Coax/AC question

[phlatwound]

I found a guy locally that has a couple of 1000' spools of RG-6 coax for sale. 1 is "standard" black, the other is direct burial orange....both are solid copper, both are the same price.

I am going to make a new underground run to my dish farm this fall, with multiple runs of coax, a ribbon cable or 2 and some 18 ga, wires, as well as a 110V circuit.

Will probably make the main run in 4" PVC (I will NOT run anything direct burial, too many rocks here).

Was wondering:

1.) Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using the direct burial cable?

2.) Is it alright to run my 110V (Probably 12 ga. romex w/ground) in the same conduit?

 

[Skyscanner]

Phlat,
The only advantage to direct burial is less expense, since no conduit is needed, and your ac can go into your same conduit as your coax with no issues.
ss

 

[phlatwound]

Phlat,
The only advantage to direct burial is less expense, since no conduit is needed, and your ac can go into your same conduit as your coax with no issues.
ss

Thanks Ss. I have never used the direct burial type, doesn't it have gel or something inside of it? I am assuming it uses the same connectors and strips the same as "standard"?

I also thought the direct burial might be more weather/sun resistant where it is above ground, but maybe not.

Glad to hear that I can run AC in the same run as my coax, wasn't sure if that would cause any RF interference or not, cool.

 

[brentb636]

A lot of the direct burial AC cable ( type UF for "underground feeder" ) is UV rated , and that might be where you get your association. Have to look on the outer cover, it will be printed there if it's rated for sunlight, etc.

 

[pedrogarcia]

True the coax should not be affected but personally I would run the 110v separately to avoid inductance on the ribbon cable and singles. I am not sure the codes allow coax and 110v but I found that two 2" schedule 40 plastic pipe was cheaper than 4" and easier to install. Don't forget to size up the romex if you have got a long distance to run.

 

[phlatwound]

A lot of the direct burial AC cable ( type UF for "underground feeder" ) is UV rated , and that might be where you get your association. Have to look on the outer cover, it will be printed there if it's rated for sunlight, etc.

Thanks, Brent, I will look for that when I check it out. I don't recall any of the pics I have seen here on the forum using the orange stuff, not sure if all the direct burial is orange, but if it was that great to use I'm sure someone around here would have been talking it up.

Unless somebody comes up with a real good reason to use it I will probably just go with the standard type.

 

[phlatwound]

True the coax should not be affected but personally I would run the 110v separately to avoid inductance on the ribbon cable and singles. I am not sure the codes allow coax and 110v but I found that two 2" schedule 40 plastic pipe was cheaper than 4" and easier to install. Don't forget to size up the romex if you have got a long distance to run.

Pedro, if required, how much separation (between AC line and coax runs) would be enough?

I agree that 2-2" is probably cheaper and easier, but it won't carry near as much as a 4'". That does make me think, I would probably be better off running multiple smaller conduits though, easier to distribute to different dishes, thanks for that idea.

For better or worse I am the code compliance official on our 100 acres in the boonies (sheriff, chief mechanic and dogcatcher also), so that is not huge consideration. I want to do what is right and will work, but no "revenooers" will be inspecting my project.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Direct Burial Coax has a sticky substance under the thickened PVC jacket which prevents moisture from wicking into the coax cable. Moisture damage might occur due to a nick or slice to the jacket or prolonged contact with water. Many SatelliteGuys have reported burying standard coax cables with out issue for years of service, but if I am going to all the effort of trenching and burial, I really don't want to deal with replacing a run in a few years!

Wouldn't worry about proximity of the 110VAC unless it is a code issue. It has been done for years out to the C-Band dishes with a convenient AC plug for those extended aiming parties at the dish. LOL!!! Since your options are open at this point, snake the AC on top of the coax cable, criss-crossing the AC and coax every few feet in the open trench. This will help eliminate interference issues.

If you are installing PVC pipe, I would also suggest placing a pull string for any future projects. (Maybe for that fiber optic LNB?)

 

[ACRadio]

My dishes are >225 ft on a hill behind the house. I ran a 10/2 AC line up the hill with the coax bundle to an outdoor outlet. I put it on it's own breaker in the breaker box so I could flip the breaker and turn it off when not in use.

