've tried so far is still messed up.
 
Last edited:

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
12
L.A., Calif.
DVD making, 101

The exact process I'm using is record in nextorm... cut out commercials in womble's mpg-vcr, then open up that file in winavi to convert from mpg to vob. The conversion process is where the audio is getting out of sync since the mpg files up to that point all have audio that's still all in sync. It's the vobs in the dvd folders that winavi is making that are screwed up.
Welcome to my world! :cool:

I hang out on the VideoReDo forum quite a bit.
There, the common problem we see is people getting cranky about their audio sync.
VideoReDo has some crude capabilty to fix it, but the best feature of that editor is that it doesn't -cause- the problem! :eek:
Womble users show up often, with complaints similar to yours.

I also own WinAVI, and have been promoting it on the VideoReDo forum for years.
You are correct - getting the settings just right, without an engineering degree in video, is one helluv a challenge!

Where to start? Where to start?
Okay, here - first, when you load your unedited source video into WinAVI, it brings up a little info box that tells you what the source format is.
That can vary from one satellite to another.
Pick one bird, pick one channel, and tell me what the specs are.
You have to keep the format constant during this test/conversation.
If you flit around from one spec to another, it makes debugging the problem impossible.
Now, what format is it you are working with?
Video: 544x480? 702x480? etc
and what is the audio format and bit rate? * see below

Normally, I use WinAVI in the "convert to DVD" mode.
Press the big DVD button on its start-up screen.
Then, on the next screen that lets you select your output directory and format, make sure the output format is: DVD !
That's a drop-down box, and do not choose any other format.

Next, click the Advanced button
On the DVD Tab, if you've been mucking with things, you might be better served by just re-installing WinAVI to get back to the default settings.
If not, here are some guidelines:
- Constant video quality: select Lower for first test
- Split output file: check
- Size : 1013mb
- Constant Video Size: UNchecked!

for the rest of the settings on that tab, I use:
Set chapter length: check
300 seconds

Target Format: Auto (only if that doesn't work, you might try forcing NTSC mode)
Audio Bit Rate: 192000
Aspect Ratio: Auto ( only if that doesn't work, try 4:3)
Enable DirectAC3: check

On the Encode Tab, leave all settings alone !
and if you've messed with them, put 'em back! :cool:

On the Details Tab, report in your next post what was listed there.
* do a copy 'n paste

If you make a DVD with WinAVI without editing it in Womble, and you are in sync, then Womble editor is the culprit.
Burn a test DVD and try it in your set-top player,
Testing the files on your computer, or playing the DVD on your computer are not valid tests for sync!
... due to the fact people have so many different software players, so many of which are just not right!

If this test DVD is out of sync, then I suspect the source mpeg was out of sync, or WinAVI screwed it up.
(possible, but less likely)

Okay, that's enough for one post.
I'll catch my breath, and you can run some tests and ask some questions.
Next, we'll deal with how to make -
1) good DVDs with this technique
2) DVDs in non-standard format that play fine (much quicker; no winAVI)
3) frame-accurate edits
4) cleaned up video which processes in other steps more easily
5) DVDs with two shows
6) DVDs with menus
7) and more.
 

mastermesh

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 18, 2006
1,987
0
I just reinstalled... hit the dvd button, and open up the mpg file. The movie was recorded off of wgmu on g10r. DVD is selected in the pull down as default. I click advanced. Switched to Lower Quality in Output settings second pulldown... changed split setting to 1013 - sorry, there's no check box, just a pull down that you can type numbers in to... also no constant video size box to uncheck... the first box above Lower Quality pulldown is a pulldown with options as Constant Output Quality, Constant Output file size, and Constant quality by max bitrate. The default is Constant Output Quality. I left it at that....

I don't see a detail tab. There is a File Property Tab... it's showing this on the first mpg file:

===== File Info =====
FileSize : 1497M
PlayTime : 01:28:26.40
VideoCount : 1
AudioCount : 1
===== Video Info =====
Video 0# Stream
VideoCodec : MPV2
VideoWidth : 480 pixels
VideoHeight : 480 pixels
VideoFrameRate : 29.970fps
VideoFrameCount : 0
VideoBitRate : 15000000
===== Audio Info =====
Audio 0# Stream
AudioCodec : MPA1/2
AudioBitRate : 128000
AudioChannels : 2
AudioSampleRate : 48000
-------------------------------
and this on the second:
===== File Info =====
FileSize : 1520M
PlayTime : 01:24:17.472
VideoCount : 1
AudioCount : 1
===== Video Info =====
Video 0# Stream
VideoCodec : MPV2
VideoWidth : 480 pixels
VideoHeight : 480 pixels
VideoFrameRate : 29.970fps
VideoFrameCount : 0
VideoBitRate : 15000000
===== Audio Info =====
Audio 0# Stream
AudioCodec : MPA1/2
AudioBitRate : 128000
AudioChannels : 2
AudioSampleRate : 48000
=============

Here's some screen prints... taken before I changed stuff in the advanced options too much.. I think we may have different versions of the program since you are seeing some different options to check than I am... I'm using winavi video converter version 8.0.

