Pittsburgh-West (including Wheeling/Steubenville) Voomers

WQED used to broadcast on 13-3 13-4 13-5, and 13-6 back before voom offered scanning for channels, and came premapped. The main hd feed was on 13-3. So that's where voom mapped it and that's where the program guide info was.

But WQED wasn't showing up on Voom even with a signal strength in the 90's for me and for others. They were the only one not to be broadcasting on a -1 channel. So many of us surmised that the voom box exepected 13-1 even though it had 13-3 mapped.

Now that it scan's, and WQED has decided to broadcast on 13-1 to see if they could get their channel to come in on voom, the first day I saw it, the signal strength was too low. I haven't tried it again yet.

I hope they resolve this soon. Even on 13-3, it would come in on receivers other than voom's, even with a signal strength as low as 40.
 
WQED up and down

Well, for the last few days I've been able to watch WQED when the sun is down.
So late at night and early morning it comes in fine, with an excellent HD picture.
I get it on 13-2, not 13-1 as expected. The PG is still on 13-3 however.

One problem. After I leave for work in the morning, with PBS on for the kids, apparently then the signal drops, and then the box freezes up. So every day I come home to a washed out frozen PBS screen, and a box that needs rebooted.

I'm not sure of the signal level, day vs. night, as I'm a bit reluctant to check the status while things are fine, because this often seems to cause the lockup. Maybe this weekend I'll climb up and try to tweak the antenna to bring in WQED better - hopefully without losing my other OTAs.

Anyone experiencing anything simlar, day vs. night signal quality OTA?
 
I finally saw a program on 13-2 on WQED. The niagara falls special. It was a grainy picture. I was wondering if it was HD at all. It said PBS-HD in the upper left corner, but most people are putting there HD on -1 and their SD on -2. I wonder if WQED will be different. This was around 10pm or so. I tried to get it in on my upstairs receiver but that one still won't scan the 13-1 through 13-4 in.
 
WQED is finally back on with good signal strength

WQED - DT is back on the air tonight finally with a good signal strength. It wouldn't come in on 13-3, when that was the only voom mapped channel, and WQED was broadcasting on 13-3 through 13-6. Now with OTA scanning on the voom STB, and WQED broadcasting at 13-1 through 13-4, and with their signal strength finally back up in the mid 90's, it's coming in strong on 13-2. Now if they could only do the same with WQEX, whose strength is high but has no picture, I'd be all set!

Why WQED can come in on 13-2 and couldn't on 13-3, is a mystery I'd sure like to know the answer to. though.

Anyways, I'm glad to finally have it back, and hope they dedicate a serious amount of bandwidth to the best HDTV on the air in Pittsburgh. When is the next pledge break?! I'm all set to keep my promise to contribute when it came back on the air on voom.

:)
 
I'm getting 13 fairly well too lately. However sometimes my box locks up when viewing I watch this station too long. Maybe it's something QED puts in the signal for those who haven't pledged lately!

Also, once I reboot, I sometimes have a tough time getting the box back. I do what's recommended, i.e., I let the box sit for an hour or two before touching anything. Then I can view the satellite portion OK, but tuning to OTA will cause
additional freeze-ups. NOt always, but often enough to be a pain, especially when something important OTA is on , like playoff baseball.

Also strange is that last night I got Equator on channel 341, which I suppose is Floridas HD sports.
 
I'm getting equator up there too.

I never have problems with a reboot when watching WQED for too long. On reboot, I watch right away. PG takes forever to get repopulated (you'd think they would save this in some novolatile ram or something), but I don't have trouble getting back to any channels after a reboot, even ota.
 
Yeah - I'm starting to think that my box might be the problem. I'm using the DVI cable, perhaps that has something to do with it. Or maybe the diplexor. Just guessing at this point.
 
WQEX can normally be received down here when they are on the air. It doesn't scan in on the VOOM receiver since they don't send a station name. Still even at SD home shopping looks spectacular.

Hey, WTOV-Steubenville doubled it's power in December is anyone now receiving it? BTW WTAE is now at a full 1,000Kw and is very reliable down here.
 
