DTV into a Sat Receiver.

[Houston]

I’m almost afraid to ask this question, but:

I have Digital Warner Cable. I have to use “their” box, to access channels over Channel 125. Warner charges an additional monthly fee, to use their box. This being because the existing standard TV and VCR/DVR receivers, won’t go over Ch 125, and they’re not Digital receivers anyway.

However, a Satellite Receiver will, and it has a “F” connector, to receive signals from a source other than the Dish, (“Ant” IN, F-Connector).

Could I input the Warner Digital signal into the “Ant” input on my Sat Receiver, access the “upper” channels, and do away with the monthly fee, that Warner charges me to use their box? Would try this myself, but don’t have the Sat system up and running at this time.

Anyone tried this?

PS: Just to make SURE it’s clear about this, I AM paying for the Cable Service, and legitimately (In my opinion) attempting to reduce the cost of the Service, by using my Receiver, instead of Warner’s. Warner may not like this idea, but, I DON’T think this would be considered theft or an illegal act.

 

[terryfoster]

To access digital cable channels you are required to either use the providers equipment or a cable card compatible device (many HDTVs,Series 3 TiVo, etc) and then rent the cable card(s).

While your satellite receiver has a f-connector it doesn't have the appropriate demodulator/tuner/decryptor to deal with the digital cable signal.

 

[Hall]

The "box" that TWC supplies isn't simply an empty shell with an F-connector on it... There's a bit more to it than that.

 

[WordWaster]

I have run cable into both a Thomson DTV box and a Sony HD200 and it worked just fine. All I was running was basic, however. I never tried to run any digital cable through the box because I was a DTV customer at the time. My wife insisted on the basic cable to get the local weather on the weather channel.

 

[Houston]

terryfoster,
Thank you for your informative reply, but I wonder if there aren’t some Sat Receivers which may be able to decode the DTV. I logged onto TitanTV.com and offer the following statement, from their FAQ.

“What do I need to start watching TV in HD?
First, you need a digital TV and a digital TV tuner. You can buy the tuner and display in an integrated DTV, with both built in. If you purchase a DTV monitor (an analog TV with the capability to display DTV) you will need to buy a DTV tuner in a separate set-top box. DTV tuners can be included in a DTV satellite receiver, a DTV capable digital cable box or an over-the-air DTV tuner.”

Though this is a very general statement, I thought that someone might have run across a Sat Receiver, that would decode, and may provide me with a resource (website/name) where I may see the Models and cost of such equipment.

Additionally I believe that once the Service is installed, and I’m paying for it, I can do anything I want, which includes receiving/decoding it, with any receiver I may own, or rent. I limit that to only the service I’m paying for, not TiVo or another “type” of service which is Proprietary, and “renting” a Cable Card, is not the direction I wish to go.

hall,
I appreciate your reminder, of the complexity of today’s electronics. I’ve had some experience the field, and applaud the remarkable advances in this type technology.

WordWaster,
I’m not familiar with the types of equipment you mentioned, but agree, most of the newer TV’s will receive “Basic” and most of the “Standard” channels in Packages from TWC.
I have just “upgraded” to “Digital Value” with TWC, and have seen that the standard service is no different from the upgrade, having checked the other receivers, which do not have a “Box”.

I suspect that the Box is nothing more than a Decoder for some limited number of channels, which were present on the Standard service all along.

A Receiver I’ve recently purchased (not TWC’s), has a dual tuner. One which receives the Cable programming, and the second, is DTV, which I’m using a Yagi Antenna on, and was amazed to be able to receive nearly 40 HDTV channels, over the air, and free to view. That’s about 30 more than TWC offers, and I just can’t believe they would want you to actually “PAY” for that limited amount of channels, when you can get them for free, and in NO WAY violate any law !

I’m not sure, but it sounds like your Sony HD200 may receive Free to Air (OTA) channels, with no more than about a $50 investment, in a small antenna, depending how far you are from the Transmitters. In my case, it’s only about 7 miles, and the HD just booms in !

I get Doppler, Plus, Now and two other Weather Channels (in HD) with excellent sound and picture, your wife would probably like them a lot. You could test your Sony or other Receiver with just a set of Rabbit Ears to start, then if it is receiving, even poorly with them, get a larger antenna for a strong signal. The one time investment, would probably save you a LOT of money over the years of expected service.

 

[terryfoster]

Ok, first it sounds like you're confusing HDTV with digital television or DTV. I highly doubt you're seeing 40 HDTV channels in your area. Your local weather channels are mostly likely not HDTV (which, defined in a nutshell, is a signal greater than 480i or 480p).

Second, sure some satellite receivers will be able to decode ATSC 8VSB DTV. Cable uses QAM for their ATSC signals while OTA broadcasts use 8VSB. So it is unlikely a satellite receiver will be able to decode any ATSC signals sent over cable.

