WHOO HOOOO!!! PS3 gets Upconversion!!

Under the Video Games Section I have posted some of the 1.80 upgrades.
 
That's good news for PS3 owners. Hopefully they'll be able to do DTS Master next. Still haven't heard a peep about it from any of the insiders.

S~
 
Looks like the PS3 is finally shaping up to be the system it was advertised to be. :)

I downloaded the update this morning, however I did not play with any of the features yet. :)
 
This a nice release, the upconversion of DVD is sweet, also like the ability to stream from my PC. Now, if they would just release an IR adapter so everyones universal remotes would work the PS3 would be a great BD player!
 
This a nice release, the upconversion of DVD is sweet, also like the ability to stream from my PC. Now, if they would just release an IR adapter so everyones universal remotes would work the PS3 would be a great BD player!

Spoilsport! :D

Not a problem for us old diehards who think it's more fun and helps fight Alzheimers by having to remember which of the 6 remotes does what. :eek:

Nice update. The PS3 really is a good deal for all it can do.
 
It did, it was in the same release.

PS3 game video upgrade was not included. PS1/ps2 video upgrade (from 480i only) was included. Apparently the game producers still need to write code using the later development kit or 720p games still downgrade to 480P.

Ps: PS2 video games outputing at 480p still look better at 480p, and 480p is not upgraded. If output at 480I can be upgraded to 1080P but does not look as good as when it is output at 480p.
 
Actually tnsprin, while not fixing the 720p nightmare that those with no 720p input are suffering the upgrade does help the PS3 games in that it improves textures by allowing the PS3 to set blacker then black and whiter the white (the Super White setting). This setting not only improves colour but by allowing full range you see more textures.

I think that the PS3 should have been doing this since launch as it is a nice bump in PQ. Of course your particular HDTV must be able to render the addional black and white range in order to see the differance. You will not only see a differance in games but also in BDs and DVDs also.
 
...You will not only see a differance in games but also in BDs and DVDs also.
If the BD/DVD is a movie - you won't.
Unlike games (RGB, 0-255), movies are [16,235] and there are no advantages to be had
by being able to present BTB and WTW - such information is absent in movies.

Diogen.
 
Actually diogen, you are incorrect. The ability of a HD monitor to be able to show blacker then black and whiter then white has a direct effect on the contrast and definition in very dark and in very bright scenes. This is where CRTs are supperior to every other form of massed prodcuced HD monitors right now. LCDs, DLPs and other newer projection products are getting there but they are not there yet.

When the output of the player is set to the 0-255 range and matched by the HD monitor then you will see a more complete range of blacks and whites. So, if your DVD player can output the 0-255 range and your HD monitor can play that back you will have a more detailed picture in darker and brighter scenes. A more in-depth description is here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=523614&p=5378991

There is detail below 16 and above 235. I prefer to see that detail and those who have played around with this will agree. However, since most fixed pixel displays sold in the last 5 years are not capable of showing this level of detail then I can see where one with a fixed display will not see any improvement. That said, most of the current 1080p fixed displays this year are reaching that level of detail and on those HD monitors you can see a differance.
 
Last edited:
There is detail below 16 and above 235.
In mainstream Hollywood flicks? No.
And "stretching" won't do any good either. Except maybe HTPC playback convenience.
From the link you posted:
Overlay...
This will get rid of, or "clip" 0-15 and 236-255, showing video levels (16-235) as they should appear, by expanding the 16-235 range to 0-255. This shows level 16 black at level 0 of PC levels, and level 235 white at 255. This stretches out the whole range of values and may create unwanted side effects because it discards or clips any information that may be encoded below/above 16 and 235. It does, however, allow DVDs to be viewed with black/white at the proper level without adjusting the brightness/contrast level of the display itself, which may be necesary due to the uses of the HTPC, constraints of the display, etc. etc..
I prefer to see that detail and those who have played around with this will agree.
There has to be information - BTB, WTW - to start with. Unless it is CG or special production - there is none.

Some people prefer LPs over any other sound, using tube amplifiers, only stereo, hearing 40KHz sound, etc. To everybody his own. No objections on my part. Just don't claim there is any "science" in it.

The less you "massage" any digital signal - audio and/or video - the better chance you have to hear/see the signal the way it was designed to be heard/seen.
And isn't this the ultimate goal of any audio/video presentation?

Diogen.
 
diogen, I have an CRT RPTV not a fixed pixel display. There is a differance in range of the Picture between the two when playing a DVD. This is why people for years have been moaning about the greyscale and the black and white reproduction of fixed pixel displays when compared with CRTs. If you have a properly calibrated display you can actually measure the differance on a good CRT RPTV between the 0IRE setting and the 7.5IRE setting providing the player supports the 0 IRE range.