Only 26 miles south of the city, and I've gotten almost everything with the batwing attick antenna, but this winter I was having trouble with 11 and 13. Some days they come in strong, some days not at all, others they float in an out. I rescanned this morning, no sign of some other channels. I'm still at 7.33 as well.
 
Scotty, Tim did you look at the Local Channels menu this morning? Pittsburgh was supposed to get the Super-DMA update last night. After checking the local channels menu and rebooting this morning I didn't get it.

I read that the Super DMA will include channels in which the FCC digital service contour reaches 10% of the DMA's zipcodes. Looking through the FCC coverage maps the only stations I could find that meet the criteria are WTOV-Steubenville and WNPB-Morgantown.

Hey Scotty, I've noticed seasonal changes in station reception too. I get many more stations in the summer. The stations I get all year are 2,4,9,11,13,22,53. If I turn the antenna I get 24-WNPB, when they are on the air I can get 16, and 40 comes in and out. Weather seems to affect OTA digital more than analog too.

If anyone is interested the stations have until tomorrow to choose which channel the want to keep. It usually takes a few days for the applications to be posted but so far we have:

KDKA will stay on ch.25 and shut off ch.2
WQED will move back to 13
WQEX will neither stay on 26 or 16 it will go on ch.38
WPCB will stay on 50 and shut of 40

The rest of the stations haven't been posted yet.
 
Just re-booted and re-scanned, and saw nothing new. Not sure if the DMA went through, or even if I would get anything else. I'm about 10 miles north of Pittsburgh.

Also, my box is still 7.33 - don't know if 7.34 is related to the DMA anyway.

Regarding my OTA reception - after resetting the antenna several times I can now reliably tune in the locals. Occasionally I get break-ups in wind, and rain/snow knocks a couple channels out (first 4, then 2, then 13). Also, if a truck rolls by the house, the signal breaks up momentarily!

:sleeo
 
I didn't look at my local channels menu, but isnt' this just the saved result of the scan inside the installer wizard menu's? I did the scan this am but did not get anything new. There was once a a long while ago, when they first added the scan feature that I got several additional channels that I know don't come from pittburgh. But I've since lost them. I could get 11 this am in the scan, but the 13 showed up in the scan even though it was dropping in and out picture wise.

Of the channels you listed, I don't get 9 in the summer but I get all the rest in your 1st list. Turning my atnenna is too much trouble for my lungs, to crawl around in my blow insulation attic. The joists are not load bearing either so I can't put up a floor in there. You'd think leaves in the summer would be block signals and gone in the winter would let them through but for some reason it appears to be the opposite.

Now when you say stay with channel or go with previous channel, do you mean psip ID? Or actual channel frequency? I though 13 was a VHF channel, so don't you need to be on a UHF channel frequency for the HD? I think all stations should be required to either identify themselves with their previous channel identity in PSIP (branding of many years) or have to switch to calling themselves the new channel number in PSIP. If everyone chooses different things its going to get confusing. And they should come up with a convention for PSIP call signs. Some put DT at the end, some put HD and SD when they have the two subchannels, and some put no suffix at all, like WPXI. Standardize on one thing and have everyone do it!

Anyone heard whether UPN is going to settle their channel disput with canada yet? Sure would be nice to have UPN on the air in Pittsburgh.

bryan27 said:
Scotty, Tim did you look at the Local Channels menu this morning? Pittsburgh was supposed to get the Super-DMA update last night. After checking the local channels menu and rebooting this morning I didn't get it.

I read that the Super DMA will include channels in which the FCC digital service contour reaches 10% of the DMA's zipcodes. Looking through the FCC coverage maps the only stations I could find that meet the criteria are WTOV-Steubenville and WNPB-Morgantown.

Hey Scotty, I've noticed seasonal changes in station reception too. I get many more stations in the summer. The stations I get all year are 2,4,9,11,13,22,53. If I turn the antenna I get 24-WNPB, when they are on the air I can get 16, and 40 comes in and out. Weather seems to affect OTA digital more than analog too.

