Dish 3rd Quarter 2014 10Q

But they will pay - just for different packaging. Cord cutting is a "deal" now because every player is in loss leader/grab market share mode, subsidized by all the traditional revenue. Average prices will equalize, closer to today's pay tv rates than the current cord-cutter rates. The question is can Dish/NuTV make it through the transition.

Either way, there is plenty of money to be made with linear TV over the next decade or more. I don't think Charlie is losing any sleep.
It was Charlie who five years ago said that the current sat/cable model is mature and declining. That is why he is trying to go with mobile video over cell phones. He wants to buy or merge with a cell phone company -most likely T-mobile. HE sees this as the future since most young people love their I-phones and Androids. IF he can sell NuTv over these phones he will reel in the younger people that do NOT want traditional pay tv. Which is why NuTv will have a price point around $30.00 a month. He isn't losing sleep over his present model, because he is planning for the transition to ott applications and possibly merging with a cell phone company. Charlie is always thinking of the future and the next big thing. That is why he has been successful for so many years.
 
If you have a single Hopper, you pay a $12 DVR fee. Actually you are paying $12 for each Hopper including the first one.

My bill shows :
DVR Fee = $12
Super Joey =$10

My setup is one HWS + Super Joey. Joey would be $7.
Dish really gets you with fees. I pay $55 per month in fees alone, that is for four Hoppers, one Joey and the DVR fee, it's not as bad as some cable companies that I have seen, but still plenty.
I can remember about 20 years ago, I subscribed to everything available on TVRO, except for the RSN's for $500 per YEAR. Of course there was nothing like DVRs back then much less whole home.
 
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I agree fees are getting crazy, but as you said others are more, sometimes I play with the Comcast site for a "similar" set up of two hoppers and a joey, whoa! Talk about high and really no close set up from Comcast
 
Dish really gets you with fees. I pay $55 per month in fees alone, that is for four Hoppers, one Joey and the DVR fee, it's not as bad as some cable companies that I have seen, but still plenty.
I can remember about 20 years ago, I subscribed to everything available on TVRO, except for the RSN's for $500 per YEAR. Of course there was nothing like DVRs back then much less whole home.

Four 2-tuner Whole-home DVRs from TimeWarnerCable would cost me approximately $90/month in equipment fees. Dish is cheap in comparison, and the product is so much better.
 
If these fees are to high and out of line, how come their profits are not more? My thinking is, customers who want more, will pay more, to subsidize those who want less. After all, with it being a luxury, if you want the 55' yacht, with all the fixings, you are going to pay significantly more than the guy that just wants a boat on the water for the weekend.
 
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I have been wondering the same thing. There was a time when there were not hardly any "fees" like we see today and they made a profit back then. They should be making all kinds of money these days with all the extra fees that they can keep for themselves and not have to pay the programmers.
 
I have been wondering the same thing. There was a time when there were not hardly any "fees" like we see today and they made a profit back then. They should be making all kinds of money these days with all the extra fees that they can keep for themselves and not have to pay the programmers.
Well there are some on this board , well at least one that I know of , that every time I speak about the high cost of fees , always says that he knows that the fees are being used to subsidize some of the costs of the channels themselves. I say this is hogwash ,because these fees are created by DISH and they charge what they want for them. They can make them, drop them and then bring them back, like the HD fee after 24 month commitment expires . Although now I hear that they have changed their minds again and are offering FREE HD for Life to new customers.

These fees are nothing more than revenue generators for DISH. There was a time, in the early 2000s, when Charlie said something similar to this: The other guy charges you $9.00 a month to use their pvr /dvr , DISH offers you a pvr/dvr for tapeless recording for FREE. This is when DISH added subs at a terrific rate then and they grew the company and its influence. This forced DIRECTV to drop their dvr fee down to around $4.99 a month form $9.00. Then Charlie decided he was "leaving change on the table". So then came the DVR fee and then it went up and up and up . It was charged per DVR receiver and it still is ,but it is hidden in the additional receiver fees on Vip receivers. The hopper has a $12.00 dvr fee, while the second 722k on your account will charge you $17.00 a month. With my 4 room setup( hopper,super joey and two joeys ) I pay $36.00 a month ,which is 1/2 of what I pay in programming monthly. This is too high. DISH could offer all these fees at a smaller monthly amount or even offer subs the chance to buy the joey equipment outright for no monthly fees- like Tivo is doing with their mini Tivos units( similar to the joeys ).

