Congress likely to pass HD distant locals today!

[Stargazer]

The cable companies in this DMA does have the other NBC station and the other DMA gets our networks on the cable system so why couldnt we get theirs?

Also would this allow those markets that are not being served yet to be able to get the neighboring DMA network stations? I think I even seen a Columbus station on the cable station lineup (which is 100+ miles away) either here and/or in a neighboring county that is in our DMA.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Also would this allow those markets that are not being served yet to be able to get the neighboring DMA network stations? I think I even seen a Columbus station on the cable station lineup (which is 100+ miles away) either here and/or in a neighboring county that is in our DMA.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you have to subscribe to your own locals before you can get any "significantly viewed" stations.

~Alan

 

[BFG]

I think the stations would just get added to your locals.

For instance, If you live in Fairfield, CT you would be able to get both NY and Hartford locals (like they way it's on cablevision)

 

[RBBrittain]

The cable companies in this DMA does have the other NBC station and the other DMA gets our networks on the cable system so why couldnt we get theirs?

Also would this allow those markets that are not being served yet to be able to get the neighboring DMA network stations? I think I even seen a Columbus station on the cable station lineup (which is 100+ miles away) either here and/or in a neighboring county that is in our DMA.

First, Alan is correct; you MUST have LIL in order to get "significantly viewed". However, the availability of "significantly viewed" will probably accelerate the launch of LIL in those markets; it should in Jonesboro. (It may even help Little Rock in the two-dish fix at E*; the fact that Jonesboro's PBS and religious stations are Little Rock satellites, plus the Little Rock PBS "statewide channel" feed and Little Rock & Memphis wings being in opposite directions, will probably force the Little Rock & Memphis wings to 110/119.)

From what you're telling me, NBC in the neighboring county probably will be available; WB probably will not, though they might qualify as a superstation. (I don't think WB is recognized as a network; any station offered across DMA lines that isn't a "network station" is a "superstation". Oddly enough, neither TBS nor WGN is legally a "superstation" anymore, though WGN, and until recently TBS, still use the term...)

 

[Alan Gordon]

First, Alan is correct; you MUST have LIL in order to get "significantly viewed".

I had asked that question before on DBSForums.com back when I didn't have access to a CBS, and was wondering if I could get access to WCTV (a "significantly viewed" CBS affiliate from the Tallahassee, FL market available on both Dish Network and DirecTV). Since then, I've gotten CBS E&W and CBS-HD E&W on (what I believe to have been) a technicality and stopped caring about the "significantly viewed" clause until I have access to locals. Of course, that was before Dan Collins stated on DBSForums.com that all waivers will be void on the day the bill is enacted. That upsets me knowing that I WILL NOT be able to get a waiver for CBS.

Edit: Speaking of Dan Collins, he posted an interesting qoute regarding WB! and UPN stations on DBSForums.com. Here is the link and the qoute.

Significantly viewed ONLY applies to network affiliates. Under the Federal regs, only ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC are commerical networks (PBS, the only non-commercial network, has different rules). So, UPN and WB affiliates would not qualify under this rule. However, since there are no local UPN or WB affiliates, DirecTV could deliver them in your market today. They would need the permission of the affiliates and the UPN and/or WB networks, but there is no legal obstacle.

~Alan

 

[dispatcher_21]

Dude, something about this still doesnt sound right. I dont see how the NAB on behalf of local broadcasters would ok E* and D* showing distant digitals as long as they subscribed to the analog LIL, not without a huge fight and throwing a tantrum. And what with E* saying it would take 3 years to get the distants going?? They should have plenty of bandwidth on the wings to start em up now for the diehards. Anyways, if it plays out like it reads and I can get the digitals just for having my analog LIL, Im looking forward to it and cant wait.

 

[BFG]

Yeah that sounds crazy to me as well, but if it's true it's fine for me

The 3 years is outrageous as well. In three years D* will most likely have most people's digital locals while E* will just be launcing distants?!?

 

[ComcastOgre]

So is anything about significantly viewed in this bill?

 

[rocatman]

Yeah that sounds crazy to me as well, but if it's true it's fine for me

The 3 years is outrageous as well. In three years D* will most likely have most people's digital locals while E* will just be launcing distants?!?

They way I see it, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of incentive for Dish or DirecTV for that matter to provide HD LIL right away except for the networks in HD in each time zone. As long as Dish offers analog LILs in a market, they can provide HD distant networks to folks in that market. So is there that much HD local content that folks really want or do they just want the network shows. The only exception maybe local sports carried via OTA instead of on a regional sports network. NFL games for Dish would still be a problem because of regional games but that is no different then it is currently. Maybe I am incorrectly interpreting what has been posted about the new legislation but if a satellite provider has HD offerings of the big four networks plus PBS, WB, and UPN in each time zone which is a total of 28 HD channels, I think they can satisfy most folks wanting HD locals.