Third, on top of the QAM used for cable they also encrypt their signals, which is where their equipment comes in (box or cable card). Sure you can find a QAM capable ATSC tuner and you will be able to watch any unencrypted channels provided by your cable operator, but those are generally limited to the channels you can get for free OTA. You need the cable provider's equipment to decrypt the digital channels you are paying for.

 

[stevenl]

Well here is the deal on that, When you order a digital box usally the cost of those "Extra" channels are included in the rental fee of the box, so by not using there box in essence you are stealing those channels. So stop being a tightwad and pay your bill.. if you worry about the price then you cant afford it so cancel it. or lower your package, TV is a luxory item if its not in your budget get rid of it.

 

[Houston]

terryfoster,
I was a little taken back, by your doubt of the quantity of channels I’m receiving! I’ve just started looking into this (DTV/HD) area, and it brought up a question in my mind, if I’m actually calling a Spade a Spade! I’ll try to make this brief as possible:

When I got my digital receiver, I logged on and found I should go to Antennaweb, and find out just what was available in my area. I saw that I had seven (7) transmitting towers in my area, somewhat in a semicircle around my location. Having a Yagi (Rad-Shack 80”) Antenna in my attic already, I got up and started doing the Azimuth adjustments to bring them in.

WOW, it was HOT up there, and at my age, running up and down the stairs, adjusting and doing the Auto Searches, I just didn’t make any notes on the first five antennas (A to E). But, I remember seeing about twelve to fifteen channels, just on them. My F and G Towers are very close together and only about seven miles away, and I found 32 Channels with that one setting of Azimuth, and left it there, GLADLY, and got my butt out of that hot attic!

Those two have most of Channels I want to watch anyway, but, I noticed how the list of Channels I got from TitanTV listed them from Ch.1 thru Ch.6, and have one Channel, #14, that has (I guess) six “sub” Channels, and several of the other “.1’s” that have from one to four of those “sub-channels”.

Antennaweb listed, for my F and G towers, a total of 16, “.1” Channels, which produced a total of 32 channels, all which are transmitting different programming, and I assumed that any of them could or are, capable of transmitting HD. If I was wrong about that, I apologize, and would appreciate a clarification, if I’ve misstated that.

Right now, a Rotator for the Antenna is not within my budget, but, with one of those, I’m sure that I could receive considerably more than forty channels of OTA programming.

I see on the Program Guide from TitanTV, were there the call letters of the Stations, are followed by several types of nomenclature, such as DT, DT2 etc, could not understanding that/those, have caused me to think that all were HD channels? I have noticed one thing from the Guide, and it seems that most of the programs that are identified “HD”, are listed on the “.1” Channel(s).

The other information you offered, is going to take a little “Glossary” time for me, but, I appreciate it, and probably will have additional questions concerning those issues. This post is getting a little long already, but I feel compelled to continue, please excuse me.

Satguys,
Participating on this website has been a joy for me, the (no doubt) hours of time, that Iceberg, PSB, ScottG, towerguy, techpuppy (and SO many others), has been so helpful getting me started in FTA and now OTA. Saying that I appreciate your time and valuable information, is WELL short of proper thanks, for you (all).
I have endeavored to be polite, objective, and appreciative of anyone’s help, and attempted to offer what limited information I may have, to any and all who may be assisted by it, and what I’m about to say, may just cause me to get “booted” off this site! BUT, there’s a limit of how much “crap” I can take, so here goes………..

stevenl,
Look, you arrogant self-centered son of a batch, you DON’T know me, and I don’t want to know you! It just happens that I’m a retired Senior Citizen, on a VERY limited income, and it weren’t for some extra loving kids of mine, I wouldn’t have a TV, Cable, or even a house to watch it in.
I’ll do EVERYTHING I can, to keep them from spending one more nickel than necessary, to make my life as comfortable as it is, for the time I got left !
You take your haughty, frackin, 123 Easy St, rich guy attitude, and stick it where it hurts, and if you can’t come up with something helpful, then keep your ash hole shut!
Frack off, mother fracker!

Axiom:
Don’t kick a dog when’s he’s down, specially an old one.
Contrary to popular belief, very few old dogs, are toothless.

 

[terryfoster]

I think it can be simply said, not all digital (DTV) broadcasts are HD broadcasts regardless of their program number distinction (.1, .2, etc). Sure all digital broadcasts are capable of carrying a HD broadcast, but generally you won't find more than one HD program on a broadcast.

Another general way to tell the difference between HD and SD broadcasts is by aspect ratio. HD broadcasts will always be 16:9, while SD is generally 4:3 with an occasional 16:9 broadcast. Your HDTV/tuner may have a display option that would list the format of the program you're watching and you're looking for 720p or 1080i.

