Distant Network Shutoff on December 1st?

[Greg Bimson]

From Multichannel.com, an article relating to the loss of the distant network license, written by Ted Hearn:

CBS HD IMPACT

Separately, EchoStar has a deal that allows it to offer the high definition feed of a CBS affiliate to any household within a market that includes a CBS-owned affiliate. But the injunction would doom that in about 20 major markets.

So why would Dish Network pay $100 million to the affiliate boards? In order to keep the license not for the distant networks, but for the others services that are attached to the license:

“Among their bouquet of core HDTV services, the CBS [deal] is probably the most viewed, it’s the most important,” according to Jimmy Schaeffler, senior financial and consulting analyst with The Carmel Group, who has been involved in legal matters for and against EchoStar in the last decade. “If you lose that, then you’ve lost a core sales tool for a part of your service which you consider the most important going forward and that is the HD channel.”

The loss of the distant CBS in HD is important, but now the inability of ever using the distant license for ABC, NBC and Fox in HD is just as important. Dish Network will not get the rural customers network HD any longer. Also...

The injunction would prevent EchoStar from providing what are called “significantly viewed” stations. These are popular TV stations seen by viewers who live outside the official boundary of a market, but within range of the stations’ signals, according to Seth Davidson, a cable and copyright attorney at Fleischman and Walsh in Washington, D.C.

This public service message was brought to you by the always incorrect Greg Bimson.

 

[Hall]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you (the whole "issue" means nothing to me as I don't get distant nets, nor CBS-HD), but this is nothing more than these people's opinions. Are they right ?? Maybe.... Are they wrong ?? Maybe....

 

[odbrv]

From another forum:
Senate Bill S.2644, Which Was Passed In Nov 04 Said,"this Legislation Gives The Federal Communications Commission Two Years To Develop A Map Of The United States That Shows Which Households Do Not Receive A Digital Over The Air Signal". Consumers In Areas That Are Not Able To Receive A Digital Signal Will Be Eligible To Receive A National High Definition Network Feeds For Nbc, Cbs, Abc, And Fox. This Can Only Be Done, However, If The Satellite Company First Provides The Local Analog Stations. This Is Called The Digital White Area. This Bill Was Introduced By Senator John Ensign Of Nevada. This Bill Was Adopted As Part Of The Omnibus Spending Bill Approved By The U.s. Senate.

Does the current injunction stop E* from ever giving Network digital/HD to those in the above digital white area? This Map is due in Nov. 2006. Maybe there is hope to get distant HD networks for all E* subs who get local SD but not HD.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you (the whole "issue" means nothing to me as I don't get distant nets, nor CBS-HD), but this is nothing more than these people's opinions. Are they right ?? Maybe.... Are they wrong ?? Maybe....

No, I don't believe it is people's opinions. At this point, I am pretty sure that if one reads the injunctive order by the judge, that the conclusion ends up with Dish Network being barred from retransmitting ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX affiliates from using the license contained in section 17 USC 119 of the United States Code. The problem is that the analog distant networks, the digital distant networks, and the significantly-viewed networks are all tied to that license. Barring use of the license effectively stops Dish Network from providing the distant networks, CBS in HD into distant markets, and all significantly-viewed stations that are affiliated with the big four networks.

Does the current injunction stop E* from ever giving Network digital/HD to those in the above digital white area?

YES!!!

That is, until a new bill is drawn up in Congress and signed into law by the President. Of course, Congress could override a Presidential veto (thank you Schoolhouse Rock).

 

[minnow]

Those that wonder if CBS HD is also a part of this injunction could call Dish or email ceo@echostar.com and ask this same question.

 

[LLodge2]

So what about the CWs & My Network?

Based upon a recent court ruling, on December 1st, 2006, there will be
some changes to your DISH Network programming. Rest assured, you will be
able to continue to receive your local networks and other great
programming that DISH Network currently provides. Unfortunately, we will
be no longer able to provide Distant Networks to customers regardless of
past qualifications.

Distant networks are the ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX broadcast channels that
originate from a market outside the community in which our customers
live. Federal law prohibits all satellite and cable companies from
providing these channels to consumers except in very limited
circumstances.

The local ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX network programming in your market will
not be affected.

Our customer service representatives do not have any additional
information. Over the next few days, tune to channel 240 or visit
www.dishnetwork.com to learn more.

We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for being a loyal DISH
Network customer.

I have been told alternatively by DISH supervisors that KTLA, etc. are subject to the cutoff and that they are not subject to the cutoff. Does anyone have any idea as to whether or not those will continue? I keep pointing out that it only talks about the "Big Four" but says nothing about these (or the PBS national for that matter).