If anyone is interested the stations have until tomorrow to choose which channel the want to keep. It usually takes a few days for the applications to be posted but so far we have:

KDKA will stay on ch.25 and shut off ch.2
WQED will move back to 13
WQEX will neither stay on 26 or 16 it will go on ch.38
WPCB will stay on 50 and shut of 40

The rest of the stations haven't been posted yet.
 
The local channels are put in by your channel map. In our case map 21-Pittsburgh. When you scan, additional channels are added and saved that weren't originally on the map. The new "super" map was supposed to be released for Pittsburgh yesterday, but it appears it wasn't sent.

I don't blame you for not wanting to turn the antenna :) mine is mounted on my deck and when it is really cold or snowing I don't want to go out and move it.

The "new" TV band is channels 2-51. There is debate as to if ch.2-6 is suitable for DTV operation. All stations in operation before 1990 were given an additional channel to operate their digital channel on during the transition. The stations must now choose which channel they want to keep. Stations may choose to keep their new channel and turn off their analog channel, turn off their digital channel and begin digital operation on their old analog channel, or turn off both their digital and analog channel and use a new channel which they have reached agreements to use.

The list I gave are the decisions the stations made as to which channel they are keeping and which they will cease operation on. KDKA will use CH.25 and shut off ch.2, WQED will shut off it's digital operation on ch.38 and begin digital operation on ch.13. WQEX will use ch.38 for digital which is where WQED is now located. WPCB will continue digital operation on ch.50 and shut off ch.40.

Posted today:

WPGH will use ch.43 and cease analog operation on ch.53 (which is outside of the new TV band).
WCWB will use ch.42 and will cease analog operation on ch.22 (WCWB could have chosen to shut off ch.42 and begin digital operation on 22)

When it comes to DTV UHF is best suited for the signal, but many stations will want to return chs.7-13 because the transmitt power only needs to be 10Kw (instead of 316Kw those channels now use). 2-6 isn't suited for DTV operation at all since that band is plagued with electrical interference which will disrupt the signal.

I don't agree with your "standardization" statement. Actually it is already pretty much standardized. DT=Digital Television (a catch all for a station airing different formats and is the required suffix to be used during a station's legal ID), HD=High Definition SD=Standard Definition ED=Enhanced Definition. It actually lets you know what your going to get on the channel.

The FCC doesn't regulate what a station has to put in the PSIP, just that one gets sent (eventually). IE: WPXI could put NBC-PIT if it wanted. Radio also has PSIP data if the station is sending a data subcarrier and you have a radio equiped to receive it. Depending on the program our station has put the call sign as the PSIP or the network as the PSIP.

The UPN saga. As stations are required to pick which channel they want to keep WNPA's application basically said it couldn't pick one becase it's new channel hasn't been approved. Some place the blame on WNPA for not going digital since they were given ch.35, but asked for a channel change to ch.49. They were not to blame as the FCC messed up the allocation of channels. The FCC gave WOUC which transmits from St.Clairsville, OH (about 15 minutes west of Wheeling, WV) ch.35. When WOUC completes construction it's Noise Limited DTV Contour will reach almost to Washington, PA. Had WNPA & WOUC both built on the same frequency the interference for everyone West of Meadowlands Race Track would have made reception of WNPA impossible.

The "rumor mill" has it that WNPA will go to ch.26 (where WQEX currently is). Thus co-owned KDKA & WNPA will be together 25/26.
 
bryan27 said:
The "new" TV band is channels 2-51. There is debate as to if ch.2-6 is suitable for DTV operation. All stations in operation before 1990 were given an additional channel to operate their digital channel on during the transition. The stations must now choose which channel they want to keep. Stations may choose to keep their new channel and turn off their analog channel, turn off their digital channel and begin digital operation on their old analog channel, or turn off both their digital and analog channel and use a new channel which they have reached agreements to use.

The list I gave are the decisions the stations made as to which channel they are keeping and which they will cease operation on. KDKA will use CH.25 and shut off ch.2, WQED will shut off it's digital operation on ch.38 and begin digital operation on ch.13. WQEX will use ch.38 for digital which is where WQED is now located. WPCB will continue digital operation on ch.50 and shut off ch.40.

