Finally!

[Dee_Ann]

Ok, so I've been struggling to get a Cband dish up now for a good while.

Struggling with finding someone to do the labor that is.

Long story short, I pretty much have someone lined up to do the labor for me this weekend coming.

I'm putting up a 10' mesh dish, it's pretty light, I can lift the four panels all at once when it was in a disassembled state. Once all the other stuff is on it though I'm sure it's going to be pretty darn heavy. Anyway...

I'm also putting up one of those little 6' dishes that were on sale last year for $80.

I have a Gbox to move the 10' dish with. I do not have one for the 6' dish.

I also have no idea yet how I will connect the Cband dishes into my system but that's down the road still.


My dad purchased a pole, I think it was 21' long to begin with and he had them cut it to fit in his van. The longest that would fit was 11 1/2' and that left the other piece being 9 1/2' long.

I'm thinking that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that I need a minimum of 6' of pole sticking out of the ground so that the 10' dish will have 1' of clearance under it. I would prefer that it have more clearance but, I'm worried about having enough of the pole in the ground to survive a hurricane.

On the 11 1/2' pole, if I leave 6' sticking out of the ground then that means I will only be able to put 5 1/2' in the ground. Is that enough? I was thinking that the hole will be like, 16" around and my dad estimated it will take 16 sacks of cement, each sack being 80lbs. That would be 1,280lbs of cement on that pole.

Would this be strong enough to survive a category 2 hurricane? (sustained winds of 110mph)


Next up is the 6' dish. See the attached photo..

The pole for it is 9 1/2' long. My concern with it though is that it is solid vs the mesh. So in a storm it's going to have more pressure on it than the mesh would.

BUT, the thing is very flimsy and it's already bent in several places on the edges and to be honest, I think that the first tropical storm (max wind of 73mph) we get here, that thing will fold up like a cheap suit and it will go into the trash pile at the curb. I have no faith in that dish at all to withstand a storm.

Anyway.. So let's just ~pretend~ that it would survive a storm. If I put that pole 4' in the ground, leaving me 5 1/2' out of the ground so that the dish should have 2' of ground clearance, would that be deep enough?


Also. I do not have a device for moving the 6' dish, yet. Eventually I will but for now I think what I would like to do is point it at one satellite and leave it there until I can get another Gbox for it.

What would be the best satellite to park a 6' dish on? I'm looking for something like ThisTV, RTV, TV Land, etc... I like old b&w movies too, like White Springs used to run. So I'm open to suggestions/recommendations. I've never poked around on Cband and have no idea what's up there yet.


Oh and lastly, trees...

I know for a fact that trees are a problem with KU satellite. But I have heard that it's not much of a concern with Cband. Is this true? My yard is surrounded by trees. My house faces almost directly south and my back yard, I have a clear view of the southern sky but there are trees to the east and west sides of my yard so satellites that are low to the horizon are a bit tricky for me. White Springs was a tough one, I got lucky and was able to aim between two trees to get it.

I'm also currently getting the Cuban satellite but I have the dish aimed down at the ground (appears to be) and is looking through a whole bunch of trees. Once they get green again I'm going to have problems getting that satellite. Realistically I think my West limit would be like where White Springs was at and my East limit is maybe a little past the RTV satellite on 83. I could maybe get things in the 70's, IF trees are a problem. If trees are not a problem then I could probably go like 10 degrees further each way.

I dunno. I know almost ~nothing~ about Cband, how to get it, what it's limitations are, abilities, programs, tuning, nothing.... Consider me to be a total Cband idiot with zero experience because, that's exactly what I am.


Thanks guys!

 

[turbosat]

Yes and yes, on the pole-planting Dee. Should be plenty in the ground for that size dish, with the concrete added in. I have a 10' that has about 6' above ground, and it has plenty of clearance between dish and ground when its on 137W, which is rare. If you have to mow under it, you may need to remember to park it on 87W or someplace higher in the sky so you don't bump into it. Or just weed=eater under it like I do. (its hard to do damage to a 10' with your head while running the weedeater). Trees probably won't be a big deal, there's not that much on anything west of 123 that isn't scrambled on c-band. Wind-loading, not sure about hurricanes but I remember reading someplace that above a certain dish-size , the wind-loading is about the same for solid vs mesh, can't recall the formula right off for it though. You'll pick it all up quickly once you start assembling, if you had an old analog receiver it might make aiming easier, but if not, an angle meter will suffice.

