Dish 411's Now Available

[mleland]

Hey Scott,
I work for a RSP and wonder why Dish doesn't include at least 1 kind of HD tv cable in the box. Nearly 100% of my HD installs over the last 2 years I had to use the cable in boeither component or dvi/hdmi). This is going to create a mess with the RSPs because I bet dish will not pay for the cables that are now missing.

 

[goaliebob99]

im not jumping on this one like how I did with the 942... Im waiting for the MPG4 dvr or the 942+.... as I will be in one of the first markets to get mpg4 locals... im going to wait and see if theres any traid in offers or swapouts..

 

[SimpleSimon]

I suspect there's a valid business reason for throwing that ridiculous retail price.

It has to do with how Chasrlie cooks his books.

He'll make paper money on the leases, he'll make REAL money on retailer chargebacks, and meanwhile, some people will actually buy them at that price, also making him real money.

 

[vinnyv07]

I guess at first you will see a ridiculous price...like the prices that have been mentioned. But if prices don't come down...I'll ride out my 811 that I own and then cancel my sub if I have to. There is no way....I would pay this much for an upgrade when Direct is offering the same technology at next to nothing cost. Does Dish know that they are competing with a rival sat service? Right now they have the edge in HD programming....why don't they lower the boom and give their subs and new subs a deal they could sink their teeth into. I think everyone expects to have some out of pocket cost....but there is a line that should be drawn.

 

[Lucky]

Vinny, I agree completely. I currently lease two 811's and my one year commitment ends in April. If Charlie does not either put the new channels on in MPEG2 or come up with some sort of upgrade program I will cancel Dish at the end of my commitment, and sign up for DirecTV. The equipment from DirecTV is almost free, and I am sure they will catch up with the programming in about a year.

Also, one big difference between DirecTV and Dish. DirecTV has only put on the locals in MPEG4 so only those in selected areas that want them need to upgrade. Dish is going to put on nationals in MPEG4 forcing their whole customer base to upgrade if they want the new programming. They need to keep the nationals in MPEG2 during a transition phase.

 

[riffjim4069]

I'm in no hurry to upgrade to a 411/211...

I just replaced a leased 811 with a purchased 942, but I plan to hold onto our other leased 811. I cannot see E* rolling out new national HD channels in MPEG-4 (that would be insane)...only rolling out MPEG-4 HD LIL in the top markets. Odds are pretty good they will follow D*'s business model for rolling out MPEG-4 HD LIL, but they will try to do it more efficiently:

1. All new customers (at least those in the top 30 or so DMAs) will receive MPEG-4 receivers with programming commitment.

2. Existing customers will be offered upgraded receivers at a discounted price with a programming commitment. Just how much the upgrade will cost depends on your receive model, the churn rate, and how much customers are willing to pay before screaming foul.

3. Those customers whose purchased HD receivers are still under warranty (811, 942) should be upgraded free of charge when HD LIL is rolled-out to their DMA.

4. Unless you are willing to pay something for your HD LIL upgrade (gotta have HD LIL), you can pretty much wait another 12-24 months and continue to use your existing service "as advertised" until E* replaces replaces all leased receivers and offers further discounted receivers as they migrate to MPEG-4 on their SD channels. At this time, the HD/MPEG-4 receivers will be much cheaper to acquire and older receivers will start falling by the way side.

5. If you don't need HD LIL (I certainly don't) then what's the rush to spend $$$ upgrading your receivers?

Anyway, unless you just gotta have a 411 or 211 (which I can't see since there is currently nothing to watch) then I would just kick-back and wait to see what Charlie had to say on the Big HD Chat (Jan 9th). Again, there is no reason (for me) to upgrade anytime soon. Also, as Simon pointed out, make sure you don't screw over your retailer. I contacted my retailer and had him verify that he wouldn't receive a chargeback when I returned a leased 811 and purchased a 942 through him.