Posted today:

WPGH will use ch.43 and cease analog operation on ch.53 (which is outside of the new TV band).
WCWB will use ch.42 and will cease analog operation on ch.22 (WCWB could have chosen to shut off ch.42 and begin digital operation on 22)

When it comes to DTV UHF is best suited for the signal, but many stations will want to return chs.7-13 because the transmitt power only needs to be 10Kw (instead of 316Kw those channels now use). 2-6 isn't suited for DTV operation at all since that band is plagued with electrical interference which will disrupt the signal.

where do you get this info? Is it freely available on the web? Is there an easily digestible writeup (like yours!) out there, or do I have to wade through dozens of FCC docs to get up to date on this tech? Where is the 2-6 debate raging? Do you think they will make the tv band 7-51? What every happened to channel 1? Why don't they just renumber the frequencies from 1-50?

bryan27 said:
I don't agree with your "standardization" statement. Actually it is already pretty much standardized. DT=Digital Television (a catch all for a station airing different formats and is the required suffix to be used during a station's legal ID), HD=High Definition SD=Standard Definition ED=Enhanced Definition. It actually lets you know what your going to get on the channel.

The FCC doesn't regulate what a station has to put in the PSIP, just that one gets sent (eventually). IE: WPXI could put NBC-PIT if it wanted. Radio also has PSIP data if the station is sending a data subcarrier and you have a radio equiped to receive it. Depending on the program our station has put the call sign as the PSIP or the network as the PSIP.

I just want to see something consistent. It's a no brainer when there are two subs, HD, and SD. Just take the station 4 letter call sign and add -HD or -SD. In the case of a station that decides not to use substations, let it just be -HD. Some stations choosing to use -DT, and other use -HD, and others like WPXI choosing not to append, makes it all pretty inconsistent. I guess it's not the most important thing in the world, but consistency is good.

bryan27 said:
The UPN saga. As stations are required to pick which channel they want to keep WNPA's application basically said it couldn't pick one becase it's new channel hasn't been approved. Some place the blame on WNPA for not going digital since they were given ch.35, but asked for a channel change to ch.49. They were not to blame as the FCC messed up the allocation of channels. The FCC gave WOUC which transmits from St.Clairsville, OH (about 15 minutes west of Wheeling, WV) ch.35. When WOUC completes construction it's Noise Limited DTV Contour will reach almost to Washington, PA. Had WNPA & WOUC both built on the same frequency the interference for everyone West of Meadowlands Race Track would have made reception of WNPA impossible.

The "rumor mill" has it that WNPA will go to ch.26 (where WQEX currently is). Thus co-owned KDKA & WNPA will be together 25/26.

I thought someone mentioned it all had to do with an problem probelm with canada. Seems its more than just that. I sure hope they solve it soon.
 
Before I go on into some things Scotty was asking I just wanted to let everyone know that WQEX-DT is back up and sending full PSIP data and you should be able to scan it in. Yep, I know it is home shopping, but it is another channel and makes good background noise. For some reason when I'm so sick I can't get out of bed or confined to the couch I'll watch this stuff as it is something that doesn't need concentration.

What I am also excited about is that WQEX is licensed with 50Kw and it booms in down here with an 89. Ok, so what? Well the new FCC rules for LPTV and Class-A TV is that those stations may use upto 30Kw. So if WQEX is at 50Kw I can expect to receive WBGN-LP and any other LPTV/Class-A stations transmitting at 30Kw from the WQEX/WQED tower and points west at probably an 85 or above. BTW I already receive WNEU (ch.63) which transmits in analog from Green Tree Hill.

Now on to Scotty's questions.

Scotty said:
where do you get this info? Is it freely available on the web? Is there an easily digestible writeup (like yours!) out there, or do I have to wade through dozens of FCC docs to get up to date on this tech? Where is the 2-6 debate raging? Do you think they will make the tv band 7-51? What every happened to channel 1? Why don't they just renumber the frequencies from 1-50?