 

[HIFI]

Don't forget the pics throughout the install.

 

[macgod79]

Good to see it going up dee. Let us know on the progress. Wish I could find me a good 10 footer but I think my wife would kill me.lol

 

[FaT Air]

1- I need a minimum of 6' of pole sticking out of the ground so that the 10' dish will have 1' of clearance under it. -
I think that will give you more than 1 ft clearance, more like two, minimum, with the actuator attached.
2- 5 1/2' in the ground. Is that enough? -
I'm not a engineer but think the pole will survive, Check with the manufacturer for "Wind Survival" of the dish.
3- Solid vs mesh. So in a storm it's (solid) going to have more pressure on it than the mesh would.-
Not necessarily true. Mesh is effectivley closed in a strong wind. Many car grills are so designed to generate more airflow over the car (drag reduction) at highway speed.
4- leaving me 5 1/2' out of the ground so that the dish should have 2' of ground clearance, would that be deep enough? -
See answer for 2-
5- ThisTV, RTV-
And MeTV are all on 87W. Being 6ft, carefull aiming is required for the S2 RTV mux on 4080, the other mux may be too weak.(from others reports Hope I got those in the right order)
6- Trees, But I have heard that it's not much of a concern with Cband. Is this true? -
Trees are a problem, although when the leaves come off in the fall, some signals can then get through, IF you're not too far down into the branches. (That's 139 here, but thinking, next year will be impossible as the neighbors trees are growing.)
7- I dunno. I know almost ~nothing~ about Cband -
It's pretty much the same as Ku, just the wavelength is longer, meaning the hardware is BiGgEr. Dish, LNBF, pole, and the footprint it all uses in your yard, all bigger. Rainfade is almost nonexistant in C band. The wave length is longer than the raindrops, so it just goes around the H2O. Not so with Ku. The Only thing different, is setting up a polar mount. Just a little bit of new terminology to understand. Not too much, or as technical, to require a secondary education.
Here's a link to look up your Modified Declination angle: Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing
And the attached picture showing the angle relationships, simplified.
Keep up the effort, you're getting close to the reward, C Band!

 

[Dee_Ann]

Oh yes, I will be sure to take plenty of pics as it goes up. I'll have to ask the guy doing the work first though if it's ok to put his picture online of course.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Oh yes, I will be sure to take plenty of pics as it goes up. I'll have to ask the guy doing the work first though if it's ok to put his picture online of course.

In keeping with the family site theme, please make sure he's wearing clothes in the pictures.

I bet you can wait to have them up. My C Band dish has been running great since getting it fixed. Its amazing what you can find up there sometimes.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Dee_Ann]

omg.. This polar mount stuff has me freaking out. New terminology and, math...
Or is it geometry? Either way, I stink at math. Geometry, I have no clue at all. My math skills are very, very basic. I hope there are calculators online to help set up these Cband dishes..

 

[HIFI]

In keeping with the family site theme, please make sure he's wearing clothes in the pictures.

I bet you can wait to have them up. My C Band dish has been running great since getting it fixed. Its amazing what you can find up there sometimes.

Good luck and have fun!

:haha:haha

 

[primestar31]

Don't forget to drill a hole through the bottom of the pipe, and stick a long bolt (or piece of "all thread" through it. Say about 1 foot from the bottom. That way when you cement it, that bolt will stop the possibility of the pipe spinning after the cement sets up. Sort of like a "t" (only upside down)

 

[Dee_Ann]

In keeping with the family site theme, please make sure he's wearing clothes in the pictures.

I bet you can wait to have them up. My C Band dish has been running great since getting it fixed. Its amazing what you can find up there sometimes.

Good luck and have fun!

