WOW Factor Spreadsheets

[Vicki]

If you've seen this thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=23191 and are interested in the current status of my findings, the bottom line is that I still have that WOW factor on most channels, and am continuing to monitor daily to try to nail down where it came from!

Initially I thought it was because of three factors in the system status coming together at the same time:

1. EMM Provider changing to 159
2. Authorization Status changed to MP from SWO, and
3. SNR numbers going from double digits to 0.00

After reviewing the info for a few days now, I am leaning towards just #3 because that is the only item that has remained constant since the WOW factor began for me. Numbers 2 & 3 have gone back and forth, and sometimes the WOW factor is still there and sometimes it’s not. But when I had high numbers for SNR (prior to Thursday Noon), I never had the WOW factor.

These spreadsheets have gone through several permutations, and it's still evolving. I’ve tried to comment as much as I can about factors observed when I took the settings, i.e, a wind came up or slight pixelization, sound drop, etc. Please suggest any factors that you think should be documented beyond what I’ve already started with. As I said, this is evolving! Now that I have at least a preliminary layout to print out and fill in for monitoring each day, I'll be able to spend more time noting the quality and be able to give more specific detail.

There are 5 labeled tabs in the Excel workbook. I think (make that—HOPE!) that if you read the notes and legends on each sheet before starting to analyze the info (if you are interested enough to do that!), that they will be pretty self-explanatory.

I’d appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone may have about anything else to consider to try to find the common threads (if there are any) in what settings and factors equal that WOW factor--short of a new STB—(and taking into account the different sources of what’s being broadcast.)

This PQ analysis started as just an investigation to help me figure out which channels I was getting and what their quality was from my existing Stealth antenna. I plan to continue to monitor these things going forward for a few days, because I may still need an upgraded antenna, but I’m no longer convinced that is necessary at this point, and am considering putting my appointment for Monday on hold.

If anyone is interested in what I continue to document, and especially if you have any suggestions on things you would like me to watch for, I will try to incorporate that into my layout, and would be happy to share. Just send me a PM if you want me to send you updated copies.

Needless to say, if I compile enough info that it convinces me I can see the piece labeled EUREKA! in this puzzle, I’ll throw it out here for target practice!
Vicki

 

[jawilljr]

Vicki, on #3 try unplugging and replug the VOOM box back in. Then check the SNR... I will bet you it will come back up. That is another bug in the S/W. Actually the higher the SNR the better.

Jerry

 

[vurbano]

You need to watch 1080i CBS primetime at 19 mbps or HDnet on D* or E* to see what the WOW factor is first before you think Voom has it.

 

[Vicki]

Vicki, on #3 try unplugging and replug the VOOM box back in. Then check the SNR... I will bet you it will come back up. That is another bug in the S/W. Actually the higher the SNR the better.

Sorry Jerry, but not on my main STB! I think you misunderstood me--I was trying to say that since I've been showing 0.00 SNR, my picture has been markedly improved!

But I did try your suggestion on the STB in my bedroom, because it still had high SNR numbers. Didn't change the numbers. It's an SD set, but I don't see any difference in the PQ, whereas on my main STB, as soon as those numbers went from high to 0.00 about Noon on Thursday, I went WOW!!!!!! Especially evident on HD broadcasts, but it even improved the 480i stuff! I'm a happy camper, and I'm not touchin' that main box unless it blows!

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

You need to watch 1080i CBS primetime at 19 mbps or HDnet on D* or E* to see what the WOW factor is first before you think Voom has it.

Perhaps, but I'm still a happy camper!!! Sorry!
Vicki

 

[Ilya]

Vicki, what kind of zip program are you using? I don't seem to be able to unzip the file...

 

[Vicki]

Vicki, what kind of zip program are you using? I don't seem to be able to unzip the file...

It is WinZip Wizard version.

Vicki

 

[Ilya]

It is WinZip Wizard version.

Strange. I have WinZip too, but it fails to open this file. I downloaded the file three times - the same result. Have anyone succeeded?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I can't open it eaither. I tried it on two different machines with no luck. It opens up for me, but there zip contains nothing.

 

[motorcycle_rider]

I get it is an invalid or corupt zip file. Could you repost it but creat a new zip file?

 

[motorcycle_rider]

Just to add to Vicki's observations. Today I noticed that the picture seemed much crisper. I Even noticed some improvement on SD channels. (I have kids and a wife so hence the sd). Maybe when Voom had the Program guide problem and when they fixed that the may have fixed some of the PQ problems. So poses the question to those who lost TNT-HD now that it is back has your PQ seemed to improve any?

