Another mad scientist - 522 drive swapping

[phat_bastard]

... it appears that 5400RPM drives (with big caches ) are preferable to 7200RPM ones. I don't know why, but base this on the fact that the Maxtor QuickView is a 5400 unit.

Generally higher rpm disks are preferred for higher sustained transfer rates and lower seek time. In the case of a set-top-box, I'm sure the lower cost, heat dissipation, noise and higher MTBF of a 5400 rpm drive were factors. I'll have to look, but I'm pretty sure my unit has a 4R120L0 in it - that's Maxtor's general purpose DiamondMax line not their STB line (QuickView). Of course, mine is also a refurb that's had a drive replacement since I can clearly see the remnants of an old warranty sticker underneath the current one.

 

[Pepper]

Every unit I have seen so far has had the 4R120L0, some with the "QuickView" designation on the label and some without. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the two is whether or not they printed "QuickView" on the label. Maybe it's a level of testing and some get it and others don't but they are all 4R120L0?

Aside: These 4RxxxL0 are indeed quiet drives, I recently replaced the drives in my personal workstation with a couple of 4R080L0 and definitely notice the lack of noise.

The 522 does have a specific "approved" list of drives that the firmware looks for and I don't think any of them are of the 7200rpm big buffer variety. (A couple are SATA, I wonder how THAT is to be implemented?) I had a couple other Maxtor 120 drives, a 6Y120P0 and 4G120J6 I tried both of these and it of course choked with the hard drive error message.

Approved 522 drives: (this is from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dishmod)
Maxtor 4R120L0
Maxtor 4R160L0
ST3120025ACE
ST3160022ACE
SAMSUNG SV1203N
SAMSUNG SV1604E
ST3160023AS
Maxtor TBD model
Maxtor 7Y250M0

 

[GaryPen]

Are any of those models larger than 120?

 

[Smith P.]

Oops ! You can decyper them by one well known pattern - '120';
we see here also 160 GB and 250 GB disks.

 

[Smith P.]

<skip> (A couple are SATA, I wonder how THAT is to be implemented?) <skip>

Perhaps it will be new DP625 model with new motherboard ?

 

[GaryPen]

Oops ! You can decyper them by one well known pattern - '120';
we see here also 160 GB and 250 GB disks.

So, does the 522 format them to their full capacity? Or, does it format them as 120GB, regardless of their physical size? If it is the former, than they are not truly "compatible" in the full sense of the word. Yes, they will function. But, not in the manner they were designed.

 

[Smith P.]

There is whole Pepper thread about it ! Look at his posts.

 

[GaryPen]

What would that be in English?

 

[speed]

Hi gang: I'm hoping someone can help me. I've installed a 522 at a customers house and had to bring him out another one because when he went to watch what he taped as soon as he went to skip the commercials he lost audio. If he went back and left the commercials in he got his audio back. Also he told me that video blurred at times. I was told by a pro at one of Dish's training seminars that this problem had been rectified by a download. By the way these problems didn't come up at home w/1st receiver I brought back. I've talked to a lot of installers, does anyone have any ideas.

 

[tonyp56]

What would that be in English?

The 522 partitions the 160 HD into 3 partitions (sections) two of which are the same size as the 120GB HD, and one partition receives the additional 40GB. But the 522 still only shows 100 hours of recording time. So the partition that receives the additional space isn't for consumer recordings.

I would venture to guess that the only way that you can record more than 100 hours of programming is by using a some type of switch so that you can switch between your two drives, or three, four, etc... You could record 100 hours on one drive, then switch to another drive and record another 100 hours etc... I would think that the 522 is only going to allow 100 hours of recording, it is a software limitation not hardware. Dish is responsible for the software, and it would be illegal for anyone other than Dish to tamper with it or add features, so your stuck with 100 hours of recording time! Since the Mother Board sees the 160 GIG hd tells you that it isn't hardware, but it is the software that determines how much space (or time) is to be allocated for recording.

 

[GaryPen]

The only way to truly find out if the extra space in the third partition will be used, is to fill up the hddd with recordings. That extra 40GB may indeed be available for recordings, if it was included in the partition..

The 100 hour scale may be a limitation of the SW. However, that does not mean there is a 100 hour limit. Somebody fill up a damn 160GB drive already!

