Detroit Tigers 2008

[SabresRule]

Looking good so far for teh Tigers, up 6-1 against the W. Sox in the 6th, but you all know, the bullpen has yet to get involved.

Your criticism of Detroit's bullpen reminds me of an old saying about a bullpen 'putting out the fire.'

I guess it could be said that the Detroit bullpen doesn't put out the fire, but rather pours the gasoline on the fire.

 

[Jimbo]

Your criticism of Detroit's bullpen reminds me of an old saying about a bullpen 'putting out the fire.'

I guess it could be said that the Detroit bullpen doesn't put out the fire, but rather pours the gasoline on the fire.

I had to edit that post , it is 6-2 not 6-1.

Jimbo

 

[DetFan]

You spoke too soon, you forgot that piece of crap Robertson was in the game, and the piece of crap manager left him in for the 6th even though he barely got through the 5th.

Leyland is a huge problem for this team this year..I can count at least 10 wins he cost this team, by stupid managing..

 

[Jimbo]

You spoke too soon, you forgot that piece of crap Robertson was in the game, and the piece of crap manager left him in for the 6th even though he barely got through the 5th.

Leyland is a huge problem for this team this year..I can count at least 10 wins he cost this team, by stupid managing..

I disagree, Pitchers pitch, not the managers.
With the pitchers the Tigers have going daily, why would you want to take the starter out early, hell they had a 6-2 maybe 6-4 lead when Robertson came out, look what happens AFTER that, the great pitcher we got from the Yankees, Farnsworth came in and promptly gave up a game tying 2 run HR ....
Game never should have gotten to extra innings.

btw, Farnsworth has pitched 44 inning and given up 11 HR's, before he came to Detroit and he's given up at least 2 maybe 3 already in Detroit.
Did the Tigers not KNOW this ahead of time ?

Jimbo

 

[SabresRule]

The pitching mound has become a towering inferno with the gasoline-pouring bullpen of the Tigers.

 

[DetFan]

Pitchers pitch Managers leave them in to piss away games..It is his responsiblilty to see when its time to pull them out. Too many times this season he has left them in too long..

Ill be happy when the arrogant SOB is gone, and we get a real manager who does not cherry pick his teams.

They need to look at guys that managed under real managers like Mike Scioscia and Torre, look at what Maddon has done with that group of guys in Tampa..Hell even Wedge wedge would be a great manager on this team..

Leyland is overated.

 

[Jimbo]

Pitchers pitch Managers leave them in to piss away games..It is his responsiblilty to see when its time to pull them out. Too many times this season he has left them in too long..

Ill be happy when the arrogant SOB is gone, and we get a real manager who does not cherry pick his teams.

They need to look at guys that managed under real managers like Mike Scioscia and Torre, look at what Maddon has done with that group of guys in Tampa..Hell even Wedge wedge would be a great manager on this team..

Leyland is overated.

I bet you didn't feel this way when he got here, or in '06 when the Pitching was awesome and we went to the WS.

I'll take Leyland and a real bullpen anyday.

He can pull the starters out earlier, if you want, but do YOU have anyone that you want to come in to pitch that can do better than the Starter ? Not at this point , I bet.

Theres about 3 maybe four pitchers that are pitching well at the moment, thats it and 2 of them are STARTERS, Verlander and Galaraga (sp). Bobby Seay is pitching well and thats about it. Maybe Minor, but he's a starter again.

Jimbo

 

[DetFan]

Actually I did, I have never been a Leyland Fan..
06 was no different then this year, they just lost later..Do you recall last year and in 06 the second half collapse???


As I just said, I do not now nor have I ever Liked this guy, nor will I ever..Period.
Was I happy about the Wordl series appearance, sure I was, but remember these guys have not played good ball since the first half of that season..

Even that season when they kicked everyones asses in the first half, they still only got the wild card. To who? The Twins? Again? Yep.

 

[HD MM]

Pitchers pitch Managers leave them in to piss away games..It is his responsiblilty to see when its time to pull them out. Too many times this season he has left them in too long..

Ill be happy when the arrogant SOB is gone, and we get a real manager who does not cherry pick his teams.

They need to look at guys that managed under real managers like Mike Scioscia and Torre, look at what Maddon has done with that group of guys in Tampa..Hell even Wedge wedge would be a great manager on this team..

Leyland is overated.

I wouldn't covet Wedge as a manager. Take it from a Cleveland fan, he's by far the ideal manager, especially on team full of veterans such as yours.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

The bullpen, Renteria, Robertson - I don't know where to start about last nights debacle, so I won't.
La, la,la,la,la,la,laaaaaa. The "fat lady" is warming up.

 

[DetFan]

The bullpen, Renteria, Robertson - I don't know where to start about last nights debacle, so I won't.
La, la,la,la,la,la,laaaaaa. The "fat lady" is warming up.

The fat lady started singing a month ago. Where have you been?
Leyland lets verlander throw 130 pitches last night in a game where he had no business doing so.