When I open up nextorm and tune in to wgmu the green text that shows up a few seconds on screen indicates that it's 480x480, 29 FS... but I don't know if that applies to just the screen I'm looking at or to the actual recording that nextorm uses. I don't think there's ways to change options in the nextorm encoder, or if there is, I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I think it's recording at that same size and framerate and womble isn't messing with it since winavi is showing in properties
Video 0# Stream
VideoCodec : MPV2
VideoWidth : 480 pixels
VideoHeight : 480 pixels
VideoFrameRate : 29.970fps
VideoFrameCount : 0
VideoBitRate : 15000000
===== Audio Info =====
Audio 0# Stream
AudioCodec : MPA1/2
AudioBitRate : 128000
AudioChannels : 2
AudioSampleRate : 48000
....

Changing the audio settings in DVD Encoder tab to Autio Bitrate of 128000 doesn't seem to help. You'd think that matching it to the audiobitrate of the source mpg file would help, but it's not for some reason.

If I get this all figured out, I should be good to go... but that's a big if... I mainly just record movies off of g10r on channels wgmu, wmqf, and kktu, and wngs. I think all of those are equity stations, so should, in theory, all use the same pixel aspect ratio, and encoder types and stuff... I do occassionally also record some painting shows off of Create Tv, but that's ok to not be in dvd format as I'm the only one in the house with any interest in watching it so can watch them on the computer...

It'd be nice if all dvd players just would play mpg files and not have to have those blasted vob files.

I do have a slight workaround that might work just for my setup, where I play the movie in mpg-vcr on computer and it's sent out to tv in living room through the ati all in wonder and a really long audio cord from computer's soundcard... which would let me just save the mpg files in nero as a data dvd, but I was kinda hoping to be able to actually play the stuff on real dvds as movies, even if the vob files do take up more room to store.


What I really want to do it burn at least two, or maybe 3 movies on one recordable dvd, and have audio all still in sync. Most of the recordable dvds that I have are 4.7 gigs. If I right click some of the mpg files they end up being around 1.48 - 1.45 or so size after editing in womble to cut out the commercials... 1.50x2=3.... 1.5x3=4.5, so you'd think that you could fit 3 movies on to a 4.7 gig dvd, but I think that that's not the case because winavi is expanding the files or something, probably due to file headers in the vobs or something... When I did some conversion of two movies in winavi the other day, it resulted in winavi making two dvd folder structures... one has most of the movies and the other had about 200 mb extra that just had part of the credits on one of the movies...

Is it possible to make video cds and just put the mpg files in and record it all in to a dvd instead of a cd? It might let the mpg files stay as they are after womble, without need for vob files, but I don't think it's possible?!?...

I would do a lot more tests right now, but am recording in nextorm. Most of the movies I record are on Friday Nights, and Saturday and Sunday afternoons. That burns recording burns too much ram to try to edit in winavi at the same time. Sorry about that. If you have recorded on g10r before and convert to dvd with your version of winavi what settings are you using? Knowing that might help me?...

Essentially I'm trying to build a "poor man's video on demand" type of thing... mainly because these movies that are on g10r that are worth seeing are on at times that either my wife or I am at work or are out helping one of our parents with yardwork and stuff. I want to be able to just record these movies, and play em back later when we are both here... super duper high quality isn't really needed since it's more or less just a digital version of a vcr, but having audio that's at least in sync is definitely needed.
 

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Last edited:

Hermitman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2006
420
0
Limestone, Mi
I've seen this problem on other mpg editing programs. I believe the problem occurs when you cut out parts (commercials) of the full mpg. The timestamps of the video and audio become out of sync when rendered straight to the vob files. The easiest solution I've found is to take the edited movie and save it back to a mpg file using the same original settings instead of converting it to vob files. (I hope your program can do this.) This appears to properly re-sync the video and audio. This new, edited mpg file is now ready to convert to vob files and burn to dvd. Good luck.
 

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
12
L.A., Calif.
I use VideoReDo for editing.
It does frame-accurate cuts.
It also has a mode and a feature called Quick Stream Fix (or QSF) which combs through and fixes up the mpeg file.
If the source file isn't too bad, you can just edit and save and the QSF function is applied at save-time.
Works that way 95% of the time (and no audio synch errors) for me.
One of your files should take just a couple of minutes to save.

Now, if there are too many timing errors, glitches, or other problems, and VideoReDo (VRD) can't seek through your file, it may recommend you run the QSF function stand-alone, and then reload -that- into the editor.
This is often the case when I want to import a home-burned DVD from a stand-alone DVD recorder.
They even have a utility for this - it reads your VOB files, applies the QSF function, and joins the files to make one 4gb mpeg file , ready for editing.


What WinAVI does, is up-convert your 480x480 file to 720x480, which is standard DVD resolution.
The quality you select, governs the bit-rate used by the output.
When you upconvert, you can't really get out better quality than you put in, so a too-high-bit-rate, just makes your files bigger and nothing else. :rolleyes:

A number of other formats are supported by about 99.99% of players sold into the market in the last 5 years.
So, I actually author in the 544x480 native format which I record off the bird.
That is roughly about 1gb per hour...
One-hour shows typically edit down to about 42 minutes.
Couple of years ago, I put all six hours of the first season of The 4400 onto a single DVD, with a menu.
Of course, I had to trim the closing credits on each show, and toss out the recap of the previous episode...
Play-back quality and resolution was -identical- to watching it off the air.