Well of course... I'm a very G-rated kinda person though I must admit that sometimes I may cut loose with a bad word here and there when something goes wrong, like dropping food in the kitchen. Besides, I'm pretty sure you guys could care less about seeing a guy working without a shirt. If he does take his shirt off I won't take any pictures anyway cause his girlfriend is my best friend and I don't want her to think I'm like being stalker-y over her guy. Our friendship comes first.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Don't forget to drill a hole through the bottom of the pipe, and stick a long bolt (or piece of "all thread" through it. Say about 1 foot from the bottom. That way when you cement it, that bolt will stop the possibility of the pipe spinning after the cement sets up. Sort of like a "t" (only upside down)

Gotcha.. Someone had suggested the same thing back a few months ago when I tried to get this off the ground the first time. So I called my dad and he is going to come by this week with a big old drill and a few pieces of rebar rods. He said he has some that is 3/8" around, he's going to cut a few pieces 1' long, drill holes in the poles and put the rebars through them. He also suggested I have the guy dig the holes to be odd shaped, not perfectly round so as to prevent the cement itself from spinning around in the mud when it's flooded (which is frequent here) and the wind is blowing. I'm dead on the edge of the Gulf of Mexico so the wind is almost always blowing from the south around the clock, not to mention, we get hurricanes here pretty frequently as well.

When hurricane Ike blew through here we had 14 hours of sustained hurricane force winds. I rode it out at my parents house and it was SCARY. Most hurricanes blow through in an hour or two at the most. Rita was Cat 3 for about an hour then died off fast, most of it was nothing to even sweat. But that one hour of Cat 3, that was pretty nasty. We caught the dirty side of Ike but the eye came ashore a pretty good ways off from here. Even so, it was scary and there was some damage but we came out of it better than we did Rita. Humberto went from nothing to a hurricane knocking on our front door in a matter of about 2 hours. But it was a weak Cat 1 and all it did was clean the squirrel nests out of the trees and take down some dead limbs. Oh, flooded the yard of course and took out the power for about 6 hours. Boring...

Those are the notable hurricanes of recent vintage. There's been plenty others of course. I really, really hate hurricanes.

 

[primestar31]

Make the holes "upside down" cone shaped. Smaller at the top, and tapering out at the bottom. Put a layer of gravel at the bottom for drainage of ground water. That helps keep it from lifting up from water pressure. If the dirt at the bottom of the hole is fairly soft, I lay out some flat patio blocks on top of the gravel, and the pole placed sitting on the block. That helps keep it from sinking.

I have to do that up here, or the pole could sink to China.

For the hurricane issue, once you get everything dialed in the way you want, you can make marks on the pole with a good Sharpie, or scratch lines with a nail. Right across the pole, and onto the polar mount. That way you could always get the dish lifted off the pole, and put away during the Hurricane. Then later, just pop it back on, line up the marks, and tighten it down.

 

[goaliebob99]

omg.. This polar mount stuff has me freaking out. New terminology and, math...
Or is it geometry? Either way, I stink at math. Geometry, I have no clue at all. My math skills are very, very basic. I hope there are calculators online to help set up these Cband dishes..

Dont worry about the polar mount. Just make sure your mount is set to the elevation of your area and the dish's mount (what holds the panels to the dish) is set to your declination elevation (your elevation plus declination) move the dish to its highest point and point to true south. Its really easy if you have your elevations set right.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dont worry about the polar mount. Just make sure your mount is set to the elevation of your area and the dish's mount (what holds the panels to the dish) is set to your declination elevation (your elevation plus declination) move the dish to its highest point and point to true south. Its really easy if you have your elevations set right.

Uh oh... I'm think I'm already in over my head now....

 

[Dee_Ann]

OMG......

History is history on 101... I'm grieving.. :river

The guy that I had a deal with to put up my big Cband dishes, did not show up today, he didn't even call. I am NOT happy.

He told me he wanted to do the work Friday because next week he starts working 12 hour days 7 days a week and won't be able to do it.

If he doesn't show or call tomorrow, I'm going to find someone else to do the flippin work!

The snakey neighbor next door that was trying to fast talk me into a slick deal for my car, I pinned him down earlier in the week about doing the work and we agreed on a deal that I was OK with.

So if this first guy doesn't show tomorrow I'm going to talk to the dude next door and have him do it.

I'm so frustrated right now :rant: that I might just go dig the flippin holes myself! I'm not supposed to do ~anything~ (doctor's orders) but by golly I'm about ready to revolt and do it anyway!

The cement, there is NO WAY I can do that. Those bags weigh 80lbs and I can't budge them. I had a very difficult time getting a 40lb bag of dog food out of the car, into the house then lift it 2 feet high and dump it into a container. That about killed me. I can't believe I can't lift 40lbs..

I don't know what to do about the cement. Both guys I talked to said they want to dump them in the hole and pour water in.