 

[BFG]

Yeah, i ment to include that. You're right. How does this motivate D*/E* to provide locals in HD, doesn't make sense at all...

 

[rocatman]

I have a question about the single dish for locals provisions of the legislation. There had been significant discussion in posts when the House passed their version of the legislation on what Dish would have to do to comply. Some thought Dish would just move the wing locals to 105 when AMC-15 was operational. Customer would then have a choice if they wanted a Superdish installed. Others contended that if Dish moved wing locals to 105, the legislation would force customers in those markets to have a Superdish installed or they could no longer subscribe to to their locals. Is the legislation clear on this issue or will FCC interpretation be needed? My feeling was based on what Dish has done in the past, that the NAB backers in Congress would force Dish to make all locals on equal footing so that if you needed a Superdish to get some of your locals, you had to have a Superdish installed to get any of your locals. Obviously if this is the case, I can not believe that Dish would even consider moving many of the wing locals to a Superdish location unless they move the whole market.

 

[JoeSp]

OKAY!! So let's get this straight. If you already are paying for the LIL analog stations in your area you will qualify for the digital/HD distants untill E* is offering your LIL digital/HD stations then you have 60 days to switch. Also, if your local cable company carrys any out of area stations such as a sister station in a city close to you you will also be able to get that station added to your LIL analog stations.

Just a thought -- does this mean that now Cable has to allow access for INHD 1 & 2 to E* and D* for distribution?

Man, this is better than I could have ever hoped for from a Congress that usually screws up everything they try to do!!!

 

[FaxMan]

3 Years?

Besides the E* release mentioning 3 years, what else has been seen regarding this?

Does it mean that E* might take 3 years to do it, or that some how the NAB and or locals can somehow stall it?

It would seem to me that if the 'policy' that a distant HD feed would be allowed if a local had no digital feed it would be pretty simple to implement. The sat providers could negotiate time zone appropriate HD feeds with the networks or I presume even a local representing one of the networks who would like to have their viewership (ad revenues) increased.

I'm confused.

 

[RBBrittain]

My mistake!

When I posted my statements about digital distants in analog LIL markets, I challenged anyone to prove me wrong. As it turned out, I proved myself wrong while trying to retype the bill into HTML, and I apologize for my error.

These are the eligibility rules in both LIL and non-LIL markets:

• Anyone who is eligible for analog distant locals (i.e., "grade-B" or "analog white area") will be eligible for digital distants immediately.
• Anyone not in the "analog white area" will have to wait for the "digital white area" rulemaking, or for the launch of digital LIL in your area (both years away, especially with the delay options built into the rulemaking).

If you are eligible, these are the rules on getting digital distants:

• If you get digital distants already, you're grandfathered, and you are NOT required to get any form of LIL to keep them.
• If you are in a LIL market (and can get the LIL signal), you must subscribe to analog LIL to get digital distants, AND you must add digital LIL when it becomes available. (There is also a bandwidth requirement for digital distants offered in LIL markets, but that should be easy to meet.)
• If you are in a non-LIL market (or you can't get the LIL signal), you can get digital distants as long as you agree to add digital LIL when it becomes available. (I'm not sure if you will be required to add analog LIL when it becomes available in the market, assuming it arrives before digital LIL.)
• Once digital LIL is available in a market, non-grandfathered (SHVERA) customers must subscribe to digital LIL (if they can receive it) to keep digital distants; as mentioned before, grandfathered (pre-SHVERA) customers can keep it without adding digital LIL. Digital distants won't be offered to new customers once digital LIL is available.
• Except for grandfathered and Alaska/Hawaii customers, your digital distant's prime-time schedule must air simultaneously with, or after, your local station's schedule; this means Mountain customers must choose Mountain, Pacific or AK/HI, while Pacific customers can get only Pacific or AK/HI.

Before anyone flames me, please note that this is a very complex bill, and I'm just talking about the 107 pages devoted to SHVERA (out of an omnibus bill of over 3,000 pages, that already has one "gotcha" provision that would have allowed some congressional staffers access to tax returns without privacy protections). I kept double-checking and triple-checking it myself (and invited the rest of you to do so), because though I thought I was at least 95% right, I had enough doubts about what I read that I wanted to be 100% sure. That's why I re-read it at least twice, and wrote this post as soon as I found I was wrong. Please forgive me; I'm only human (as we all are).

BTW, it now appears we won't get a final version until at least Wednesday; finalizing the bill is tied up because the Senate won't release it until the House passes the side resolution on Wednesday to delete the tax-return provision from the bill. So keep plugging away at the "final draft" I posted; it's the best we're gonna get for a few days.

 

[RBBrittain]

Besides the E* release mentioning 3 years, what else has been seen regarding this?

Does it mean that E* might take 3 years to do it, or that some how the NAB and or locals can somehow stall it?