 

[Vicki]

Just to add to Vicki's observations. Today I noticed that the picture seemed much crisper. I Even noticed some improvement on SD channels. (I have kids and a wife so hence the sd). Maybe when Voom had the Program guide problem and when they fixed that the may have fixed some of the PQ problems. So poses the question to those who lost TNT-HD now that it is back has your PQ seemed to improve any?

Will do--sorry --Good grief, I must be jinxed!

Just to add to Vicki's observations. Today I noticed that the picture seemed much crisper. I Even noticed some improvement on SD channels. (I have kids and a wife so hence the sd). Maybe when Voom had the Program guide problem and when they fixed that the may have fixed some of the PQ problems. So poses the question to those who lost TNT-HD now that it is back has your PQ seemed to improve any??

...and if so, could you also post:
1. Your software version,
2. EMM Providers (i.e., 1080, ***),
3. Satellite Signal Quality,
4. Off-Air Signal Quality,
5. Satellite Signal Power/SNR,
6. Off-Air Signal Power/SNR, and
7. Authorization Status
These are all on pages 1, 2 & 3 of your System Settings Status option.

Thanks! Vicki

 

[DarrellP]

I'll believe it when I see it, I have yet to see the WOW factor on any VOOM channel. The closest that came to it for me was The Grid on TNTHD, close but no cigar. I haven't watched any Voom since then, so I'll have to check it out someday.

Since I have my daughter for vacation this week, I probably won't watch a thing, so if things are improving, maybe when I tune back in next week, it will be even better.

FWIW, I've noticed PQ on HDNET Movies going downhill lately, I think Dish is gearing up to add 3 channels/transponder. They've already done it with several channels. It's not good, folks, it really mucks things up.

 

[Vicki]

I'll believe it when I see it, I have yet to see the WOW factor on any VOOM channel. The closest that came to it for me was The Grid on TNTHD, close but no cigar. I haven't watched any Voom since then, so I'll have to check it out someday.

Since I have my daughter for vacation this week, I probably won't watch a thing, so if things are improving, maybe when I tune back in next week, it will be even better.

FWIW, I've noticed PQ on HDNET Movies going downhill lately, I think Dish is gearing up to add 3 channels/transponder. They've already done it with several channels. It's not good, folks, it really mucks things up.

...when you have time after your daughter is gone, would you also post:
1. Your software version,
2. EMM Providers (i.e., 1080, ***),
3. Satellite Signal Quality,
4. Off-Air Signal Quality,
5. Satellite Signal Power/SNR,
6. Off-Air Signal Power/SNR, and
7. Authorization Status
These are all on pages 1, 2 & 3 of your System Settings Status option

I'm getting ready to post in the "your area forum" about some very, very detailed findings [B](WOW!!) [/B] on my channel 6.1 PBS History Detectives, which is on right now (until 10PM) in CA, so if you have a chance, try dropping in on it tonight and just give us your impressions if possible. I'd be very interested in your findings. Where are you located?
Vicki

 

[vinnyv07]

You need to watch 1080i CBS primetime at 19 mbps or HDnet on D* or E* to see what the WOW factor is first before you think Voom has it.

I prefer my OTA CBS rather than the one on DTV....but I do have an older DTV HD receiver which probably makes the difference. Its the DTC-100, but its built into my TV so until the tv dies thats what I have. Im not complaining though. Directv's CBSHD looks a bit softer than the OTA running through my VOOM receiver. And it should be, you cant get a better picture than OTA.

 

[bryan27]

FYI What they mean:

EMM Providers: 1080/*** 1080 is the hex value of 4224 which is the STB ID for Cablevision. *** is the hex value for an individual channel ID, or group of channels.

Authorization Status (the major ones):

MP: Program Key is missing (usually present on locals, but can show up on others)
NS: Not Subscribed
SWO: Subscribed
RB: Regional Blackout

 

[MasterFX1]

you cant get a better picture than OTA.

Very Off Topic:

Well, if your local affiliate chooses to split its bandwidth with say another network affiliate in SD or a radar loop, than OTA may NOT be the best you can get. In my market, only 1 out of the 4 locals broadcasting OTA in HD give it "Full Bandwidth." Our CBS has a UPN SD subchannel, the NBC is subchanneling a SD simulcast to get the signal to distant cable networks and PBS... well PBS is not full bandwidth from the network. Only our WB affiliate is giving the signal the full 19.3 Mb/s.

Furthermore, 19.3 Mb/s is the FCC's OTA standard only. Cable and Satellite could certanly choose to exceed that data rate if they made the STB's capable. True uncompressed HD is 1.5 Gb/s. CBS beams HD to affiliates at around 54 Mb/s. PBS, by contrast, pre-compresses the network feed to 15 Mb/s. Finally, it's the quality of the local affiliates encoder, as well as the bandwidth assigned that affects PQ the most.