 

[Lucky]

riffjim, I am not sure a lot of what you say is entirely true. Some of the uplink threads seem to be saying that the new VOOM channels and ESPN2HD may be in MPEG4. I have no problem if they leave the nationals in MPEG2, and make the locals MPEG4, but to make the nationals MPEG4 during a transition period is not fair. It then would force everyone to upgrade to get the new channels.

 

[JohnC]

Also, one big difference between DirecTV and Dish. DirecTV has only put on the locals in MPEG4 so only those in selected areas that want them need to upgrade. Dish is going to put on nationals in MPEG4 forcing their whole customer base to upgrade if they want the new programming. They need to keep the nationals in MPEG2 during a transition phase.

There is considerable confusion in what E* is going to do with HD. It definitely appears that Atlanta, Boston, and Chicago HD locals will be MPEG-4. But from the posts on the various forums, it is not clear whether the NY and LA HD locals and corresponding distant HD Nets will be in MPEG-4 or MPEG-2 and whether ESPN2 HD, the new VOOM 5 and other new HD content will be in MPEG-4 or MPEG-2. Scott made a post yesterday morning that indicated these will be MPEG-2.

As it is, I am frozen in upgrading my equipment. After the November tech chat that said E* was not able to efficiently encode in MPEG-4 and the MPEG-4 changeover was well out into the future, I decided to attempt the $249 lease deal for a 942, but held off until after last Monday's Charlie Chat. Now I am completely confused and guess I will wait until something actually happens. Even if it is said clearly on a Chat, it does not really mean anything. Remember NBR recording for the 510.

If all new HD channels are in MPEG-4, getting a new 411/211 to replace my 6000 seems the best path and then upgrade my 211 and 510 to a 622 when they become available and stable, which will probably be at least a year away. If only the Atlanta, Boston, and Chicago HD locals are MPEG-4, then the best path is to replace my 6000 and 510 with a 942. As Scott said in one of his posts, E* has confused a lot of us and we are going to not do anything, except maybe switch to D* or Comcast until the E* HD path is clear.

 

[JH1949]

E* has confused a lot of us and we are going to not do anything, except maybe switch to D* or Comcast until the E* HD path is clear.

Or get an HD OTA tuner and watch full HD on it until the dust settles.

I could only get 1 HD OTA on my leased 811, but can now get 5 on the not-E* tuner. The PBS HD channel can tide me over until Rave and Equator get back to full HD.

 

[riffjim4069]

riffjim, I am not sure a lot of what you say is entirely true. Some of the uplink threads seem to be saying that the new VOOM channels and ESPN2HD may be in MPEG4. I have no problem if they leave the nationals in MPEG2, and make the locals MPEG4, but to make the nationals MPEG4 during a transition period is not fair. It then would force everyone to upgrade to get the new channels.

...let me qualify that by saying it is just my opinion. I have no idea what's going to happen, I'm just looking at it from my point of view. I'm aware of the conflicting information regarding the new HD channels, but if anyone is keeping score is seem like it's 80% MPEG-2 and only 20% MPEG-4. I just can't see Charlie wanting to create chaos by introducing new HD national channels in MPEG-4; it would defy logic and good business sense (and he is certainly a good businessman). Unless he has a half-billion dollars worth of new MPEG-4 receivers sitting in a warehouse and is ready to offer free upgrades customers receivers en masse, then IMO it is highly unlikely the new channels will be in MPEG-4.

It should be a very interesting HD Chat, but I'm sure Scott and crew are busily digging for details...

 

[G_Sup]

No componet output?

According to the .PDF file it does have Component outs .

 

[Purogamer]

It's expensive because it's not geared for John Q. Satellite Customer, it'd designed for new customers and the very "I need it NOW" current customer who will usually pay anything to have the newest thing out regardless if there's actually content for it or not. This is also why it doesn't come with cables because there is an exceedingly high chance that the customers getting them already have their cable of choice and will just use it on the new box. New customers will get a cheapo cable and be charged for it. It's not really some scam or a trick, it's a box that will have a short shelf life and be for specific people. They're marketing it exactly how they should to make money off of such a product.