Thanks for any info!

 

[boy921]

I have been told alternatively by DISH supervisors that KTLA, etc. are subject to the cutoff and that they are not subject to the cutoff. Does anyone have any idea as to whether or not those will continue? I keep pointing out that it only talks about the "Big Four" but says nothing about these (or the PBS national for that matter).

Thanks for any info!

It sounds like the rumor mill is building at E*. The courts ruling is for: ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC. It does not include PBS, and the so called super stations. Their could be future changes resulting from the super stations getting classified as networks, but at present there is no order to shut them off. There is also a possibility that the super station like CW could let the contract lapse in the future so to prevent E* from providing.

Next word, I guess, is that all the satellite channels will get shut off.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Their could be future changes resulting from the super stations getting classified as networks, but at present there is no order to shut them off. There is also a possibility that the super station like CW could let the contract lapse in the future so to prevent E* from providing.

While agreeing with boy921 regarding that the only distant networks to be shut off will be ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC, there is no real way to shut-off superstations.

Unless a superstation aligns itself with a network which was a network as of 1995, the creation of a new network will not cause a loss of superstations.

Also, there is not a contract between the superstations and Dish Network, other than the one that allows Dish Network to service those stations as true "locals". For example, WWOR 9 in Seacaucus, New Jersey, is a local channel to the New York market (complete with a carriage agreement) and a superstation in the other 209 markets. There is no need for a contract to the 209 other markets as the license in the law allows for out-of-market retransmission without consent.

 

[TNGTony]

I have been told alternatively by DISH supervisors that KTLA, etc. are subject to the cutoff and that they are not subject to the cutoff. Does anyone have any idea as to whether or not those will continue? I keep pointing out that it only talks about the "Big Four" but says nothing about these (or the PBS national for that matter).

Thanks for any info!

Without any fear of being contradicted by anyone who has actually read the injunction I can say

Superstations KTLA, KWGN, KTLA, WSBK, WWOR are NOT affected by this court order

Distant stations with the CW Network from Miami and San Diego are NOT affecter by this court order

Network "feeds" from other broadcast stations available on Dish like PBS, Pa"i"), TBN, Daystar, Telemundo, Telefutura, Univision, Azteca America are NOT affected by this court order.

The ONLY channels affected by this court order are NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox channels that are NOT part of the local networks or "significantly viewed" (in the 6000 channel range).

The only dispute is whether CBS HD is affected or not. CBS HD is made available on Dish though a contract between the two companies. The dispute here is whether the contract explicitly uses the same statutory copyright license that Dish has been barred from using or not.

See ya
Tony

 

[ThomasRz]

Why do you think that SV stations are not affected? SV stations use the very same license as "DNS." In fact, SV are DNS (non-local). The only difference is their inclusion on the FCC SV list and the fact that SV does not count against the two of any network rule. Of course, only SV stations that are network stations (as defined in the law) are included in this discussion. Come December 1st all DNS (including SV) go away for E*.

Without any fear of being contradicted by anyone who has actually read the injunction I can say

The ONLY channels affected by this court order are NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox channels that are NOT part of the local networks or "significantly viewed" (in the 6000 channel range).

The only dispute is whether CBS HD is affected or not. CBS HD is made available on Dish though a contract between the two companies. The dispute here is whether the contract explicitly uses the same statutory copyright license that Dish has been barred from using or not.

See ya
Tony

 

[ThomasRz]

Digital Signals are the same except as indicated below. The key with CBS is that it has granted what is essentially a blanket waiver for certain areas that are served by a corporate O&O station. If the subscriber is also in B range of any non-corporate O&O station, a waiver from that station is also required. In other words, CBS cannot waive local affiliate rights for anybody but themselves. The 119 statutory license is still being used. Remember there are two parts to the puzzle: (1) clearance from copyright holders or use of the statutory license and
(2) permission of the signal owner (unless a statutory exception applies). The only practical way for CBS to deliver HD is via the statutory license. If they had attempted to negotiate ad hoc there would certainly be dead air from time to time (or substitute programming). I don't believe either is the case.

17 USC 119 (a)(4)(D)
Special rules for distant digital signals. The statutory license under paragraph (2) shall apply to secondary transmissions by a satellite carrier to a subscriber of primary digital transmissions of network stations if such secondary transmissions to such subscriber are permitted under section 339(a)(2)(D) of the Communications Act of 1934 [47 USC §339(a)(2)(D)], as in effect on the day after the date of the enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 [enacted Dec. 8, 2004], except that the reference to section 73.683(a) of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, referred to in section 339(a)(2)(D)(i)(I) [47 USC §339(a)(2)(D)(i)(I)] shall refer to such section as in effect on the date of the enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 [enacted Dec. 8, 2004].