First, there is no 'streching out' of the video signal below 16 and above 235. Get a meter and measure. Some monitors (especially good CRT RPTVs) can display below 16 and above 235. There is detail there but most fixed pixel displays cannot display at that level. The discussion on AVS is based on NTSC technology on a PC. This is not the world of HD PQ. NTSC standards are not what is being used in HDTV reproduction SMPTE is. Using NTSC to explain SMPTE standards is confusing because they are not one in the same.

Since it is obvious that we are not going to agree lets agree to disagree and if you are ever in Raleigh, North Carolina look me up and I will gladely not only show you the differance in using both settings on a DENON 3910 DVD player but also in the output of the PS3 as both a BD and DVD player. On my professionally calibrated Pioneer 630HD you can actually see the differance. And if you give me enough time maybe I can get my HD guru to bring over his $10,000 baby and hook it up and show you a print out of the differance as each player produces its picture. I already have one print out from my last calibration. Man, these new toys for calibrating are nice!!!
 
...The discussion on AVS is based on NTSC technology on a PC. This is not the world of HD PQ.
First, you provide a link and then you claim it doesn't matter. OK...
I'm not claiming the ability to show [0,255] is of no use (read my posts). CG, games benefit from it.
I'm claiming mainstream flicks don't have any information in WTW and BTB regions. By definition.
CRT, no matter how much better than LCD, DLP, SED, LCOS, plasma, etc. can't show what isn't there.
And claiming you see the difference doesn't prove anything (sorry for reminding the obvious).
...Since it is obvious that we are not going to agree lets agree to disagree
So be it.

Diogen.
 
The following are quotes -- I will paste site at bottom:

"North American NTSC standards historically used a level for the analog output of black that was 53.6mV (aka 7.5 IRE) above the blanking voltage of 0mV (0 IRE), and we still do. Other standards like HD, Japanese NTSC, etc use 0mV to output black, and lack the 53.6mV (7.5 IRE) ‘setup pedestal’ that North America uses."

"Both HD material and DVDs use the same digital levels. It is the ANALOG output standards which can vary. The encoded levels represent black just as black. The dynamic range is the same. Video encodes black at digital 16. Period. That’s black, and whether it is output at 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE the resultant image should be equally black. If there is any difference in the visible levels of black, your video chain is miscalibrated. If you connect sources that output at various voltages, you have to calibrate to EACH of these sources. Users will often connect a DVD player that outputs black at 7.5 IRE, then connect an HD source that outputs black at 0 IRE, discover that the HD source is darker, and mistakenly conclude that HD has improved black capabilities. This discovery of changed blacks is merely that you have different sources sending different signals. You must calibrate your display to each individually."

"Unfortunately, in reality DVD players are often designed poorly and may clip BTB data. Some will clip BTB in both settings, others will clip it in one or the other. A correctly designed DVD player will maintain BTB data at analog output regardless of whether it is set to output black at 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE."

“Why does data below black even exist? That makes no sense! What can be blacker than black!?”

"In video, headroom and footroom is important for a number of reasons. The most basic is that mastering can be less than perfect, so some “fudge-room” has always existed. However, even with ‘perfect’ mastering, data regularly extends outside reference black/reference white. Peak white data allows for highlight details to be maintained, which is common in clouds and other bright objects. BTB data helps prevent image anomalies from hard clipping of the analog waveform at black when converted to analog. BTB can also sometimes become visible as the actual black level on a CRT display floats up and down with image content because black level retention on CRTs is not perfect. The mastering engineer is viewing on a CRT display and actively changing the encoded levels so that they are imaged correctly on the display. This reverse-float compensation in black is allowed with BTB footroom. This reverse float compensation should be the only times data encoded below black is visible in the final image. If you are using a PLUGE pattern with BTB bars to calibrate, you should calibrate so that the BTB data is not visible. BTB data also helps define dithering duty patterns on DLP projectors. Lastly, BTB and peak white data is quite useful for any image processing/scaling etc applied to an image. For all these potential reasons, video engineers advocate preserving full BTB and peak white data whenever possible. Lastly, this data is helpful for any image processing that is applied on an image, such as sharpening, scaling, etc."

Refererance setting = 16-235
Peak setting = 0-255 (What most of us refer to as BTB and WTW)

This information was pasted from this site:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606
 
I thought you preferred the "agree to disagree" ending.
If you want to continue this discussion, let me know.

You can start with explainig what exactly in those quotes support your position.
This? "Video encodes black at digital 16. Period."

Diogen.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)