Whats the deal with "HD Lite"?

[guffy1]

Some of you know what I mean Im sure...

I switched from Charter Communications recently to D*..

The HD on D* sucks compared to Charter...

Now Im finding out that the max D* resolution for HD viewing is 1280x1080..

Well, if you have a 1080i HDTV that is a major screw job and Im real dissapointed... True HD resolution is 1900x1080..somewhere in that neighborhood...

Obviously thats what I was gettin from the cable company, becasue it was way better on every channel....

Anyways my question?

Does E* feature HD Lite as well?

And more importantly, how about BEV?

I cant deal with this watered down HD...How does one go about finding out what providers are providing the real thing?

Mostly I wanna know about BEV..

Any info appreciated...

Tx

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

Where do you live that you have good charter TV? I live in the Madison Wi market and they don't even offer DHD on there lineup. NO Fox for football, onlyl have ESPN hD, HDNet, and HDNEt Movies. Their STB did not even have DVI output's when I tried it last year.

I agree that D* needs to up the PQ and offerings. Both are not up to par, but I was surprised to hear charter was better.

 

[BFG]

No E* does not screw with HD resolutions, I don't think BEV does either

Cable HD usually looks better because in most cases the signal is just passed through, whereas with satellite, it gets re-encoded and re-compressed.

 

[fredfa]

If HD is so important, why would you switch from one provider to another without checking the picture quality first?

 

[guffy1]

If HD is so important, why would you switch from one provider to another without checking the picture quality first?

Well, I know its my own fault, but Im just a rookie here...

I had no idea...

I did not know it was legal for D* to falsely advertise their product...silly me..

I always thought D* was a reputable company to business with, now I know I was very sadly mistaken...

I read their site thoroughly, and theres no mention anywhere about this HD lite crap...

I got ripped off is basically what it boils down to...

 

[BFG]

HD lite is more propaganda than an actual problem.

If you want to get picky:

HD standards start at a minimum of 921,600 pixels

D* 1080i channels are 1280x1080 so that's 1,382,400 pixels, still HD

 

[vurbano]

HD lite is more propaganda than an actual problem.

If you want to get picky:

HD standards start at a minimum of 921,600 pixels

D* 1080i channels are 1280x1080 so that's 1,382,400 pixels, still HD

921,600 pixels for progressive scan 720p, Not interlaced 1080i.

If you want to be accurate HD standards start at 2,073,600 pixels for 1080i

It is not propoganda. When combined with D*'s bitrate slashing many users at AVS forum report HDnetmovies looking no better than a DVD.

 

[pradike]

HD lite is more propaganda than an actual problem.

If you want to get picky:
HD standards start at a minimum of 921,600 pixels
D* 1080i channels are 1280x1080 so that's 1,382,400 pixels, still HD

Yes, its pure propaganda.

921,600 pixels for progressive scan 720p, Not interlaced 1080i. If you want to be accurate HD standards start at 2,073,600 pixels for 1080i

It is not propoganda. When combined with D*'s bitrate slashing many users at AVS forum report HDnetmovies looking no better than a DVD.

It makes you wonder if these folks have ever seen HDTV on D*TV - because none of the dozens of folks I know nor I have experienced the goofy things they continuously point to.

At the end of the day, The term HD LITE is purely a bogus cutesy phrase coined by a short list of Voom user propagandists to self-edify themselves on how great Voom is in comparison to other sat services - while ironically their Voom is a terminally ill service itself. There are numerous HDTV and other message boards being repeatedly propagandized by the same (see immediate quote above) people who sing this lame song over and over again - perhaps American Idol is in their future?

The only problem with that mis-information and clear distortion of the truth is that it misleads newcomers to the HD world. Rest assured, these folks are relentless in their propaganda messaging, and flame anyone who even thinks to challenge them.

The FACT is that D*TV broadcasts in true HD format and pixel count, according to the standards set by the CEA council and others. It is the same standard DISH network and most cable providers use. What comes into understanding this matter is that D*TV has temporarily ramped up the quantity of new National and other HD channels through compression techniques that give the purists the heebee geebies. To the other 99.5% of the American public, this compression is not noticable.

The key, as well, is that it is temporary - pending the launch this year of 2 new powerful satellites that will substantially add bandwidth to the D*TV arsenal - and in addition, a new higher-standard MPEG4 compression method will allow D*TV to take sole position of the HD bandwidth leadership, as well as expanded network and local HD channel content. It will also provide the means to add additional new HD channels (such as TNT HD and ESPN2 HD) as their HD content reaches mainstream levels.