 

[ThomasRz]

And the license does not have to be "explicitly" mentioned. If programming is being rebroadcast without a license from the copyright owner, there are only two possibilities: (1) CBS/E* are infringing the copyright or (2) are using the statutory license. In this case, where the statutory license is applicable, a court would necessarily find that it is being used and thus CBS is subject to all the restrictions thereof and more importantly, E* is enjoined from using the license - for traditional DNS, for SV and for CBS digital (erroneously called CBS HD) as of December 1st.

 

[digiblur]

No, that is not the case.

The analog distant networks were simple: qualify, and you get your choice of two distant networks. For DirecTV, the choice is made for you, as you can only get NY and LA distant analog networks. For Dish Network, you have (or should I say had)your choice of networks in four cities.

Distant digital networks were different: if your digital local channels are available, you must take them and not your distant digitals. If your market is unavailable in digital through satellite and you qualify, you cannot receive locals from an earlier time zone.

The digital rules for analog are different from digital. There are more differences, but I don't recall exactly what they are.

You did read the part where I said you can bet by right? I didn't say right now as in present today.

 

[Greg Bimson]

digiblur, why would you think the current ATSC (digital) rules for distants would change by the time the NTSC (analog) shut-off would occur? At present time, the law for distant digital local channels would sunset in December, 2009. The analog sunset would occur when the analog shut-off is complete, tentatively in February, 2009.

The rules won't change much, even if they are addressed in Congress. Because DirecTV was granting digital distants for CBS and FOX before the SHVERA was signed (and Dish Network only had CBS), and because those providers were only offering those networks with local-into-local, everyone that is able to sign up for local digital channels will lose their distant digital channels (unless those networks agree to postpone the termination of distant network, such as the HR20 MPEG4 HD receiver). Most people will not be able to receive distant digital stations. Heck, DirecTV will be serving over 65 percent of the nations households with digital locals by the end of this year. None of those people will qualify for digital distants, unless those networks agree to postpone the termination of the distant networks (which has happened even with the limited release of the HR20).

Why would anyone believe that specific section of the law would change? Even Dish Network, if the settlement to this suit was approved, would have lost the ability to offer the Mountain and Pacific time zones analog distant networks from the Eastern or Central Time Zone. The networks and their affiliates don't want people to see their first-run programming earlier than their local affiliate can provide it.

 

[ThomasRz]

Just to clarify - SV is an FCC term that may not always align with common sense. For example BOTH local and distant stations may be SV (i.e. be on the list). However in the context of the conversation here, SV does not include locals (as in LIL). Since locals in the law receive their statutory license from section 122, the termination of the 119 license will not impact LIL notwithstanding that some affiliates may be on the SV list.

 

[Chris Walker]

And the silence from E* continues... They had better be doing something behind the scenes that we don't know about yet.

 

[Juan]

And the silence from E* continues... They had better be doing something behind the scenes that we don't know about yet.

perhaps ( and only a guess) they are working on something dealing with the "IP" portion of their "VIP" receivers.. aka video over IP..

 

[minnow]

And the silence from E* continues... They had better be doing something behind the scenes that we don't know about yet.

A poster over at dbstalk reported that he had received a call from Dish informing him that his Distants were going to be terminated on 12/1. If what he said is true, that Dish is calling DNS subs., then I doubt Dish is doing anything behind the scenes to maintain DNS. It would seem to me that if they were doing something for current DNS subs. they would not be calling them to tell them their programming is being discontinued.

 

[gct]

The very well-practiced liars at E* will do their utmost to extract every dime from their subscribers in an effort to delay the inevitable stampede of intelligent subscribers from them to DIRECTV.

The GOOD News: DIRECTV has a future. A bright future, with two new satellites to provide HD bandwidth going up in 2007.

The grubs running E* have zero foresight. Just greed.

 

[Chris Walker]

The very well-practiced liars at E* will do their utmost to extract every dime from their subscribers in an effort to delay the inevitable stampede of intelligent subscribers from them to DIRECTV.

The GOOD News: DIRECTV has a future. A bright future, with two new satellites to provide HD bandwidth going up in 2007.

The grubs running E* have zero foresight. Just greed.

And this has what exactly to do with distant networks? Troll