These fees are now what is causing many people to cut the cord or to never take pay tv in the first place. I've said it before and once again I will say it: DISH is fighting a losing proposition. The demographics are killing them. The younger generation is not subscribing to pay tv and never plan too. The older generation that is subscribing to sat /cable is literally dieing out day by day. The time is coming where they might have to decide what is more important to them. Do they want more people subscribing to DISH by offering the best low priced programming packs and the smallest fees, or do they want a dwindling subscriber base paying ever increasing equipment and miscellaneous DISH created FEES that will cause more and more of those subs to cut the cord. IF they don't figure this out soon there won't be a future for satellite tv ,because it will be just too high for the masses to afford.
 
Again, I love how we give advice on how to run a multibilion dollar company, while complaining about how it costs to much....
 
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The whole problem is both Dish and Directv are hiding the true cost of their service behind a $29.99 promotional rate that doubles in the second year and requires a 2 year agreement.

The cable companies give you a promotional rate for 12 months with no contract.

The satellite companies do the same, but lock you into 2 years and expect you to pay full price for 1 year.

It's a tough sell especially when you have to be Honest and disclose the second year price because the customer is signing a 2 year contract.

The fees are getting out of control also.

You know why both dish and directv give you the movie channels free for 3 months? So the cost of the movie channels isn't a factor when you price things out.

You can quote out choice at $29.99 and if you want HBO it's free for 3 months and then you can worry about paying the $17.99 later.
 
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Again, I love how we give advice on how to run a multibilion dollar company, while complaining about how it costs to much....
It's called the point of diminishing returns. Every customer reaches it sooner or later and they decide whether it is worth it to keep paying more and more every year for the same few channels that they do watch. Between the yearly programming hikes and or the equipment and various other fees , a sub has very little control and can only cut what they subscribe to and drop extra equipment.

I can give advice about how to run the Multi-billion dollar company because I have been in working in the business world since 78 at age 16. I have an associate degree in management and one in criminal justice . I have worked in restaurant management , grocery store management, security and correctional officer management in those 36 years. I have not only given my superiors advice , they took it and have profited from it. The same trends in these businesses and industries apply to all companies- Even satellite .

The law of supply and demand applies to all businesses.If you charge too high for your product , the volume of customers drops as well as the demand for your product. DISH has always been the low priced economy product for middle class and even poorer classes of customers. DISH used to cater to these classes of consumers. Now they have decided to still cater to them,but charge higher and higher prices for their equipment and or other sundry miscellaneous fees they create. Some years we have no programming increase but the equipment prices went up. DISH has been stuck around the same 14 million mark for years and they hovered around 13 million for years before that. When they first started it wasn't uncommon to add a million subs in a year ,sometimes 2 million. That was when DISH was trying to really grow their company. Now since the satellite and cable industry is mature, it is like they only care about extorting as much as they can in fees on their existing ,dwindling subs. As I have stated, this is like a race to the bottom ,because it makes existing subs decide to cut the cord and they either churn to the competition or never come back period. You can not continue to exist as a profitable company if all you do is go up on the programming and the equipment fees every year. Eventually you will lose all your subs , sell out to another company or go out of business. Especially since millennials are not subscribing to pay tv and do not ever plan to. With no new base of subs to take your service and the elderly generations dieing out day by day ,you are in a race to 0 fast.

Businesses like Sears/Kmart, JCPenny , Radio Shack are on the brink of total collapse . Other examples Walmart is doing poorly as well for like the last 3 - 5 quarters for various reasons, McDonalds for the last 3 quarters as well and we all know what happened to Blockbuster . The need to change what they are doing wrong and once again provide good value and service to their customers at a reasonable price or they will all be out of business too. Satellite /cable and other pay tv industries need to adapt too and change what they are doing wrong or they will price themselves out of business too. I've seen it happen to other businesses in my life time and I am sure I will see even more by the time I'm done.
 
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If dish wasn't adaptingg, as you mention, then NUTv wouldn't be getting discussed here. Charlie wouldn't be trying to buy a wireless company, and you would see a pause in innovation, such as DTV. DTV has gone a seperate route, going after pro sports, but even still don't care if they sell to ATT. I'm extremely impressed with the associates degrees, however I can almost guarantee those decision makers up in dishes offices are sitting with a minimum of bachelors(doubtful the actual decision makers have less than a masters). I'm sure they have a resume twice as impressive, so I hold the same opinion. Especially as it comes acrossed a forum.
Dish is still the lowest provider, is still growing their service options, and with release of NUTv, will corner that market. I don't think Charlie is too concerned there.
 