I haven't gotten thru the specifics yet (and one page is missing in that section from the present draft), but I think that is referring to (a) the time for the FCC to write a "digital white area" rule, plus (b) certain rights locals will have to delay the start of "digital white area" testing.

I think we can all agree, however, that the best solution for everyone (carriers and the NAB) is to bring up digital LIL ASAP. It may take awhile, but MPEG4 would help, among other things. It seems impossible, but then no one in 1999 would have predicted E* would have LIL in 151 markets by now, and that WITH the "must-carry" restrictions they didn't want. Compared to the predictions then, "two-dish" is just a minor bump in LIL's road to success.

 

[Alan Gordon]

[*]Anyone who is eligible for analog distant locals (i.e., "grade-B" or "analog white area") will be eligible for digital distants immediately.

Does that mean if you live outside a "Grade-B" signal, or if you're outside the "Grade-A" signal?!

[*]If you get digital distants already, you're grandfathered, and you are NOT required to get any form of LIL to keep them.

I get CBS-HD E&W now, if DirecTV had ABC-HD E&W, I'd have them too. Does that mean that once the waivers are resubmitted (after the bill is signed into law), that even if I lose CBS, I'd still have access to CBS-HD?!
Also, I live on the East Coast, will I still be able to receive both East & West, or just one?!

[*][*]If you are in a non-LIL market (or you can't get the LIL signal), you can get digital distants as long as you agree to add digital LIL when it becomes available. (I'm not sure if you will be required to add analog LIL when it becomes available in the market, assuming it arrives before digital LIL.)

No problem, I've been waiting years on them, I don't think I'd suddenly change my mind!

[*]Once digital LIL is available in a market, non-grandfathered (SHVERA) customers must subscribe to digital LIL (if they can receive it) to keep digital distants; as mentioned before, grandfathered (pre-SHVERA) customers can keep it without adding digital LIL. Digital distants won't be offered to new customers once digital LIL is available.

No problem with that whatsoever!!


~Alan

 

[herdfan]

Before anyone flames me, please note that this is a very complex bill,

It is definitely a complicated bill, so no flames from me. But here are a couple of questions I have.

1. In Section 103,4,A,I aa & bb) (Pages 12& 13) where it talks about Distant analog service, aa indicates that a subscriber has 60 days to elect to retain the distant network signal, but bb follows up with "only until such time as the sub elects to receive such local analog signal. Well, I have both. I probably shouldn't have the DNS, but back in 1994 they gave them to anyone who asked, so I have them. So my question is, since I have in essense elected receive my local analog networks, am I going to lose my DNS due to this election, or should I call D* and turn off my locals so that on the date of passage of this bill, I did not have them. Note this same language is also in Section 204 page 65.

2. But section 204 (D),(iii)(I-III)(Pges 71 & 72) seems to state that if you receive an out of market digital signal, you then must also sub to the analog LIL if available. But if I were to elect the LIL, then I would lose my ananlog distants. So it seems to me that they are saying that if you want the digital DNS, then you must sub to LIL, but if you want analog DNS, you can't have digital DNS. Does that seem correct?

3. What will be the status of FOX-HD or ABC-HD if they are not up on the passage date of this bill. Can't find anywhere it specifically mentions this.

Oh, first post. But some of you may recognize me from TivoCommunity, AVS or DBS.

 

[RBBrittain]

Does that mean if you live outside a "Grade-B" signal, or if you're outside the "Grade-A" signal?!

I'm almost sure it's outside the "grade B" signal, same as with new analog distants customers. However, you might want to re-read the language (I'm about to repost it in HTML) to verify if grandfathered distants customers inside "grade B" but outside "grade A" are eligible.

I get CBS-HD E&W now, if DirecTV had ABC-HD E&W, I'd have them too. Does that mean that once the waivers are resubmitted (after the bill is signed into law), that even if I lose CBS, I'd still have access to CBS-HD?!
Also, I live on the East Coast, will I still be able to receive both East & West, or just one?!

Assuming you are outside the "grade B" contour, you should be OK. I'm not sure whether grandfathered or waivered distants customers can get HD or not. (Of course, waivers are still possible for HD as well as SD.)

 

[Neutron]

This bill won't go into effect until President Bush signs it right? So we can't request these channels until he does right?

 

[RBBrittain]

I just finished transcribing the text to an HTML file, using the House-passed version as a beginning. Much smaller file (130K), much easier to read and search, and I also noted the three missing pages from the final draft (one of which is probably the same as the House version, so I left that in). I uploaded it to:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/rbbrittain/SHVERAFinalDraft.html
The handmarked files are now available at THOMAS (http://thomas.loc.gov) as well as the House Rules site, but we probably won't see an absolutely final version before Wednesday. Search for H.R. 4818 on THOMAS to find their copy, as well as the final copy when it's available.