Most of the time I get my information from the broadcasting trade papers. I don't remember if I had mentioned that I own broadcast stations so I get the pubs free, they cost an arm and a leg for everyone else. You can see our Wheeling station at http://wvjw.info I also confirm things with FCC documents. You can find infromation from weeding through the FCC, but most of it is rather technical and not easily digestable by the general public.

The 2-6 debate is raging on several FCC dockets. Sometimes keeping up with them all is difficult. I'm a party to a FCC docket requesting 82.1-87.9 MHz (channel 6) to be allocated to FM Broadcasting. There are other dockets requesting 2-5 to be allocated to public services (IE: Police, Fire, etc...)
Do I think the TV band will be 7-51? I would say the possibility is very high.

From what I have seen very few stations want to operate digital on ch.2-6. WTAE's channel choice was posted the other day and they chose 51!!!!

So what happened to ch.1? Urban legend says it was deleted so that no station could say they were #1, but of couse that is legend and there is no truth in it. The TV and FM bands have moved around a couple times. KDKA was once on ch.3 and when the TV Band was shifted again it was on ch.2. When ch.1 existed it was on 48-54MHz (right above today's ch.2). This is very close to the beginning of the shortwave bands (actually today's ch2-6 have some shortwave propogation properties). When FM Radio was developed 48-54MHz was removed from TV service and the FM Broadcasting band was 47-52MHz. The propogation of this band proved unsuitable and the FM band was shifted to 88.1-107.9 and the frequencies 48-54MHz were allocated to amateur radio.

Why weren't the channels renumbered starting with 1. Well technically there still is a ch.1 it is allocated for amateur radio. There is something that most in the general public do not know. Nearly all frequencies under FCC jurisdiction have channel numbers. For instance our station is 94.1 FM however 94.1 is just our center frequency the station is allocated to use 94.0-94.3MHz and 94.0-94.3 is Ch.231

Why not re-number the channels as 1-50, well it's kind of like why bother shifting channel numbers by 1 and creating confusion (that's just my opinion). I'm sure if the band becomes 7-51 there will be some kind of renumbering.

I just want to see something consistent. It's a no brainer when there are two subs, HD, and SD. Just take the station 4 letter call sign and add -HD or -SD. In the case of a station that decides not to use substations, let it just be -HD. Some stations choosing to use -DT, and other use -HD, and others like WPXI choosing not to append, makes it all pretty inconsistent. I guess it's not the most important thing in the world, but consistency is good.
Think of it this way. This is the government we are dealing with when have they ever been consistent :)
I thought someone mentioned it all had to do with an problem probelm with canada. Seems its more than just that. I sure hope they solve it soon.
Yes, there is a lot more than just a problem with Canada. This is what I think will happen. There will be 3 channel election rounds. The first election round period has completed. Those stations choosing their permanent channel do not get to choose in the remaing rounds.

Stations who have either their analog or digital outside the new TV band, those stations where both their analog and digital are outside the new TV band, or stations that have a digital or analog operation on ch.2-6 could delay their choice and choose to wait till round 2 and choose a different channel that another station could have used. For example WNPA basically is waiting for round 2 to pick a channel. The channels available for choosing would be 11, 16, 19, 22, 26, and 40 as stations operating on these channels chose not to use those channels.

What we do know is that Viacom wants WNPA to be closer to Pittsburgh (actually they want the transmitter between WQED and WPCB), but it can't use ch.19 to get there since ch.19 is allocated to Cleveland and the stations would be too close together. If I owned WNPA I would take ch.11 since WPXI doesn't want it, but what I really think it will choose is ch.26. Why? WQEX is already operating on Ch.26 which is adjacent to KDKA-25, and they can probably buy the used equipment for ch.26 from WQED on the cheap.
 
Thanks Bryan, for the interesting writeup. I enjoyed getting more of the details. It's always fun to hear the history of a technical subject like this, and see what motivated the participants to follow a particular path vs another.

