Will 622 have better OTA Program Guide?

[waltinvt]

It isn't so.

NBR is coming. You'll be subscribing to DISH locals to get the guide, which is the main sticking point.

It is too so. :neener My answer to "txfeinbergs" was in the context of if you don't sub to Dish's locals package, you don't get the epg info and therefore can only record OTA channels by using a manual timer, which is very limited.

Thanks for the laugh. Near DC the stations not long ago couldn't even get their channel mapping straight. Getting that done, and getting out EPG, are two different things. I'm not sure the FCC has specific requirements on EPG content- "digital program" or such may well suffice.

But don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with your last paragraph. It's just not the whole answer.

I don't sub to Dish locals but when I had my 811 hooked up it did provide the epg data from the PSIP for all the OTA I could get except PBS. It was when I replaced my 811 with the 942 that I stopped getting the epg info. So that tells me that Dish did (or didn't do) something to that receiver to prevent it from getting the epg from the PSIP stream. Also, others in my area with digital STBs are getting the epg info, so the station must be providing it.

 

[navychop]

I've heard that the DC area HD LiLs are supposed to be coming on line now.

 

[navychop]

With NBR on the ViP622, he can record the way he wants- IF the guide data is there, which it often isn't, as you pointed out- AND he subscribes to Dish locals. I believe it has been posted that Dish is using another source of guide data than the PSIP. This would be necessary, since no PSIP is going to go out 9 days. So PSIP only guide data will be of limited use for NBR. It would work, you just wouldn't see out very far for when the next recording is. How far out did the EPG go on the 811? Maybe they use different sources for the different models- shifting from an old to a new provider. Or did the 811 just provide the PSIP for non subscribers, and another, longer period guide, for people who paid for Dish provided locals?

Dish pays for that EPG data, and feels that if you don't subscribe to their locals, why should they provide a free service. But also blocking the PSIP data is a step too far.

I agree. Dish should at least allow the option of displaying the PSIP data, especially for OTA folks. The Dish provided OTA EPG may improve- or it may not. At least Dish still has the OTA tuner- I hear the new D* STBs will not have OTA tuners.

I have an ATSC STB (no guide data) hooked up to a DVD recorder, and a separate ATSC DVR (with guide data). I record by time on both. The former requires entering start and stop times, and the repetition frequency. The latter lets me click on a show, and set the repetition frequency, certainly easier. I imagine NBR will be easier to set up, but will require more time and effort on screening out duplicates, prior season repeats in syndication, etc. The system ain't perfect. So when I get a ViP622, I will be able to set start and stop times since I don't subscribe to Dish locals- not the easiest, but not onerous. And it will have the great benefit of letting me use that 30 second skip ahead button.

It's clear both D* & E* are scrounging for money every way they can now, to pay for the MPEG-4 conversion. And D* has got to move to regularly making a profit, or more drastic steps will be taken. Why do you think they were sold in the first place?

 

[abricko]

Do you sub to dish locals

My 921 picks up the LA PBS OTA HD channel 28 PG infor just fine. There are two signals under channel 28 one a mirro of the SD broadcast and the other really nice HD programming, and both have program guide info.

I can also pickup the signal from Orange County PBS channel 50. The also have multiple sub channels. The channel that carries the mirror of the SD channel has a guide and the others don't.

That's all I can offer since I really don't know who does what to produce a program guide, but a logical conclusion would be that Dish passes on whatever info they get from the broadcaster.

I live in LA area, still not getting program guide info (digital service still shows) i don't sub to the dish version of locals... i want programming guide info...

 

[GaryPen]

Why do people defend Dish's horrendous practices regarding OTA EPG info? The fact is that they sell and lease DVR's with OTA tuners. As such, they should be providing all of the necessary tools to use these DVR's properly. That means accurate guide info for ALL local OTA digital channels and sub-channels.

This is especially egregious when they charge $6 extra each month for the priviledge of using a Dish DVR (even if you own it), and ANOTHER $6 per month for an OTA HD fee, if you don't subscribe to an HD Package.

So, even subs who are paying that $12 per month have to fork over ANOTHER $5 or $6 for local channels just to get guide info which does not include digital sub-channels or even the main PBS HD channel. WTF?

That is one heaping pile of steaming horse manure. And to those of you that for some weird reason defend their bullship, put down the glass of kool-aid for a second and grow some cahones. Or, do you just enjoy enjoy washing down your horse manure with kool-aid?