BTW, If you were a dish tech guy wouldn't you be really pissed to have to be messing with ever-changing MPEG-4 testing the week before christmas? Maybe that's why none of it makes sense, they're really mailing it in because they're not into it. They could put up the new channels now and make everyone happy but they won't until after the new year. They're making it LOOK like they're busy when they really aren't...What logical reason would there be to upload something like OLN if not to make it available? Easy, to get us talking...

It's no secret that there will be plenty of people here on christmas day making posts about MPEG-4 and Voom and whatnot. Dish has us wrapped around their finger and they know it...

 

[vinnyv07]

I just replaced a leased 811 with a purchased 942, but I plan to hold onto our other leased 811. I cannot see E* rolling out new national HD channels in MPEG-4 (that would be insane)...only rolling out MPEG-4 HD LIL in the top markets. .

I believe this statement ....I too feel that if E rolls out national HD in Mpeg 4 they would effectively implode. Really ...think about how many subs you would take out of the market. The only logical thing to do is to slowly put local HD ch's on MPEG 4 and keep the nationals on Mpeg 2 ....for now. If they try anything else....they deserve what's coming to them.

 

[riffjim4069]

I believe this statement ....I too feel that if E rolls out national HD in Mpeg 4 they would effectively implode. Really ...think about how many subs you would take out of the market. The only logical thing to do is to slowly put local HD ch's on MPEG 4 and keep the nationals on Mpeg 2 ....for now. If they try anything else....they deserve what's coming to them.

Not to start a flaming war, but E* always had the option to save bandwidth by implementing their new and improved 8PSK Turbo code on existing MPEG-2 HD channels.

 

[Lucky]

I believe this statement ....I too feel that if E rolls out national HD in Mpeg 4 they would effectively implode. Really ...think about how many subs you would take out of the market. The only logical thing to do is to slowly put local HD ch's on MPEG 4 and keep the nationals on Mpeg 2 ....for now. If they try anything else....they deserve what's coming to them.

This has always been my theory. DirecTV is currently rolling out MPEG4, but only for locals, and in select markets. If Dish puts nationals in MPEG4 during the tranistion stage that is all new territory. Then they would be forcing their entire customer base to either upgrade to MPEG4 receivers or not be able to get the new channels. If they put the locals in MPEG4 I would not have a problem with that. Then everyone could make a decision as their market is added. If they put the nationals in MPEG4 than that would be a disgrace. That would be a ploy to try and get everyone to go and buy new receivers, and that would anger me.

 

[SRW1000]

In the Quick Facts PDF is alludes to programing charges to recieve OTA...what is that about?

I noticed the same thing. This footnote from the quickfacts guide sounds rather dubious:

1Additional authorization may be
required before high definition
programming and/or off-air
digital broadcasts can be
viewed; additional fees may
apply.

Could they seriously be thinking of charging a monthly fee to use the 411's OTA tuner? Bad idea, really bad idea.

Also, why only have a two-day guide? With the almost-monthly drops in flash RAM prices, why not allow for additional storage? Heck, a USB port could be used to allow owners to add their own USB flash drives for extra data. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard.
Scott

 

[n0qcu]

Also, why only have a two-day guide? Scott

It's not a DVR, do you really need to find something to watch live more than two days into the future. If I am looking to watch something live I only need to know what is on NOW not later.

 

[BrettTRay]

I agree I would like to see at least a 72hr guide. Even though its not a DVR it comes in real handy for setting timers if you have a DVD recorder and just to see what is coming on in a few days.

 

[SRW1000]

I agree I would like to see at least a 72hr guide. Even though its not a DVR it comes in real handy for setting timers if you have a DVD recorder and just to see what is coming on in a few days.

That's one of the things that I'd want to use it for. I'd also like to have the auto-tune function so I don't forget to watch something. I'd also like the option of seeing what's going to be on next weekend, check for new episodes, etc.

The value of a seven-day guide is huge to someone who's used to having it. Two days just isn't enough.

Scott

 

[BrettTRay]

Seven Day would be great