 

[Stargazer]

If I could hook up multiple hard drives to a DVR I wouldn't mind. If one was going to do that and wanted to have a cheap DVR then they might as well do it with a 522 bought off of ebay or a 501 which dont have a DVR fee if they only needed one tv output. I wonder if someone could modify the PIP on the 721 to output to a second television.

 

[phat_bastard]

The only way to truly find out if the extra space in the third partition will be used, is to fill up the hddd with recordings. That extra 40GB may indeed be available for recordings, if it was included in the partition..

The 100 hour scale may be a limitation of the SW. However, that does not mean there is a 100 hour limit. Somebody fill up a damn 160GB drive already!

I hate to reiterate this, but Pepper's findings were that the extra space is assigned to partition two. Nobody's really sure what gets gets stored on this partition, some theorize it's for VOD features that we don't yet have. The third partition is where all the recordings get stored, and it's getting re-created with the usual ~100 gigs. And any attempt to modify the partition table to move the extra space to the ES partition seems to result in the unit wiping the drive's partition table and re-creating it just like an empty / corrupted drive.

As for the recording capacity indicator, I would theorize that it's giving some measure of free space on the third partition, since it seems to increase slowly after deleting recordings. Whatever it is showing, I doubt there will be any way to change it that wouldn't involve messing with the firmware, and that would probably be frowned on by E*.

The only thing that might be possible is to attempt moving (think of it as 'archiving') recordings to the second partition and creating symlinks to them on the third partition. Unfortunately doing this would require knowledge of how the unit mounts the partitions off the root, and I'm not sure if there's any way to find this out. I've also found that the unit seems to audit the contents of the third partition at bootup, removing any files that don't match the dvr table of contents that is kept on the first partition. If it also 'audits' the second partition, this idea would be out as well.

 

[GaryPen]

I hate to reiterate this, but Pepper's findings were that the extra space is assigned to partition two. Nobody's really sure what gets gets stored on this partition, some theorize it's for VOD features that we don't yet have. The third partition is where all the recordings get stored, and it's getting re-created with the usual ~100 gigs. And any attempt to modify the partition table to move the extra space to the ES partition seems to result in the unit wiping the drive's partition table and re-creating it just like an empty / corrupted drive.

I see. Yes. I misread the original findings. That's too bad. I wonder why Dish doesn't wake up and smell the donuts like other DVR makers, and make it possible to expand hdd space? Eh. Just another checkmark in the negative column.

 

[HokieEngineer]

I see. Yes. I misread the original findings. That's too bad. I wonder why Dish doesn't wake up and smell the donuts like other DVR makers, and make it possible to expand hdd space? Eh. Just another checkmark in the negative column.

They did make a dvr that you could upgrade.. the 7100/7200!!! Amazing that the 522 acts kind of the same way a 7200 does when inserting a new drive. It initializes it and acts like is it the original drive. However the 7200 lets you record on the whole drive, not to mention a snazzy program called "dishrip"...

Any one try to fiddle with the partition settings with partition magic? decrease the non used partition and add the space to the dvr partition?

Worst case it seems like you can use 120gig drives and swap them in and out, just like vhs tapes

 

[Smith P.]

I think the time frame will closed soon for free swapping 522's disks , if Dish Software Dept managers really read our posts.

 

[GaryPen]

Yes. How dare the lowly customers increase storage capacity by themselves? They must be taught a lesson!

 

[Stargazer]

I thought they already had preventive measures for hard drive swapping in the 522's.

 

[Pepper]

The only preventative measures currently implemented are the tamper resistant sticky tape and the specific list of HD's that it will recognize.

There will probably be other measures added at some point.

 

[AZCoronaDog]

I've had a 510 for almost 2 yrs, and just got a 522. I've come close to filling the drive, but only because I was too lazy to clean it up. No offense intended, but I have to ask those of you that want bigger drives, how do you find time to catch up to 100 hrs of recordings? And if you just want to preserve them for posterity, wouldn't a DVDR be a better choice now that they are available < $200? (Virtually unlimited storage, portability, almost the same quality, etc.)

I'm a computer geek and a believer in open standards, so I totally understand the desire to be able to do your own upgrades. And having done my share of this kind of no instructions, trial and error reverse engineering, I applaud the time and effort that has been expended. But I wonder if it's really necessary, or more of an exercise just to rebel against the machine?

Just thought I'd stir it up a little!