Don't be misled by these propagandists. They obviously have way too much time on their hands to continue singing their bogus tunes and moving from message board to message board doing the same dance every place they can.

 

[hdtvtechno]

directv HD bit rates http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

 

[pradike]

directv HD bit rates http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

Everyone knows that bitrates vary by time, location, weather conditions, etc.

You can take these samples til the cows come home for every service, and never get 2 readings the same.

 

[hongcho]

But average is average.

Unless the program contains large sections of static images, you can't really dismiss the reduced bitrate.

The PQ is a function of the resolution, the bitrate, the source and the encoder. The reason DirecTV can go on without much (most don't seem to care) severe complaints from the customers with the reduced bitrate is because they also reduced the resolution (i.e., 1280x1080i).

Hong.

 

[hdtvtechno]

mmm lets all see what happens with MPEG 4

 

[EEJay]

Everyone knows that bitrates vary by time, location, weather conditions, etc.

Then why are the bitrate samples consistently low for ShoHD, HBOHD, UHD, and HDNet Movies?

You can take these samples til the cows come home for every service, and never get 2 readings the same.

Yep, you're right, the samples aren't the same. But the bitrates for the channels I listed above are all below standard.

No, I'm not a VOOM customer. Never have been, probably never will be. I've just noticed a decline in DirecTV's PQ beginning several months ago. And it's not just the VOOM customers using the phrase HD Lite.

Anxiously awaiting MPEG4...

 

[pradike]

Then why are the bitrate samples consistently low for ShoHD, HBOHD, UHD, and HDNet Movies? ...

Because some channels were temporarily reconfigured to accomodate new programming. This will be resolved with the new sats a few months from now. Personally, I've seen very, very nominal PQ changes for some time - my HD PQ seems to be better than the DISH HD and Comcrap HD customers/neighbors who have seen my HD and then said so themselves.

.....And it's not just the VOOM customers using the phrase HD Lite.

They just coined it first - oh boy!

 

[beast37799]

i wonder how they are able to read the bitrate anyway. and second i get both channel 80 and wcbs ota and i dont notice any difference in hd programming quality

 

[Bear]

Everyone knows that bitrates vary by time, location, weather conditions, etc.

Location? huh? Someone in Dallas is pulling down a completely different signal from the same transponder on the same satellite as someone in LA? There are localization issues that can have a realtively minor impact, but dismissing the guy's measurements as being location-specific is a little too much boosterism, dontchathink?

As for how they take the measurements, it all basically comes down to total file size divided by total time in seconds. How one gets one's hands on the file is a topic for another discussion forum.

 

[vurbano]

Yes, its pure propaganda.


It makes you wonder if these folks have ever seen HDTV on D*TV - because none of the dozens of folks I know nor I have experienced the goofy things they continuously point to.

At the end of the day, The term HD LITE is purely a bogus cutesy phrase coined by a short list of Voom user propagandists to self-edify themselves on how great Voom is in comparison to other sat services - while ironically their Voom is a terminally ill service itself. There are numerous HDTV and other message boards being repeatedly propagandized by the same (see immediate quote above) people who sing this lame song over and over again - perhaps American Idol is in their future?

The only problem with that mis-information and clear distortion of the truth is that it misleads newcomers to the HD world. Rest assured, these folks are relentless in their propaganda messaging, and flame anyone who even thinks to challenge them.

The FACT is that D*TV broadcasts in true HD format and pixel count, according to the standards set by the CEA council and others. It is the same standard DISH network and most cable providers use. What comes into understanding this matter is that D*TV has temporarily ramped up the quantity of new National and other HD channels through compression techniques that give the purists the heebee geebies. To the other 99.5% of the American public, this compression is not noticable.

The key, as well, is that it is temporary - pending the launch this year of 2 new powerful satellites that will substantially add bandwidth to the D*TV arsenal - and in addition, a new higher-standard MPEG4 compression method will allow D*TV to take sole position of the HD bandwidth leadership, as well as expanded network and local HD channel content. It will also provide the means to add additional new HD channels (such as TNT HD and ESPN2 HD) as their HD content reaches mainstream levels.

Don't be misled by these propagandists. They obviously have way too much time on their hands to continue singing their bogus tunes and moving from message board to message board doing the same dance every place they can.