Couple of random comments:
- you are right - I am running WinAVI ver 7.7. Guess I haven't upgraded lately.
- your actual video bit-rate is not 15mbps; that's the maximum; it's really down around 3mbps.
- your 1.5gb files get blown up by WinAVI to take up more room - that's why you can't get two on one disc.
- some DVD players -will- play mpeg files!
. . I have an RCA 290 from Walmart for $80, that does every#$%^ingthing!
. . . there are $40-50 Philips players which will get by - make sure they support Ultra DivX 6.
- Womble has got to go.
- Get an evaluation copy of VideoReDo, and a free activation key to fully test it for a couple of weeks.
- I'm an Alpha tester for a VRD upgrade that includes authoring.
. . should be out this summer, and hopefully not add much to the price.
. . . I've been using it for a month, including twice this weekend to make movie DVDs... :up
 

WyrTwister

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 6, 2004
769
0
I'm having trouble converting the mpg files created with the nextorm software that came with the dvb world usb device over in to usable dvds that are burnable using winavi converter version 8.0. The files are converting from mpg to vobs but the audio is way out sync. I checked the source mpg files and they are fine. I've tried a number of different settings in winavi but can't figure out which ones I actually need to use to make dvds that don't have out of sync audio. I thought these two programs didn't do any reencoding, but I'm starting to think that maybe they do and somehow I need to figure out exactly which selections to choose to make this work...

I'm pretty sure that just burning a raw mpg file to a data dvd in nero won't let the thing play in normal dvd players...

It's a pain playing with all these different settings to try to find the right one since I'm wasting tons of time waiting for vob files to be created so that I can go and check them to see if audio is ok. If someone knows the right settings, please post them.

I'm reluctant to change any settings in nextorm or mpeg-vcr since they seem to be doing fine when I view the mpg files in the computer.... I'm recording with nextorm, using mpg-vcr to cut out commercials, and now just want to record the stuff in to dvd, but can't until I can get winavi working with the right settings.

Please post if you've done this stuff before and know the settings I need. Thanks. My guess is that it has something to do with the variable speed and audio speed, but can't figure out exactly which one since even changing the settings in winavi to match the properties that I see in winavi property window thingy that's looking at the mpg files isn't helping. My guess is that nextorm records at a weird speed and I need to get winavi to match that but am not sure exactly what the heck I need to select to get a good match.

The exact process I'm using is record in nextorm... cut out commercials in womble's mpg-vcr, then open up that file in winavi to convert from mpg to vob. The conversion process is where the audio is getting out of sync since the mpg files up to that point all have audio that's still all in sync. It's the vobs in the dvd folders that winavi is making that are screwed up. I think the bitrate needs to change or something, but have no idea what to change to since every setting I've tried so far is still messed up.




If you do not get it to work , try Nero Vision Express , that is what I use to create DVD's .

Wyr
 

mastermesh

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 18, 2006
1,987
0
I've got an older version of Nero, version 5.5. It can burn once you get the vobs and stuff, but can't convert mpg to vob itself. Newer versions might. I downloaded videoredo, and tried to click the request request a trial key option in help and it didn't bring up a webpage or anything. Anyone have the url for that?
 

Anole

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 22, 2005
11,819
12
L.A., Calif.
trial key:
- sometimes their server might be down or getting backed up - try again

nero vision suite:
- it consists of several modules besides just the Burning ROM that burns discs.
Their authoring program is very picky, and will automatically up-convert your source to 720x480, enlarging your files and wasting time.
Some folks use it - I don't recommend the suite, but do use their Burning ROM all the time.
 

Larry1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 24, 2005
1,588
128
Port Hope, ON Canada
Remember that when you re-encode any of your video files, that you will loose some of the video quality. There are numerous low priced DVD player that will play the mpeg video files captured from satellite without the need to re-encode. (and save you a lot of time also) You may not notice the difference of re-encoding your files and may be quite happy with the results. Also as Anole has suggested, try VideoReDo for editing the start, end, and cutting out the comercials from your raw video files. It works extremely well in correcting stream issues to prevent audio / video sync problems. Even just running the video files through VideoReDo to correct the streams before re-encoding or editing in another program may solve your sync issues. They have a free trial for you can test it out before you purchase it. I must say though that VideoReDo was the best software purchase I have ever made. They are very responsive to any support questions and do truely work with you to solve any issues you may have with their program. I know I sound like a comercial for VideoReDo, but just try it for yourself and make your own judgement.
 

grusome

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 2, 2006
184
0
Another suggestion. A freeware app called DVDFlick. Takes a bit of time and does not offer any real authoring tools, other than some very basic stuff. BUT, it has taken almost every mpeg recording I have thrown at it and created a dvd. It even includes IMGBurn and will launch it and burn the dvd after conversion. I have yet to have a sync issue with it.
grusome
 
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