Well there are some on this board , well at least one that I know of , that every time I speak about the high cost of fees , always says that he knows that the fees are being used to subsidize some of the costs of the channels themselves. I say this is hogwash ,because these fees are created by DISH and they charge what they want for them. They can make them, drop them and then bring them back, like the HD fee after 24 month commitment expires . Although now I hear that they have changed their minds again and are offering FREE HD for Life to new customers.

These fees are nothing more than revenue generators for DISH. There was a time, in the early 2000s, when Charlie said something similar to this: The other guy charges you $9.00 a month to use their pvr /dvr , DISH offers you a pvr/dvr for tapeless recording for FREE. This is when DISH added subs at a terrific rate then and they grew the company and its influence. This forced DIRECTV to drop their dvr fee down to around $4.99 a month form $9.00. Then Charlie decided he was "leaving change on the table". So then came the DVR fee and then it went up and up and up . It was charged per DVR receiver and it still is ,but it is hidden in the additional receiver fees on Vip receivers. The hopper has a $12.00 dvr fee, while the second 722k on your account will charge you $17.00 a month. With my 4 room setup( hopper,super joey and two joeys ) I pay $36.00 a month ,which is 1/2 of what I pay in programming monthly. This is too high. DISH could offer all these fees at a smaller monthly amount or even offer subs the chance to buy the joey equipment outright for no monthly fees- like Tivo is doing with their mini Tivos units( similar to the joeys ).

These fees are now what is causing many people to cut the cord or to never take pay tv in the first place. I've said it before and once again I will say it: DISH is fighting a losing proposition. The demographics are killing them. The younger generation is not subscribing to pay tv and never plan too. The older generation that is subscribing to sat /cable is literally dieing out day by day. The time is coming where they might have to decide what is more important to them. Do they want more people subscribing to DISH by offering the best low priced programming packs and the smallest fees, or do they want a dwindling subscriber base paying ever increasing equipment and miscellaneous DISH created FEES that will cause more and more of those subs to cut the cord. IF they don't figure this out soon there won't be a future for satellite tv ,because it will be just too high for the masses to afford.


I do not know everything about and the TV industry I really think you need to get a job in this industry and truly see what it's like. It's easy to be on the customer side of things and just keep saying how you're getting screwed but have you honestly looked at the industry as a whole and tried to figure out how these companies make a profit? Do you have any idea of what their expenses are? Like I said before, I don't know exactly for sure either but I think I have a better grasp on this business than most.
 
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If dish wasn't adaptingg, as you mention, then NUTv wouldn't be getting discussed here. Charlie wouldn't be trying to buy a wireless company, and you would see a pause in innovation, such as DTV. DTV has gone a seperate route, going after pro sports, but even still don't care if they sell to ATT. I'm extremely impressed with the associates degrees, however I can almost guarantee those decision makers up in dishes offices are sitting with a minimum of bachelors(doubtful the actual decision makers have less than a masters). I'm sure they have a resume twice as impressive, so I hold the same opinion. Especially as it comes acrossed a forum.
Dish is still the lowest provider, is still growing their service options, and with release of NUTv, will corner that market. I don't think Charlie is too concerned there.

My wife has a bachelors degree in education. She is very book smart, not so much common sense smart. I still love her anyway. In every business and industry I have worked at , I have run into these type of people. In college it was the same way and I found a lot of what I learned in the classes ,didn't actually apply once I hit the real world. These book smart people know little about making the actual business run correctly in real life,only on paper in charts ,graphs and in books. Yes, I am sure that Charlie has these type of people working in his company ,but I am also sure that Charlie doesn't ultimately depend on them when he makes all his decisions.


Charlie is a gambler who likes to win ,but more than not , he loses. Look at all those multi year lawsuits DISH has had going . Tivo lawsuit that went on for years and he ultimately lost and he paid a lot of money to license the software ,they claimed he stole in the first place. The buyout of Blockbuster was an ultimate failure because he shuddered the entire business and all he got was the Blockbuster name to add to his DISH company to use for streaming. NuTv is an idea that he hopes will attract the younger millenials ,that have never subbed to pay tv and will most likely never do so in the future. If it works , he might attract some of these people and give his new venture a new demographic to pull from for revenue. But like all pay tv, NuTv is dependent on the same greedy infrastructure as the regular pay tv. So the $30.00 price point he charges now , will ultimately go up over time,making people who want to save money drop them over ever increasing costs as well.