Sorry but DIsh broadcasts at 1920x1080i and 1280x720p at high bitrates.

Directv broadcasts at 1280x1080i and 1280x720p at much lower bitrates.

(no bogus tune there Mr Propagandamiester) I really love your attempt at defending D*'s bitrate with weather and location crap. Thats a good one

And as far as Mpeg4 goes thats twice the compression as mpeg2. Im sure it will look better at 9-10 MBPS but D* will probably cheat that bitrate as they do now with Mpeg2 and the result may look even worse. To make things even worse D* was taken over by Rupert Murdoch a year or so ago, the man whose response to High Definition was FOX 16:9 480p widescreen:shocked Now as owner of D* his response to those asking for more HD channels is to shoe horn in channels by downrezz everything? Wow who would have ever guessed that? And last week he installed the man responsible for Fox's HDNFL moving grass fields in charge of programming? You may never be able to discern one blade of grass again on any D* HD channel after he gets done with it. See a pattern here?

 

[shugo77]

my 2 cents

I receive all my local channels OTA and they all broadcast in HD, I can tell a huge difference in quality between my local HD channels and D* HD channels. The locals are much better looking. I am a little disappointed in the quality of the D* HD channels, UHD seems to me to be the worst by far, it is awful on fast action.

Where I live my cable company does not provide HD, so I am happy to get what I can, and the HD channels still look amazing, but I know they can look a lot better. My mother lives in Louisiana and has Charter HD which makes my Satellite HD channels look amateur.

Overall I am happy, I just hope these new Satellites will provide us with better picture.

 

[pradike]

(no bogus tune there Mr Propagandamiester) I really love your attempt at defending D*'s bitrate with weather and location crap. Thats a good one

It's a shame some people don't understand the English language.

The bit rate emitted from a transponder is only one component impacting picture quality, which is the topic discussed - not just bitrates. In addition, weather, location (yes, the location DOES matter), equipment, and other factors impact your final picture quality. Yes, sorry to say, bitrates measured at the same time in different locations yield different results from the ground locations.

These are complimentary factors not exclusive, as the quote above mistakenly implies. DUH.

The location comes into play in terms of altitude, angle to the satellite (east or west coast), and atmospheric conditions (such as the thinner air in Denver, for example). Ask the west coast Voom folks if they have the same image quality as the east coast folks. If you don't think those things have a bearing on your sat image quality, perhaps Physics 101 might be in your future.

Sarcasm aside, the D*TV picture quality (like cable) can vary significantly by one or all of the factors aforementioned. I'm sure those folks with meters who apparently love sitting down with them to read bitmaps each day can talk all about how exciting that must be, but fact is, the eyes are the ultimate judge of PQ - and over 75 peoples eyes who have seen D*TV in this location and compared with their own Dish and Comcast setups are to a person 100% in agreement that the D*TV HD picture is superior. Is that the case everywhere, not necessarily. But there are so many blanket statements made here and on other message boards that brand X or brand x HD is superior, it's clearly a crock to say one is superior everywhere.

 

[vurbano]

It's a shame some people don't understand the English language.

The bit rate emitted from a transponder is only one component impacting picture quality, which is the topic discussed - not just bitrates. In addition, weather, location (yes, the location DOES matter), equipment, and other factors impact your final picture quality. Yes, sorry to say, bitrates measured at the same time in different locations yield different results from the ground locations.

These are complimentary factors not exclusive, as the quote above mistakenly implies. DUH.

The location comes into play in terms of altitude, angle to the satellite (east or west coast), and atmospheric conditions (such as the thinner air in Denver, for example). Ask the west coast Voom folks if they have the same image quality as the east coast folks. If you don't think those things have a bearing on your sat image quality, perhaps Physics 101 might be in your future.

Sarcasm aside, the D*TV picture quality (like cable) can vary significantly by one or all of the factors aforementioned. I'm sure those folks with meters who apparently love sitting down with them to read bitmaps each day can talk all about how exciting that must be, but fact is, the eyes are the ultimate judge of PQ - and over 75 peoples eyes who have seen D*TV in this location and compared with their own Dish and Comcast setups are to a person 100% in agreement that the D*TV HD picture is superior. Is that the case everywhere, not necessarily. But there are so many blanket statements made here and on other message boards that brand X or brand x HD is superior, it's clearly a crock to say one is superior everywhere.

Its no crock. PQ on directv due to downrezzing and bitrate slashing is the worst HD PQ of any sat provider currently.