 

[Ilya]

Vicki, as I understand, you have four mysteries:

1. EMM Provider changing,
2. Authorization Status changed to MP from SWO,
3. SNR numbers going from double digits to 0.00,
4. The picture quality has suddenly improved (the "WOW").

I think I can solve the first two of your mysteries, but I can only speculate on the other two.

Looking at your spreadsheet (which I was finally able to unzip), you are talking about changes on OTA channels. What you probably do not realize is that EMM Providers and Authorization Status values are for satellite channels, not for OTA.

Let me explain this. Although the PG seamlessly integrates OTA and satellite channels, internally there are two separate tuners in the STB: one for OTA, and another one for satellite. Some of the values that you see on the System Status screens come from the OTA tuner (Off-Air Signal Quality, Off-Air Signal Power/SNR), other value come from the satellite tuner (Satellite SQ, SP/SNR, Authorization Status, EMM Providers, etc.) When you switch from an OTA channel to a satellite channel, the STB switches from the OTA tuner to the satellite tuner. The OTA tuner remains on the last OTA channel you tuned to. So, the Off-Air Signal Quality, for example, continues showing the values for that last selected OTA channel. Similarly, when you switch from a satellite channel (e.g. 8.15, which is a satellite channel 999, even though it is mapped to the OTA range for some reason) to an OTA channel (e.g. 13.1), the EMM and the Authorization values continue to show values of the last satellite channel you tuned to.

Most satellite channels have Authorization status SWO. Channels that you don't subscribe to have NA, and the barker channel 999/8.15 has MP (for whatever reason). So, when you switch from 999 (or from 8.15), to an OTA channel, you see MP.

The third issue (0 SNR), is most likely a result of a glitch in the STB software. Rebooting the STB might be able to fix this, if you are willing to try.

The PQ improvement is the most interesting of your issues. It may or may not be related to other issues you described. Although we cannot exclude the possibility that some glitch in the STB somehow improved the PQ, we should consider other possibilities too. Without knowing all the details I can only speculate, but here are some possible explanations:

Is it possible, that what you are seeing now is real HD, and what you saw before was not?

1. HD OTA stations show upconverted SD material most of the time, and only show true HD during prime time (at least, this is how my local stations do it). In addition, every once in awhile they forget to flip the switch and show HD programs in upconverted SD. I watched Jay Leno in SD a couple of times because of that.

2. Is it possible that your TV set was in some different mode before and was not showing the best possible picture?

3. Are you sure you were not using the wrong input (e.g. composite instead of DVI or component?

4. Which resolution mode is your STB set to? And which resolution has it been set to before?

5. You didn't mention which TV set you have. Most of CRT-based displays are unable to display 720p. Some of them down-convert 720p to lower resolutions. In such case, switching to 1080i could give you a WOW factor.

6. Maybe there was something wrong with the STB before, but now it has improved.

By the way, since you have two STBs, if you want to try something, you can switch them to see if there is a difference in PQ between the two.

 

[Vicki]

FYI What they mean:

EMM Providers: 1080/*** 1080 is the hex value of 4224 which is the STB ID for Cablevision. *** is the hex value for an individual channel ID, or group of channels.

Authorization Status (the major ones):

MP: Program Key is missing (usually present on locals, but can show up on others)
NS: Not Subscribed
SWO: Subscribed
RB: Regional Blackout

Thanks for the explanations, Bryan.

If 1080/*** is a channel or a group of channels, does it make sense that OTA channels would be in the same group with VOOM originals AMC, etc? These are the channels I showed on 159 on Friday:
Format Channel & Network EMM Providers (i.e., 1080, ***)
1080i 3.1 KCRA NBC 159
1080i 3.2 KCRA NBC 159
1080i 6-1 KVIE PBS 159
1080i 6-2 KVIE PBS 159
1080i 6-3 KVIE PBS 159
1080i 6-4 KVIE PBS 159
1080i 8-15 Inside Voom Voom 159
1080i 13.1 KOVR CBS 159
480i 13.2 KOVR CBS 159
480i 19.1 KUVS UNI 159
1080i 19.2 KUVS UNI 159
1080i 31.1 KMAX UPN 159
480i 285 AMC 159
480i 286 IFC 159
480i 287 TCM 159
1080i 521 TNT HD 159
1080i 999 Inside VOOM HD 159

The ones I bolded also had Auth Status of MP. Channels 8-15 and 13.1 had the WOW factor, and the pictures on the remaining bolded channels ranged from very good to poor, but a slight wind had started coming up by the time I was checking them.

Ilya mentioned in the original thread that the MP status might mean I need to reinitialize my STB, but what explains the WOW factor? And you say it's usually present on locals... I'm confused!

Has anyone had any success in opening the second zip file I sent yesterday?

 

[jawilljr]

It is called the Placebo effect.

Jerry