One thing I have learned over the years ,is that you must listen to the little guys who work under you as well as your customers. IF you don't, you miss out on some good ideas that help streamline your work,increase your production for better sales and even build your business for years to come with customers whose ideas you take and incorporate into your business. Charlie is smart in one way that I respect. He has people from DISH who read these web boards and uses them to pull ideas and suggestions for his company, promos, etc. The HD for life promo years back was an idea that I and others floated on this board. Shortly after ward DISH ran this promo as their new campaign. Charlie also uses many of our members on this site to test his software and new equipment for DISH as well.

Charlie is very smart ,sometimes reckless, a gambler ,but always he is on the cusp of some cutting edge new trend or technology. It is for that last reason that I have always kept DISH and look forward to the newest stuff from DISH. So when I say the prices of his FEES are way too high, I am sure that he and others from DISH read this . What they choose to do with this is their decision ,but it comes from a real customer for almost 18 years who has a lot of money and time invested in their company. They can continue to ignore this idea if they want ,but I will continue to suggest it ,because it is the right thing to do for the long run for their company. IF they want to continue to grow as a company they need to get back to the idea of DISH being the low priced leader and that also means in equipment and dvr fees as well.


IF you look at this last quarter DISH lost 12,000 subs. This was after the decisions to charge $12.00 for the 2nd hopper from the original $7.00 they originally charged. Also the decision to once again charge the $10.00 hd access fee after the 24 month commitment was up ,was a factor, because it encouraged churn with a capital C. (Supposedly DISH has since reversed this policy again & have brought back FREE HD for Life) Now since they came out with these wonderful ideas to make extra money, they have hurt their total subscriber numbers. Short time revenue increased but long time prospects decreases because they cause churn. DISH churn rates went up from 1.66 last year 3rd quarter to 1.67 this year 3rd quarter. These short term decisions to make quick money sound good to the bean counters at companies but they don't always help build a customer base. IF anything it helps to decrease it. It takes both low priced programming and low priced equipment and dvr fees to make it work for most regular customers as well as potential customers.
 
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My wife has a bachelors degree in education. She is very book smart, not so much common sense smart. I still love her anyway. In every business and industry I have worked at , I have run into these type of people. In college it was the same way and I found a lot of what I learned in the classes ,didn't actually apply once I hit the real world. These book smart people know little about making the actual business run correctly in real life,only on paper in books. Yes, I am sure that Charlie has these type of people working in his company ,but I am also sure that Charlie doesn't ultimately depend on them when he makes all his decisions.


Charlie is a gambler who likes to win ,but more than not , he loses. Look at all those multi year lawsuits DISH has had going . Tivo lawsuit that went on for years and he ultimately lost and he paid a lot of money to license the software ,they claimed he stole in the first place. The buyout of Blockbuster was an ultimate failure because he shuddered the entire business and all he got was the Blockbuster name to add to his DISH company to use for streaming. NuTv is an idea that he hopes will attract the younger millenials ,that have never subbed to pay tv and will most likely never do so in the future. If it works , he might attract some of these people and give his new venture a new demographic to pull from for revenue. But like all pay tv, NuTv is dependent on the same greedy infrastructure as the regular pay tv. So the $30.00 price point he charges now , will ultimately go up over time,making people who want to save money drop them over ever increasing costs as well.

One thing I have learned over the years ,is that you must listen to the little guys who work under you as well as your customers. IF you don't, you miss out on some good ideas that help streamline your work,increase your production for better sales and even build your business for years to come with customers whose ideas you take and incorporate into your business. Charlie is smart in one way that I respect. He has people from DISH who read these web boards and uses them to pull ideas and suggestions for his company, promos, etc. The HD for life promo years back was an idea that I and other floated on this board. Shortly after ward DISH ran this promo as their new campaign. Charlie also uses many of our members on this site to test his software and new equipment for DISH as well.

Charlie is very smart ,sometimes reckless, a gambler ,but always he is on the cusp of some cutting edge new trend or technology. It is for that last reason that I have always kept DISH and look forward to the newest stuff from DISH. So when I say the prices of his FEES are way too high, I am sure that he and others from DISH read this . What they choose to do with this is their decision ,but it comes from a real customer for almost 18 years who has a lot of money and time invested in their company. They can continue to ignore this idea if they want ,but I will continue to suggest it ,because it is the right thing to do for the long run for their company. IF they want to continue to grow as a company they need to get back to the idea of DISH being the low priced leader and that also means in equipment and dvr fees as well.


