AMC14 The Rescue mission: Lunar Burn may be a reality.

[vegassatellite]

This bird was intended to replace an aging bird. The aging bird is still up and operational at 61.5, albeit with 4 missing transponders. There is still 28 transponders on 61.5, that's enough for 196 national HD MPEG4 channels. Of course, several of those transponders will be spot, so the total sum of national channels will be lower. Worst case scenario is that some markets that were going to get their HD locals on 61.5 will have their locals on 129 instead after the launch of Ciel 2.

Some of you are acting like this is the death knell for Dish. It isn't, it's a cutback of 4 transponders. I would be more worried about an in-orbit anomaly on the bird at 129 before I would worry about the one at 61.5. Dish would be really in a bind if the Ciel 2 bird doesn't make it.

In conclusion, some of you who were planning on getting your spot HD locals from 61.5 will have to expect them from a Dish 1000 instead.

 

[mattopia]

Sirius works because the power is higher, the bandwidth less, they have frequency exclusivity and the receiver uses a semi omnidirectional antenna.

More accurately, it's a "patch" antenna, my guess with a 120-140 degree beamwidth.

The point is it's very different from DBS technology which relies on the "signal" always coming from a specific point in the sky. AMC-14 is only useful if it makes it to a geostationary orbit. A geosynchronous orbit is useless. There IS a huge difference.

Oh yeah. The more I read, the more I believe that AMC-14 is totally toast and they will de-orbit. Sorry folks.

I agree with this. It would cost SES a lot of time and money to get this satellite corrected. Obviously we all want to see this satellite put to use, but it's not going to be nearly as easy as a lot of people seem to think it will be.

The fate of AMC-14 rests with the insurer and SES -- with the insurer more than likely having a more significant say of the two. Not Echostar. Not Dish. Not Charlie.

Even in the slim chance Echostar gets use out of AMC-14, it will be under a heavily revised contract with whoever owns it at the time.

 

[mdwatt]

You can't be an engineer unless you went to engineering school...

Too many "engineers" that didn't go to engineering school.

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

 

[jacmyoung]

Doubt it!

Doubt about what?

That he did not get the VOOM bird cheap?

That he is not a gambler?

That if my scenario works (I know it is a long shot), he will not steal the bird for penny on the dollar and benefit?

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Doubt about what?

That he did not get the VOOM bird cheap?

That he is not a gambler?

That if my scenario works (I know it is a long shot), he will not steal the bird for penny on the dollar and benefit?

That charlie is going to benifit from this HUGE blow! And If he gets it cheap it better be 50% off, since thats how much fuel will be left by the time AMC is operational.

 

[jacmyoung]

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

I agree with you 100%, but do you realize that engineers are the most sought after talent today, and are one of the best paid, and it has been forcasted such trend will get only more intense in the future while many other traditional fields are drying up?

 

[jacmyoung]

That charlie is going to benifit from this HUGE blow!

We shall see and most likely you could be right but not because you have some foresight, rather it is your wish the bird burn in hell

 

[goldengoose]

Everyone seems to have forgotten (again), that this isn't Charlie's bird. E* was just leasing transponders. So, he's going to have no say on what happens to it.

If it does make to 61.5, then he'll have to worry about renegotiating the lease to match the expected new lifetime of the sat.

Not sure anyone here knows for sure what Charlie has in the contract. Smart folks would perhaps have negotiated contingency rates. Basically having a contract in place that would pay only for operational and fully functioning time. So if the SAT is cut short- he may pay less.

 

[Andrewwski]

I am absolutely floored at how people in denial can forget so much about the basic laws of physics.

I have seen more unscientific wishful thinking posted here than I could have imagined possible.

You're not the only one.

The center of any orbit around a single body must be around the center of mass of that body. It obviously gets more complicated if it is orbiting two or more bodies, but we are not talking about that here. What does that mean? It means that any orbit around the earth is above some diameter of the earth, not a latitude line. If a sat has a high point in orbit of 70 deg N latitude, it will pass through 70 deg S latitude as well. If it is in a geosynchronous orbit, the net effect will be that it oscillates in elevation in a period of 1 cycle/day. E4 works because the tilt of the orbit is small (.5 degree) which means it only moves up and down <1/2 degree as seen from earth. This is less than the aperature of the dish. If it was significantly more, we would need to have a motor on the dish changing elevation to track the satellite.

Sirius works because the power is higher, the bandwidth less, they have frequency exclusivity and the receiver uses a semi omnidirectional antenna.

Correct.

Oh yeah. The more I read, the more I believe that AMC-14 is totally toast and they will de-orbit. Sorry folks.

De-orbit soon or not, it's toast.