 

[riffjim4069]

I won't defend E*'s terrible OTA EPG pricing and support since...well, it's indefensible IMO. However, these are Dish Network's policies and we aren't being held hostage; we're free to find another provider. Just how Dish Network populates my EPG locals is a complete mystery to me...it would be much easier if they would just use PSIP.

In my case, I have two OTA antennas and receive programming from 4 DMAs. All three of my HDTVs have integrated ATSC/QAM tuners and I also have a stand-alone Sony HD DVR for recording OTA events. Even so, I still pay the $5 per month locals fee simply for the convenience of having local EPG data on the Dish receivers. What really upsets me is that the EPG for some of my locals in not being populated...and there is no guide date for subchannels. BTW, I am in the Washington DC DMA (55+ miles), but I am physically closer to both Richmond and Charlottesville VA:

002-01 WMAR Guide Displays 9-days Baltimore MD (ABC DC Significantly Viewed)
002-02 WMAR Digital Local Baltimore MD (SD subchannel)
002-03 WMAR Digital Local Baltimore MD (Weather/Radar subchannel)
004-01 WRC Guide Data for 9 days Washington (WRC NBC)
004-02 WRC Digital Local Washington (Weather/Radar subchannel)
005-01 WTTG Guide Data for 9 days Washington (WTTC FOX)
006-01 CBS6 Digital Service Richmond VA (CBS ABC SV for my zipcode)
006-02 Xt Digital Service Richmond VA (The Tube subchannel)
006-03 TheT Digital Service Richmond VA (Weather/Radar subchannel)
007-01 WJLA Guide Data for 9 days Washington (WJLA ABC)
007-02 WJLA Digital Service Washington (Weather/Radar subchannel)
008-01 WRIC Guide Data for 9 days Richmond VA (ABC NOT SV for my zipcode)
008-02 WRIC Digital Service Richmond VA (Weather/Radar subchannel)
009-01 WUSA Guide Data for 9 days Washington (WUSA CBS)
009-02 WUSA Digital Service Washington (Weather/Radar subchannel)
011-01 WBAL Guide Data for 9 days Baltimore MD (NBC DC Significantly Viewed)
011-02 WBAL Digital Service Baltimore MD (Weather/Radar subchannel)
012-01 NBC1 Guide Data for 9 days Richmond VA (WWBT NBC NOT SV for my zipcode)
012-02 NBC1 Digital Service Richmond VA (SD subchannel)
012-03 NBC1 Digital Service Richmond VA (Weather/Radar subchannel)
013-01 WJZ- Guide Data for 9 days Baltimore MD (CBS DC Significantly Viewed)
014-01 WFDC Digital Service Washington (WFDC UNI)
023-01 WCVE Guide Data for 9 days Richmond VA (WCVE PBS-HD)
026-01 WETA Digital Service Washington (WETA PBS-HD)
026-02 WETA Digital Service Washington (WETA PBS SD)
026-03 WETA Digital Service Washington (WETA PBS Kids)
026-04 WETA Digital Service Washington (WETA PBS)
029-01 WVIR Guide Data for 9 days Charlottsvl (WVIR NBC)
030-01 MHz1 Guide Data 9 days Washington (WNVT IND)
030-02 MHz2 Digital Service Washington (WNVT IND)
030-03 MHz3 Digital Service Washington (WNVT IND)
030-04 MHz4 Digital Service Washington (WNVT IND)
035-01 FOX Guide Data 9 days Richmond VA (WRLH FOX-HD SV for my zipcode)
035-02 FOX Digital Service Richmond VA (WRLH FOX-SD)
045-01 FOX4 Guide Data 9 days Baltimore MD (FOX-HD DC Significantly Viewed)
045-02 FOX4 Digital Service Baltimore MD (FOX-SD DC Significantly Viewed)
050-01 WBDC Guide Data 9 days Washington (WBDC WB)
057-01 WCVW Guide Data 9 days Richmond VA (WCVW PBS-HD)

For anyone watching at Dish Network:

Black is Home DMA of Washington DC
Blue is Baltimore MD DMA (SV for Washington DC)
Green is Richmond VA DMA (2 are SV for my County)
Purple is Charlottesville VA DMA
Bold are problems IMO

 

[smokejoe]

My question is, who actually does have accurate EPG data on local PBS digital stations?

1. All Direct TV receivers receive EPG for PBS-HD and other sub-channels.
D* HD PVR also permits recording 2 OTA (or watching one while recording another).
Also, Dish 942 and 622 only allow one OTA viewing OR recording at a time.

2. My lowly Humax (FHA100) provides 4 days of guide data for PBS-HD and all OTA channels including subs.