Why not 4DTV? (1 Viewer)

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trinidex

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Jul 16, 2004
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This might seem dumb (and repetitive), but what is the problem with 4DTV (for providers)?
Why are we losing our channels?
Why are we being pushed to pizza? It's not like DCII is going away!

Negative things for Joe Blow as I see it:

1) Size of dish
2) Setup
3) Time for dish to move to different sats
4) Big STB

Positive things for Joe Blow as I see it:

1) Choice of programming - so much choice!
2) Picture and Sound quality - pizza doesn't just compress video, the audio often sounds like you're underwater!
3) No contracts
4) Freedom of providers - although not so many now!

I know many here have said all of the above before, what I (think) I'm getting at is; subscribers are subscribers and viewers are viewers. If I were a program provider I'd want people to watch my channel - preferably in the best not-mucked-about-with quality they can.

We use 4DTV and we love it, the wife is a little uncomfortable with the mechanics, but when the guide works, she is happy, point, click, (wait) and watch!

We have so much choice and for the most part the quality is awesome - oh yes, it's all SD - but it's gorgeous, no artefacts, no "crap" on fast scenes or smoke scenes - who the heck thinks that is acceptable?

Let's not forget that the signals we want to watch are already out there! It's not like we need them compressed, changed, moved.

I understand a shift in technology, more channels, less transponder space and I know our DSRs have issues with what they can use - something I believe could be fixed with a software update (no proof, but it seems likely).

One 'problem' for providers is advertising - yup I understand that, but you know what's wrong, having to pay for TV and having to watch advertisements. In the UK, where you pay a TV licence fee, the channels that get their funding from the licence fee don't have adverts - because they're funded by the licence fee!, the channels that aren't funded, rely on advertising - fair enough!

Some feeds aren't meant for Joe Blow, they're true masters, with minutes of black for local provider advertisement segments - sure I get that.

So now I've ranted on what has been discussed countless times (although a board admin could probably find that statistic!), what I'd like to know is, who can we pressure, is there anyone who we can talk to, plead our case. What about HITS/SRL/Motorola - Moto make DCII boxes for StarChoice that support all the modes under the sun!

Thanks for reading guys, have a great a day and keep your 4DTV subbed!
 
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tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
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Montreal, QC
The 4dtv is showing it's age, it is a outdated receiver, most channels will most probably still use DCII but these days if they are smart they will use DVB-S2 H.264 and well the 4dtv can't tune these in, the 4dtv can't even tune in the older megapipe channels. The 4dtv will be useful for a while until HITS moves on to S2, then well it will just be a dish mover and polarity switcher.

So unless someone with deep pockets can get one of those up coming Shaw Direct 630 receivers going for us then the subs for the home market to distro feeds will most probably be over with soon.
 

johnnynobody

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Aug 2, 2009
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The 4dtv is showing it's age, it is a outdated receiver, most channels will most probably still use DCII but these days if they are smart they will use DVB-S2 H.264 and well the 4dtv can't tune these in, the 4dtv can't even tune in the older megapipe channels. The 4dtv will be useful for a while until HITS moves on to S2, then well it will just be a dish mover and polarity switcher.

So unless someone with deep pockets can get one of those up coming Shaw Direct 630 receivers going for us then the subs for the home market to distro feeds will most probably be over with soon.

I guess my days of watching TV are coming to an end unless I want to watch streamed video on my TV or watch OTA stuff. I'll never subscribe to the pizza dish.
 

tvropro

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The 4dtv is showing it's age, it is a outdated receiver, most channels will most probably still use DCII but these days if they are smart they will use DVB-S2 H.264 and well the 4dtv can't tune these in, the 4dtv can't even tune in the older megapipe channels. The 4dtv will be useful for a while until HITS moves on to S2, then well it will just be a dish mover and polarity switcher.

So unless someone with deep pockets can get one of those up coming Shaw Direct 630 receivers going for us then the subs for the home market to distro feeds will most probably be over with soon.

The only way we will get to watch the distro feeds in the future is with commercial receiver, or a multi platform FTA box,when they go ITC for some event on their end. It is really sad after having access to subscribe to them for so many years. The cable cartel never liked that we tapped into their private feeds years ago but sold to us anyway. Now that there is pizza and the like they thumb there noses at us since they don't need us for revenue anymore.

Comcast buying up everything is going to make it hard on the pizza guys though. As much as I don't really care for Comcast I hope they give it to pizza for what the pizza guys did to c band.
 

photoman76

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Jan 8, 2005
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4dtv makes no sense as a distribution method for a program provider today.
All channels are moving toward HD.
HD takes more bandwidth than SD.

4dtv = 2 HD channels per transponder
DC2 combo mode = 3 HD channels per transponder
DVB-S2/H.264 = 7 to 8 HD channels per transponder

Transponder space is not cheap, which would you choose?
 

eurosport

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Mar 31, 2008
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Why are we being pushed to pizza? It's not like DCII is going away!