 

[jayn_j]

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

Sounds like a case of slide rule envy to me

 

[Hemi 6.1]

We shall see and most likely you could be right but not because you have some foresight, rather it is your wish the bird burn in hell

If AMC made it flawless to its location that would have been great! But it didn't ! So now I want it to burn in hell ,Because its only going to be another piece of E* space junk ,With half the life it should. Put it next to the 129.

 

[jacmyoung]

Not sure anyone here knows for sure what Charlie has in the contract. Smart folks would perhaps have negotiated contingency rates. Basically having a contract in place that would pay only for operational and fully functioning time. So if the SAT is cut short- he may pay less.

I don't think anyone can deny that at this point Charlie is totally clean on this deal, he does not have to pay a penny, the lease contract must have such condition in place, even a 3-year-old knows how to protect himself in such situation.

The question is if the bird can be rescued with a shortened life, will Charlie be willing to pay for it for cheap, like what he did to the VOOM bird, and will SES be willing to go through the trouble to rescue the bird and garage-sell it to Charlie.

It is of course a very big if because we have no idea how easy or difficult such rescue plan can be carried out, or even possible, we don't know the exact condition of the bird, it is all speculation at this time.

But it is certainly fun to speculate.

And if our great resident engineers and scientists are convinced that the bird is a toast, then so be it. One thing I knew this bird was never meant for national service, only for 61.5, so it really had little to do with what new national HD channels it might help to add, therefore its demise will also have little impact on the HD plan at least for this year.

 

[iwc5893]

I would be more worried about an in-orbit anomaly on the bird at 129 before I would worry about the one at 61.5. Dish would be really in a bind if the Ciel 2 bird doesn't make it.

In conclusion, some of you who were planning on getting your spot HD locals from 61.5 will have to expect them from a Dish 1000 instead.

Aren't they already having problems with the 129's orbit?

 

[Bulldog]

I don't think anyone can deny that at this point Charlie is totally clean on this deal, he does not have to pay a penny, the lease contract must have such condition in place, even a 3-year-old knows how to protect himself in such situation.

The question is if the bird can be rescued with a shortened life, will Charlie be willing to pay for it for cheap, like what he did to the VOOM bird, and will SES be willing to go through the trouble to rescue the bird and garage-sell it to Charlie.

It is of course a very big if because we have no idea how easy or difficult such rescue plan can be carried out, or even possible, we don't know the exact condition of the bird, it is all speculation at this time.

But it is certainly fun to speculate.

And if our great resident engineers and scientists are convinced that the bird is a toast, then so be it. One thing I knew this bird was never meant for national service, only for 61.5, so it really had little to do with what new national HD channels it might help to add, therefore its demise will also have little impact on the HD plan at least for this year.

I agree, at this point if they do get it to the proper location by using the on-hand fuel thus reducing its useful life, I feel that Charlie being a Poker player smells a good deal. Charlie is a survivor!

 

[goaliebob99]

I don't think anyone can deny that at this point Charlie is totally clean on this deal, he does not have to pay a penny, the lease contract must have such condition in place, even a 3-year-old knows how to protect himself in such situation.

The question is if the bird can be rescued with a shortened life, will Charlie be willing to pay for it for cheap, like what he did to the VOOM bird, and will SES be willing to go through the trouble to rescue the bird and garage-sell it to Charlie.

It is of course a very big if because we have no idea how easy or difficult such rescue plan can be carried out, or even possible, we don't know the exact condition of the bird, it is all speculation at this time.

But it is certainly fun to speculate.

And if our great resident engineers and scientists are convinced that the bird is a toast, then so be it. One thing I knew this bird was never meant for national service, only for 61.5, so it really had little to do with what new national HD channels it might help to add, therefore its demise will also have little impact on the HD plan at least for this year.

Exactly! if the bird is deemed to be garage selled to some one as long as it falls between 61.5-77 or 110-148 its still useful as the beams are steerable. I could see SES Americom getting the insurance money from it, Charlie makes a deal with the insurance to buy it or give some of the profits. The bird gets saved. That is under the assumption that the bird is not damaged.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Who Know's the lastest news? Is there any ?

 

[goaliebob99]

Nothing... That I know of.. From what im hearing echostar is just as in the dark about it as we are.

 

[schaffer970]

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

Those dang laws of physics unfortunately are pretty black and white.

Unfortunately there are bad engineers, but there are also incredibly good engineers. They are people just like everyone else. It's amazing that those "idiots" have managed to engineer a space program over the last 50 years which now lets you receive TV from space.

It's good to hear your not "stoopid" but maybe you shouldn't do any engineering either.

 

[jimboeau]

Who Know's the lastest news? Is there any ?

Why don't you just make it up

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Why don't you just make it up

OK!