 

[Skyscanner]

PedroGarcia,
True, AC can induce a voltage on another conductor. In my past life as a teleco I & R man, we used to test for inductance when teleco cables were on the same poles as AC, but you're talking about thousands of feet, or even miles of runs, and thousands of volts. I seriously doubt any noticable inductance on a home application such as FTA where it is limited to several hundred feet and relatively low [110] voltage. 60 HZ isn't RF, tho in some rare cases it might be possible to get a 60 HZ ripple or hum. If inductance due to say, condensation or water inside the conduit [make sure you don't have splices or cuts inside] was ever a problem, a grounding block and rod on at least 1 end of the RG6 shield [ought to do that anyway] would take care of any issues. Brian's idea of adding a pull strand is good because fish tapes don't work well in large diameter conduit.
ss

 

[Mr Tony]

My cables form the dish farm run right next to the A/C wiring for my central air unit...no issues here in 5 years or so

 

[Vorg]

The 60Hz from the ac can be a problem with OTA antennas when trying to get analog. But the big advantage of digital is resistance to RF interferance. It's big hangup with ATSC is it seems to have more problems with multi path. Not a problem with a hard line.

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

A lightening strike on the AC power could be induced into the sat cable and vice versa. I would keep them separated to minimize damage even though this is unlikely to happen.

 

[Skyscanner]

Well, a lightning strike that goes through the ac is pretty much going to overpower anything connected to, or close to it, including your surge arrestor, rx, TV, coax, and LNB anyway. Just because it's in a separate conduit in the same trench isn't going to mean a whole lot in terms of protection.
ss

 

[pedrogarcia]

Skyscanner> we will have to agree to disagree on this one,. telco cables etc are twisted pairs to resist induction,

Brian> Excellent point on the pull through and Phlat if you use it pull in another pull through with the new cable.
I can remember getting to large ducts only to find no pull through left and having to hire in the guy with the ferrett, harness, pilchard oil and fishing line.

 

[Tron]

My cables form the dish farm run right next to the A/C wiring for my central air unit...no issues here in 5 years or so

My cables come in next to a 220V window unit, and I've never had problems either. I occasionally worry about the proximity of the coax to 220V, but so far so good.

 

[phlatwound]

I got some more info on this coax I am considering buying.

The black jacketed coax has this printed on the covering:

"TFC-T10 FILE NO. E86650 CATV (UL) 6 SERIES 18AWG"

I did some Googling and am still not sure if this stuff would be suitable for FTA satellite purposes.

He said the orange-jacketed (direct burial) coax did not have anything printed on the outside jacket. He's got about 600' of the black and about 450' of the orange, wants $40 for the works, great deal if it will work for me.

Anybody have a clue what that stuff is?

 

[SatelliteAV]

Found this document that might have useful information.http://www.timesfiber.com/pdfs/Cable%20Specifications/semiflex-info.pdf

Good price that usually can only be found on rolls that fell of the tailgate of a cable contractors truck.

Beware.... While it probably will work, it appears to be swept only to 1GHz. I would put some connectors on the length before closing the trench and test to determine if the loss is acceptable.

 

[phlatwound]

It is an RG6 Uderground cable. Found this document that might have useful information.http://www.timesfiber.com/pdfs/Cable Specifications/semiflex-info.pdf

Good price that usually can only be found on rolls that fell of the tailgate of a cable contractors truck.

Beware.... While it probably will work, it appears to be swept only to 1GHz

Thanks Brian, that is one of the documents I found in my Google search, I'm just not smart enough to understand what it says.

I did notice the 1 GHz rating, and thought that might be an issue, I don't want to mess with it if it may not work.

Just for our education, could you please give me a short version of how sweep rating works and how it relates to satellite use?

And as far as it "falling off the back of a truck" you may be right, I haven't spoken to the guy that has it yet, just emails so far. If true that is an even better reason to not be interested in it.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Just for our education, could you please give me a short version of how sweep rating works and how it relates to satellite use?

You might notice decreased signal through attenuation or loss above 1GHz. Swept to 1GHz simply means that it has been certified or rated through a testing process to a maximum (x) amount of loss per (x) amount of distance to a maximum frequency of 1GHz. The cable may continue to perform well up through the typical highest frequency on a Standard type LNBF of 1450 MHz, but remember, often the satellite IF frequencies extend up to 2150MHz on Universal or Wideband type LNBFs. These higher IF frequencies could experience signal attenuation and losses in the cable runs between the dish and receiver.

And as far as it "falling off the back of a truck" you may be right, I haven't spoken to the guy that has it yet, just emails so far. If true that is an even better reason to not be interested in it.

Wouldn't be overly concerned about the history.... Cable may also be left over from a job, no longer accepted type for the installation contract or the contractor is no longer performing CATV installs.