IF you look at this last quarter DISH lost 12,000 subs. This was after the decisions to charge $12.00 for the 2nd hopper from the original $7.00 they originally charged. Also the decision to once again charge the $10.00 hd access fee after the 24 month commitment was up ,was a factor, because it encouraged churn with a capital C. Now since they came out with these wonderful ideas to make extra money they have hurt their total subscriber numbers. These short term decisions to make quick money sound good to the bean counters at companies but they don't always help build a customer base. IF anything it helps to decrease it. It takes both low priced programming and low priced equipment and dvr fees to make it work for most regular customers as well as potential customers.

The thing with being a low price leader for any field is some where there are sacrifices, and usually that is in payroll and benefits. when you have crap pay and benefits you end up with a high turnover rate with this turn over rate comes a lack of experience which results in a crap product or service being offered.

in the year I have been working for the company I have seen a dozen techs come and go just out of my shop.
I am one of those that looks every week for a new job and when the first outfit that offers relocation benefits I am gone.
Dish doesnt pay for 15 years of experience as a comm/electronic tech/electrician or the stacks of licenses and certifications that I have, they do not pay me any extra because I speak spanish and its useful when dealing with Hispanic customers.
Then to top it off Dish keeps pushing additional work and duties on you without any increase in pay.
 
If these fees are to high and out of line, how come their profits are not more? My thinking is, customers who want more, will pay more, to subsidize those who want less. After all, with it being a luxury, if you want the 55' yacht, with all the fixings, you are going to pay significantly more than the guy that just wants a boat on the water for the weekend.

Time Warner Cable just made a profit of half a billion dollars in the most recent quarter, and the analysts called it "the latest in a string of awful earnings reports” http://online.wsj.com/articles/time-warner-cable-profit-drops-as-subscriptions-wane-1414665965

Anyone else see anything wrong with this state of affairs?
 
The thing with being a low price leader for any field is some where there are sacrifices, and usually that is in payroll and benefits. when you have crap pay and benefits you end up with a high turnover rate with this turn over rate comes a lack of experience which results in a crap product or service being offered.

in the year I have been working for the company I have seen a dozen techs come and go just out of my shop.
I am one of those that looks every week for a new job and when the first outfit that offers relocation benefits I am gone.
Dish doesnt pay for 15 years of experience as a comm/electronic tech/electrician or the stacks of licenses and certifications that I have, they do not pay me any extra because I speak spanish and its useful when dealing with Hispanic customers.
Then to top it off Dish keeps pushing additional work and duties on you without any increase in pay.

What you describe is the same short time thinking that is destroying Walmart from within. Low pay ,workers are expendable and dissatisfaction for that comes from that fact are all filtered down to the customers who feel it first hand when they come in contact with a representative from the company. I feel it every time I walk in to Walmart and I used to work for them for a few weeks in 2011 and 1993 when I went to college one summer. It is a shame that companies don't practice the "golden rule" in business ,not just in church. Treating people the way you would like to be treated, builds good relationships that are translated across the board, the company the customers and everyone benefits. COSTCO is a wonderful example of this in real life . Their people make about $40,000 a year to be a clerk. Costco is doing great in sales and continues to expand and grow ,while Walmart, the cheapskates are closing stores and no one wants to work for them.
 
Well as many of you remember I was a huge dish supporter till they jacked up the extra receiver fees. 5 buck to 17 buck a month extra receiver fee made me leave, and my boxes were owned......

dish is peeing in their own well.

the fee to return leased boxes, is just plain stupid, if they ever want old subs back.

apparently they do want me back, judging by all the promos mailed to me. all sorts of offeres, even after sending them a nice registered letter informing them our business realtionship ended years ago, I would be happy to sue them under the do not call law...

I get on average 2 to 3 mailings from them every week. one day last week I got 2 seperate offerings on the same day. trees are dying to be turned into paper for a service I hate, and will never ever subscribe too again!

Incidentl;y were are on comcast and have been since dish fee jacking occured............

At that time I bout a lifetime TIVO, a series 3 and also a premiere. They work awesome:) Unlike the bug ridden dish boxes.....

The 4 buck a month cable card fee is a nice bargain:) in comparison to dishes 17 buck cost.

I do admit we are looking at cutting the cord. The problem is finding a internet provider thats affordable and as reliable as comcast, and no I DONT want FIOS! they were DJ()%&#@!#@%$^&*&(
 

I have to go to source channel for HD?

NFL channel

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