 

[satjay]

I gave up a week ago. I am in NFL mode now, this season was one of the most frustrating at least during their span of 90-100 loss season you knew things were bad. Wonder what the re-tooling will be next year. I dont think you will see the 3 million fan mark next year, may drop a bit

 

[Paul Wozniak]

The fat lady started singing a month ago. Where have you been?
Leyland lets verlander throw 130 pitches last night in a game where he had no business doing so.

He had to. I told my wife the same thing last night. I told her the game was still in reach as long as they could keep the pen out of the game. Well they didn't, and the pen gave up a couple of more runs, (not that it really mattered). 20 of the next 25 are at home real soon. If they can keep the bullpen out of the game, who knows? I'm grasping at straws, but I need some reason to keep watching.

 

[DetFan]

He had to. I told my wife the same thing last night. I told her the game was still in reach as long as they could keep the pen out of the game. Well they didn't, and the pen gave up a couple of more runs, (not that it really mattered). 20 of the next 25 are at home real soon. If they can keep the bullpen out of the game, who knows? I'm grasping at straws, but I need some reason to keep watching.

Hahah, you certainly are grasping and I stayed up and watched that disaster extra innings game on Tuesday night, and I gotta tell you, that was it for me.

I just cannot take it anymore, Like you I kept holding out hope they would wake up and prosper some, that game right there did it to me.

130 pitches for Verlander is way too many..Thats just ridiculous..
Dombrowski had better get some pitching in here next year, period. Too many games have been given away.

Yes the bats killed us to start the season, but to me some of these heartbreakers have taken the life out of the offense..
When I think of Jurrgens(sp?) being in Atlanta kicking ass, I think about what we got for him..UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Hahah, you certainly are grasping and I stayed up and watched that disaster extra innings game on Tuesday night, and I gotta tell you, that was it for me.

I just cannot take it anymore, Like you I kept holding out hope they would wake up and prosper some, that game right there did it to me.

130 pitches for Verlander is way too many..Thats just ridiculous..
Dombrowski had better get some pitching in here next year, period. Too many games have been given away.

Yes the bats killed us to start the season, but to me some of these heartbreakers have taken the life out of the offense..
When I think of Jurrgens(sp?) being in Atlanta kicking ass, I think about what we got for him..UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to talk about that... When did this silly pitch count crap start, anyhow? And why is that too many? When we were kids, (Ok, when I was a kid), teams had a 4 man rotation, and it wasn't unusual for for pitchers to have 20+ complete games a season, throw in excess of 300 innings, etc... McClain and Lolich did it for years, as well as most of the Major League pitchers of that era. Now we got 5 man rotations, pitch counts, set up men, closers... Why can't these kids throw more? They're bigger, and stronger then the guys from 30 years ago. Better training, diets. They have more science available to them, yet everybody is afraid their arms are going to fall off. Guys and gals, please explain this to me.

 

[DetFan]

It is all about the the time we are in now. It is the way they are brought up through high school, College, Minors leagues. It is not their fault, it is just what they do now to young kids, and it has spilled over to the major league level.

 

[Jimbo]

I'd like to talk about that... When did this silly pitch count crap start, anyhow? And why is that too many? When we were kids, (Ok, when I was a kid), teams had a 4 man rotation, and it wasn't unusual for for pitchers to have 20+ complete games a season, throw in excess of 300 innings, etc... McClain and Lolich did it for years, as well as most of the Major League pitchers of that era. Now we got 5 man rotations, pitch counts, set up men, closers... Why can't these kids throw more? They're bigger, and stronger then the guys from 30 years ago. Better training, diets. They have more science available to them, yet everybody is afraid their arms are going to fall off. Guys and gals, please explain this to me.

I can't explain it, I agree with you 100 % ...
Why can't a team go back to a 4 man rotation ?

Jimbo

 

[HD MM]

I can't explain it, I agree with you 100 % ...
Why can't a team go back to a 4 man rotation ?

Jimbo

Because science, research and medicine have advanced to the point that doctors can calculate a safe workload for pitchers and help decrease the stress on their arms by limiting players to a certain pitch count.

The owners then take this research and use it wisely as teams have tons of money invested in these players.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

]Because science, research and medicine have advanced to the point that doctors can calculate a safe workload for pitchers and help decrease the stress on their arms by limiting players to a certain pitch count.
[/B]
The owners then take this research and use it wisely as teams have tons of money invested in these players.

OK, so explain the pitchers from earlier eras. (Forget about Nolan Ryan, he was a freak of nature). How was Cy Young able to pitch so much? Science changes everyday, along with their theories, and methodologies. You would think that these kids would at least be able to equal those that preceded them, with the added mph. To me this just seems like they're more interested in protecting those million dollar investments, but that hasn't worked any better now, has it. So I say the science is bunk. Less innings and it seems like these kids get hurt more now then before. Like I said, in the sixties, there sure were a lot of 300 inning pitchers, with long careers. How many pitchers, currently in MLB, do you figure for 300 wins in their careers? Not many. Less stress on their arms? But not many with long enough careers to reach the Hall of Fame 300 wins. Next explanation please.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

It is all about the the time we are in now. It is the way they are brought up through high school, College, Minors leagues. It is not their fault, it is just what they do now to young kids, and it has spilled over to the major league level.

I agree, but this feels like only half the story.