riffjim4069 said:
Again slow down. First we don't know for sure a settlement is certain, but even if true, you can't say his "paying as little as possible" has backfired on him, when you have no idea what that "little" is.
DISH -VS- VOOM - A Settlement has been reached!
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Again slow down. First we don't know for sure a settlement is certain, but even if true, you can't say his "paying as little as possible" has backfired on him, when you have no idea what that "little" is.
That's true. But I think both parties have played their hands and reasonable parties (mediation?) will be brought in to help settle the dollars and cents of this matter. We shall see. CV/AMC won't get 3.5B and the won't get 2.4B, but they will get in the neighborhood of 1.5B-1.7B, a long-term (5-years) AMC carriage agreement, legal fees reimbursed and, if they're were smart, an agreement to optionally provide Dish with one (1) HD channel free-of-charge for the next 5-years in exchange for free uplink/distribution of this channel. They have a acquired a ton of Monsters, Kungfu, foreign films and other content. Or course, the last item is my wishful thinking.
These things can never be known for sure but, based on how this trial has progressed, I feel it is reasonable to conclude the settlement is going to cost Dish/SATS much more than Ergen had hoped for. So yes, I can, and do, say paying as little as possible has backfired on him. You have my permission, both expressed and implied, to quote me on that.
There is no reason to doubt Dish I see, and if they really were popular, why would Dish want rid of them? Those 2 parts of your argument do not mesh. Either they were successful and Dish would be happy to have them, or they sucked ratings-wise and Dish wanted to get rid of them. Well, we all know Dish wanted rid of them, so there is only one logical concusion.
I haven't read it in a long time, but I recall the arguments dish made in response to the complaint made a lot of sense, too. And Voom's claim that Dish forced repeats and what not is just ridiculous. The logic takes us in one direction: Dish signs agreement > Voom tries to sell Voom to DirecTV, et. al. and relizes any deal that doesn't have all 15 networks kills the Dish deal, so they give up and decide to start collecting money from Dish and spending that $100M to make their own lives easier (i.e. inflate the overhead) > Charlie realizes the content is not attracting customers, no one is watching most channels, and tries to renegotiate > Voom declines > Charlie reasons there is no way they can be spending $100M on the crap being delivered and orders an audit > Audit says they are spending $100M, but with a ton of overhead beyond what had been done in previous years > Furious, and realizing the Dolans are screwing him, Charlie declares the contract breached and retiers Voom to try to spur further renegotiation > Voom refuses > Charlie orders the 10 lowest rated Voom off to try to get Voom to the negotiating table > Voom refuses and issues an ultimatum - 15 or bust, Charlie chooses bust > Lawsuit.
You used that word customary again. Like I said, I don't think Voom's expenses were customary compared to what they were in 2005 and 2006.
You want me to say Dish lied? Fine, Dish lied. I also have no doubt Voom execs lied to Charlie when they promised to reinvest in Voom programming and try to sell it to others. Why else would Charlie buy a 20% stake.
If I had a nickle for every lie from DirecTV, Time Warner, Cablevision, not to mention every other corporation out there, I'd be able to pay the Dish judgement myself. Charlie jut went with the legal strategy his lawyers thought would work best. Seems they were wrong. I was just pointing out another, if harder to prove defense that is certainly closer to the truth.
And, yes, Charlie failed. Seems to me like he let Voom's lawyers write annex A and his own people didn't catch that they filled it so much with loopholes, Voom could practically stop investing in quality programming. But I will always blame Voom for that dick move.
It is a big deal...it shows that Dish was aware of the terms and conditions and, made a choice, to purposefully delete (not merely accidentally nor through email policy) evidence that was supposed to have been legally retained. I may be wrong, but I believe these 2005 and 2007 emails were deleted in 2008 after the legal hold was in place. I will assume they attempted wipe/overwrite the file using a 3rd party tool, but I have no information on how it was deleted nor how this information was recovered.