Over the air you will find your major affiliates (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, PBS, CW, and MyNetworkTV) should carry a HD broadcast on one of their subchannels (normally on .1). The other subchannels will be SD only. There are always exceptions like in my area with WPTO that carries it's HD programming on the .6 subchannel.


Using antenna web along with AVS, here are some/all of your local DTV stations:
02.1 KPRC-DT (NBC) (2.1 1080i, 2.2 480i, 2.3 480i, 2.4 480i)
08.1 KUHT-DT (PBS) (8.1 1080i, 8.2 480i)
11.1 KHOU-DT (CBS) (11.1 1080i, 11.2 480i)
13.1 KTRK-DT (ABC) (13.1 720p, 13.2 480i, 13.3 480i)
14.1 KETH-DT (TBN) (14.1 480i, 14.2 480i, 14.3 480i,14.4 480i)
20.1 KTXH-DT (MNT) (20.1 1080i)
22.1 KLTJ-DT (DAY) (???)
26.1 KRIV-DT (FOX) (26.1 720p)
39.1 KHCW-DT (CW) (39.1 1080i, 39.2 480i)
45.1 KXLN-DT (UNI) (45.1 480i)
47.1 KTMD-DT (TEL) (47.1 480p)
49.1 KPXB-DT (i) (49.1 480i, 49.2 480i, 49.3 480i, 49.4 480i)
51.1 KNWS-DT (IND) (51.1 480i)
55.1 KTBU-DT (IND) (55.1 480i)
57.1 KAZH-DT (AZA) (57.1 480i)
61.1 KZJL-DT (IND) (61.1 480i)
67.1 KFTH-DT (TFA) (67.1 480i)

So it looks like you have 7 HDTV channels, 23 SD channels, and one independent that I can't account for (which is probably SD only too).

Also check out your local AVS forum for great detail on your local market:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=452612

If you haven't discovered it yet, www.Wikipedia.com is a good place to look up terms you aren't familar with like QAM, 8VSB, ATSC and other terms I used that you may not understand.

 

[terryfoster]

Oh, to summarize my earlier post about tuners:

You will need to buy a Cable Card device (certain new HDTVs, a TiVo Series 3, or some other external cable card device) and then rent a cable card for each device you buy, or you will need to rent a cable box.

A satellite box will not help you with digital cable.

 

[stevenl]

Forgive me houston if I upset you, I must of mistaken what you were talking of, I thought you were saying using a "card" or "sat box" to steal cable tv service.. Not OTA service...

I have no respect for those who steal, but from what i read in your last post i see clearly now what you meant. Sorry for misreading your original posts.


OHH and one more thing my freind I am far from rich heh, 1 2 3 easy st is a motto of Bright House Networks in there commercials "Our customers are on Easy st with BHN"

again forgive me for misreading what you wrote it was very confusing but the last post really brought in what you meant I see some others were a tad confused as well.. I mean no disrepect

 

[Houston]

terryfoster,
WOW, THANK YOU!, I hope you cut and pasted that list from somewhere, it’d taken me thirty minutes to type all that out! I really appreciate it.

Actually, I had something like that, but didn’t know what it was! Iceberg gave me a URL for RadioStationWorld, which I opened and saved, but didn’t know how to read the information.

As far as Cable Devices and Cards, ummm, I just don’t want to get into Rentals or more monthly payments. Actually, what my objective is, to get as much Analog/Dig UHF/VHF OTA and FTA working as best as I can, and do away with the TWC completely.

I’m sure that I’ll be forfeiting lots of Channels I really like to watch, but, I must cut that out. I don’t mind doing a one time purchase, which in most cases I can realize a payback within a few months, given what TWC is asking for their service.

Still looking at the other info and URL you gave earlier. I only have a limited amount of time on the Internet each day, and sometimes it takes me a while to see all I want to.

 

[Houston]

stevenl,

Thank you for taking time to review my post. Actually, it should be I, who is apologizing to you.
At times I suppose most all of us, get a little touchy about a subject, and coupled with a hard day, well, things can be said, often times, sharply.

I remember a phrase, don’t know who said it first, but:
“Words are like Arrows, once sent, you can’t get them back.”

Fortunately, feelings are different, and I appreciate you extending yours.

I have been offline for a while, and this Post is very belated, I sincerely apologize for that, too.
I suppose I could have done this in PM, but it didn’t seem appropriate, a public apology is.

Have a good Day !

 

[Pepper]

I remember a phrase, don’t know who said it first, but:
“Words are like Arrows, once sent, you can’t get them back.”

Though some have read what you said before and already been affected as you infer by the quote, you can always go back and use the "Edit Post" button if you wanted to remove what might be considered offensive by some.

 

[Houston]

Pepper,
Apparently the time period for Editing has lapsed, and I can not delete the message, or I would.

Have a good Day !