Negative things for Joe Blow as I see it:

1) Size of dish
2) Setup
3) Time for dish to move to different sats
4) Big STB
Ok..I'll give you "size of dish" but the main reasons are:
1. Little to no HD
2. Little to no HD
3. Little to no HD
and, 4. ...well you get it, like photoman76 said
All channels are moving toward HD.
HD takes more bandwidth than SD.
SD is the past. It's over.
Last one out of the antique 4:3 world,
please turn off the lights. :rolleyes:
(Disclaimer: I still like my 4DTV, but without HD, it really will be gone,
just like analog/VCII before it.)
 

tvropro

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Mar 9, 2007
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The thing is we can't subscribe to the distro HD. Pizza is not true HD it is a lite form of HD so if we go with pizza were not getting HD it's HD lite. http://www.themusicworkshopchicago.com/satellite/hdlite.htm

Maybe Joe six pack is happy with the lite version but the videophiles aren't. What ticks me off more than anything is all the true HD feeds can be received by my C band dish. I will always look for a way to see the original even if only here and there, for as long as my c band dish stands and works.
 
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ikki

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Jan 22, 2009
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Can the hardware and software in a Starchoice reciever display DVB-S2/H.264 and Combomode uplinks. (Provided they are not encrypted) ?
 

tvropro

On Vacation
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Can the hardware and software in a Starchoice reciever display DVB-S2/H.264 and Combomode uplinks. (Provided they are not encrypted) ?

The new *Choice receiver coming out probably could, but if it works like the older receivers and 410 you can't get anything unless you could trick the EMM provider and maps.

Now if someone could modify it for manual tuning like a DVB box it would be the cat's meow for us for DC-2 FTA.
 

ikki

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> The new *Choice receiver coming out probably could, but if it works like the older receivers and 410 you can't get anything unless you could trick the EMM provider and maps.

Does Starchoice contract with Motorola on authorizing these units via the ACC?
 

trinidex

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Jul 16, 2004
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I understand the lack of HD - maybe, I'm not 100% onboard - my SD masters look great on my 42"

If DCII is an unpractical system because of bandwidth then sure, I understand it's presribed demise, but that would mean that StarChoice are gonna change their system - not likely, not bludy likely.

Yes the original DSRs are old, and a bit funny in their behaviour - sure, but let's get a new box, like StarChoice, let's take advantage of the original feeds on satellites.

How the heck does using satellites to re-broadcast make sense, the signals are received by satellite and then you compress them and spit them out over satellite - WTF?!

Yes I'm a big fan of 4DTV and DCII for that matter - maybe because the bulk of DCII is quality stuff compared to MPEG2 - now people are moving to MPEG4 - sure I get that.

So.........build a 4DTV alternative, don't kill it off. Analog C-Band went to Digital 4DTV - so bring on the next generation, don't kill it off in favour of HD-Lite!
 

TMair

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Jan 12, 2010
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Midway, Utah
When it comes to HD I really don't see the attraction, I do buy blueray movies when I can afford them, but for me it is the true HD audio, I love the sound!
What I would like to know is why doesn't NAFTA include tv programming? (It seams to include everything else) If we could be part of the Canadian group who still use big dish I think we could have some numbers to bargain with.
Terry
 

pwrsurge

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Aug 7, 2007
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Hey guys,

I'm actually about 20 minutes drive away from the Shaw Direct Operations Centre (formerly Star Choice) in Mississauga, ON. We should present a proposal to them to expand their market by selling 4DTV versions of their receivers as this could easily be done. There is a significant untapped market of C-Band dishes over here in Canada, many which are dormant as 4DTV was not really promoted well in this area.

I would prepare a proposal myself but I'm really busy opening my satellite retail store so my time is limited. However, if the people here get together and come up with a proposal draft, I could put the final touches on it and present it to them directly.


Regards,

PwrSurge
 

trinidex

Thread Starter
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Jul 16, 2004
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Hey guys,

I'm actually about 20 minutes drive away from the Shaw Direct Operations Centre (formerly Star Choice) in Mississauga, ON. We should present a proposal to them to expand their market by selling 4DTV versions of their receivers as this could easily be done. There is a significant untapped market of C-Band dishes over here in Canada, many which are dormant as 4DTV was not really promoted well in this area.

I would prepare a proposal myself but I'm really busy opening my satellite retail store so my time is limited. However, if the people here get together and come up with a proposal draft, I could put the final touches on it and present it to them directly.


Regards,

PwrSurge

Worth a shot. I don't believe I have the business know-how to put together something like this - wouldn't know what they'd want to see, other than how much $$$ they'll make :)
 

tdti1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 23, 2004
2,318
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Montreal, QC
Trinidex DCII is not going anywhere, Shaw Directs new DSR 630 is able to pull in and decode DCII H.264 DVB-S2 feeds.

DCII is an encryption just like Power vu and can be implemented on whatever compression scheme is used by the broadcaster.

SRL and NPS was told by Motorola that the 630's are exclusive to Shaw Direct. I am not sure if SRL and NPS ever contacted Shaw to try to work something out with them directly?
 

photoman76

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 8, 2005
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I just checked out Shaw Direct on Anik F1R and Anik F2. Presently they are using 4dtv compatible DCII for SD and Turbo 8psk with DCII encryption for HD. I could find no DVB-S2 signals. To lock the Turbo 8psk I had to use my DVB Tech card.
 

trinidex

Thread Starter
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Jul 16, 2004
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DCII is an encryption just like Power vu and can be implemented on whatever compression scheme is used by the broadcaster.

Ah right it's just an encryption method not a broadcast standard, thanks for clarifying.
 
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