It goes a long way toward proving damages and penalties. For example, if somebody were to be kissing Charlie's boots while he was standing in the street and I accidentally struck the man and killed him which driving...well, I could potentially be going to jail for manslaughter. However, if I were to later make utterances that I aimed my vehicle at one of Charlie's boot lickers, well...I could be going to prison for murder (that or fined for littering
Seems that is a lot of speculation. Fact is, we don't know when the emails were deleted, rather or not it was purposeful, or how they were deleted. If they used a 3rd party deletion service, I doubt it would have been recoverable.
The damages should be based on the money that Voom lost. The Dish intent is immaterial to that. Sure, there may be punitive damages. But those pale in comparison to the actual damages, and Dish will appeal punitive damages for years, especially if they are extreme.
Let's see this proof before we declare Dish guilty. And even then, Voom can call the auditor to the stand and ask what is missing.
I notice you like to say that they claim to have evidence. I will wait to see it until I declare it evidence.
Even then, Dish is probably on the losing side, and is wrong when it comes to the letter of the contract. But that will never change my opinion that Voom is 90% responsible for it's own demise, and were the ones that chose to do business dishonorably by raking Dish over the coals to get more money rather than trying to work together to make the service better.
AMC would never accept an agreement without those channels being included in their basic package (whatever that was).
riffjim4069 said:That's true. But I think both parties have played their hands and reasonable parties (mediation?) will be brought in to help settle the dollars and cents of this matter. We shall see. CV/AMC won't get 3.5B and the won't get 2.4B, but they will get in the neighborhood of 1.5B-1.7B, a long-term (5-years) AMC carriage agreement, legal fees reimbursed and, if they're were smart, an agreement to optionally provide Dish with one (1) HD channel free-of-charge for the next 5-years in exchange for free uplink/distribution of this channel. They have a acquired a ton of Monsters, Kungfu, foreign films and other content. Or course, the last item is my wishful thinking.
Who knows, maybe for once your wishful thinking will turn out to be the only prediction that comes true
riffjim4069 said:These things can never be known for sure but, based on how this trial has progressed, I feel it is reasonable to conclude the settlement is going to cost Dish/SATS much more than Ergen had hoped for. So yes, I can, and do, say paying as little as possible has backfired on him. You have my permission, both expressed and implied, to quote me on that.
I am just so glad I don't have a habit of quoting you, had I done so, I would have long lost my shirt while still believing I had won.
Based on possible settlement discussions, I am going to limit my comments on this particular aspect of the trial. If settlement discussions do break down then I will certainly address your questions/comments because, to be honest, they are waste of our time and breath if both parties settle.
Let me just conclude by saying you do indeeed have habits. Some of them may be treatable. I'm just kidding!!!
Wouldn't it be funny if some court clerk changes the calender on Monday to say "pos. settlement" just to watch everyone go nuts?!
Don't blame you. Hadn't read down far enough when I wrote to see there was a possible settlement in the works.
It was 12 people at a time, not just 12 different people. Heck, if the 12 people watched the 6 different loops, there could have been 72.
Heck, I even watched it on occasion. But I gave up on it when I remember coming home and seeing essentially the same 10 minute loop hours after I watched it in the morning.
News of a possible settlement and now I'm gonna be glued to the boards here waiting for this to be over.
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Why were they prevented from licensing it? I figured there was just no takers.
Who knows, maybe for once your wishful thinking will turn out to be the only prediction that comes true
Thanks, hearing those words mean so much to me.
Damages. It's not easy convinving a jury that Dish's actions killed Voom when Voom is still operating. Since they were only serving Cablevision customers, the service was shuttled, employees terminated, HD production studio assets liquidated, and their film library stuck in a vault. I suppose it's possible that some of this material has seen the light of day in the past two years, but I don't recall seeing any of it since Voom went Boom.
Wouldn't it be funny if some court clerk changes the calender on Monday to say "pos. settlement" just to watch everyone go nuts?!
I man named Jerry Callo, or was it Gambini?, told me that Judge Malloy is a real prankster.