As far as this round of choices goes, when is it due to wrap up? Also, from a branding standpoint, if I were choosing a new channel number, I'd want to stay away from numbers that were used by other stations in the past, if I could. Just cause confusion if the upn affilliate say picked the unused channel 11, because the nbc, went to 48 and gave up 11, here in pittsburgh.

And for these stations that are giving up there old channel number: I used to see bugs on screen that try to do new branding at their digital channel number, like the nbc folks put an nbc-dt logo up with 48 in it, but then almost everyone started broadcasting their identity on the digital channels as their old analog channel number for reasons of continuing the brand identity, I thought. Now, if they choose there new digital number and its not the same as their old analog number, will they be allowed to continue to identify themselves by their old analog number?

Also, since our conversation about psip naming conventions started, the station(s) that were missing a suffix, have now added one, in my latest scans. I got 7.37 just the other day, and I noticed it when I rescanned for locals.
 
timjf said:
Scheduled for tonight!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=47521

Let 's see what we get. Currently I pick up 2,4,11,13,22 and 53. Not expecting anything else - but we'll see.

What antenna are you using?

I just had Voom installed last week and I can't pickup 4 or 22. Well 22 comes in some days and not others. I pickup 53 perfect (97-101 strength), which looks like its in the same location as the 22 antenna.
 
Scotty said:
As far as this round of choices goes, when is it due to wrap up? Also, from a branding standpoint, if I were choosing a new channel number, I'd want to stay away from numbers that were used by other stations in the past, if I could. Just cause confusion if the upn affilliate say picked the unused channel 11, because the nbc, went to 48 and gave up 11, here in pittsburgh.

I'll have to check to see when all the channel choice rounds are over. The current one is done. I didn't think of the confusion it may cause if another station poped up on an old channel, but the FCC's intention is to allocate and auction the channels that weren't chosen.

And for these stations that are giving up there old channel number: I used to see bugs on screen that try to do new branding at their digital channel number, like the nbc folks put an nbc-dt logo up with 48 in it, but then almost everyone started broadcasting their identity on the digital channels as their old analog channel number for reasons of continuing the brand identity, I thought. Now, if they choose there new digital number and its not the same as their old analog number, will they be allowed to continue to identify themselves by their old analog number?

I think in the beginning stations didn't know what they were going to do. I do know one reason stations but those 24/7 bugs up is that they didn't want to pay anyone to work master control for the digital station.

I have noticed when WPXI-11 goes in the corner it now gets covered up with WPXI-48 for a portion of the time. Also on my Zenith STB it doesn't get moved to 11.1 but stays at 48.1.

The legal station call sign is Call-Sign Followed by City Of License (COL). Stations may insert ch. number and or name of the licensee between the Call-sign and COL. In televison is can be aural and/or visual. I have noticed that stations are getting a bit creative during the transition such as WCWB and WPGH putting the ID so small in the left corner you can barely make it out. I have seen other stations in other markets ID using their broadcast and cable channel numbers and the FCC not saying anything about it. So it is possible to see an ID like "WTAE 4/51 Pittsburgh." I think the FCC is ignoring things that aren't major during the transition. The only thing they have said about IDing is that -DT is part of the call sign and it must be presented.

Also, since our conversation about psip naming conventions started, the station(s) that were missing a suffix, have now added one, in my latest scans. I got 7.37 just the other day, and I noticed it when I rescanned for locals.

There were some things in the PSIP data that stations had to start doing. This may have been one of those things. I didn't notice when I scanned the other day. I'll have to scan later and look. I did notice on my Zenith STB that stations are starting to send some on screen PSIP data such as if the program is CC, simulcast in another language, and the program rating. Depending on what data is sent my Zenith STB puts the channel name, type of audio, and station logo (if one is sent and stored in the memory) on the upper right and any program information on the upper left.

Oh, I messed up what the old FM frequencys were. When I finish working I'll post a link to a place at the FCC that has historical documents. It's really cool reading.
 
Zombie, about where are you located and what kind of antenna are you using. Ch.4 used to be a problem for almost everyone, but they are now at maximum power. Chs. 2,11,22,53 are all on the North Side, 13,16 in Oakland, and 4,40 are way to the south near Westmorland County.
 

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