I said "NO."

Even I know that's not cool. The heavy gravel sinks and the cement powder floats to the top and the stuff is not mixed right. My dad backs me up on that. You have to mix it in a wheel barrow or a machine for it to be proper, like chunky peanut butter then you pour it in.

DUH. As Charlie Sheen would say..

These guys I talked to about doing the work don't want to listen to me and do it the way I tell them, they think they are smarter than me and that they know better than I do. Um, yeah. OK...

So I'm going to tell them that if they are going to do the work for me they are going to do it the way I tell them to. I know it will chap their hide to have to be told by a woman how to do something but tough cookies. Do it my way or don't do it at all and I'll pay someone else who will.


Earlier today I moved the 1 meter lawn chair dish around, from the Cuba satellite which I rarely watch to the PBS satellite which I watch a pretty good bit. It's the largest ku dish I have and PBS has been herky-jerky a lot recently so I assumed a bigger dish would help with the S2 channels and other HD channels. It does, a little bit.

But my Birddog meter couldn't find PBS even though I downloaded the new file from their site that said *NEW 2011* next to it.

I ended up setting the dish elevation and skew according to what I read online then used the squealie meter to try to pin it down as best I could.

It's there but I think I could do better. I need to edit the birddog profiles by hand I guess, I think the company is in England and they cater to the pizza dish installers and European satellites. American FTA satellites on their site rarely work.

I'm going to have to play musical satellite dishes again, 101 is now useless to me so I need to find something else to point it at. I need to get that flippin ku motor mounted onto one of those dishes too so I can sit inside and move a dish around to any satellite I want.

This is getting very, very annoying. Less and less channels, my options are getting fewer and fewer and I can't get anyone to put those stupid big dishes up without pulling teeth!

I predict that in the next two years there will be absolutely nothing at all on FTA satellite. Corporate greedsters are going to muscle them all off the air so that you have two choices only, pay big $$$ to watch TV or do without it totally.

I thought about hiring someone off craiglist to do the work but then I realized how deeply stupid that would be, bringing a total stranger here. So much for that idea.

Maybe I can dig the holes then have a cement truck bring cement already made up, use the trailer for my riding mower to take it from out front to the back and shovel it into the hole a little at a time. That little trailer can't take much weight though so it would take me a lot of trips. I'm thinking there should be a sticker on the trailer telling what the weight limit is on the thing. I could lay a tarp in it to line it against damage from the cement. It has a tailgate that lifts out too so I could get it near the hole, pull the tailgate out and shovel it out into the hole then go back for another load. The truck driver may get mad at me but oh well.

I don't know what else to do but I'm really getting angry at this whole thing, losing channels like mad on KU and I have two Cband dishes ready to put up and I can't because everyone flakes out on me after they agree to do the work. :rant:

 

[primestar31]

OMG......

History is history on 101... I'm grieving.. :river

The guy that I had a deal with to put up my big Cband dishes, did not show up today, he didn't even call. I am NOT happy.

He told me he wanted to do the work Friday because next week he starts working 12 hour days 7 days a week and won't be able to do it.

If he doesn't show or call tomorrow, I'm going to find someone else to do the flippin work!

The snakey neighbor next door that was trying to fast talk me into a slick deal for my car, I pinned him down earlier in the week about doing the work and we agreed on a deal that I was OK with.

So if this first guy doesn't show tomorrow I'm going to talk to the dude next door and have him do it.

I'm so frustrated right now :rant: that I might just go dig the flippin holes myself! I'm not supposed to do ~anything~ (doctor's orders) but by golly I'm about ready to revolt and do it anyway!

The cement, there is NO WAY I can do that. Those bags weigh 80lbs and I can't budge them. I had a very difficult time getting a 40lb bag of dog food out of the car, into the house then lift it 2 feet high and dump it into a container. That about killed me. I can't believe I can't lift 40lbs..

I don't know what to do about the cement. Both guys I talked to said they want to dump them in the hole and pour water in.

I said "NO."

Even I know that's not cool. The heavy gravel sinks and the cement powder floats to the top and the stuff is not mixed right. My dad backs me up on that. You have to mix it in a wheel barrow or a machine for it to be proper, like chunky peanut butter then you pour it in.

DUH. As Charlie Sheen would say..

These guys I talked to about doing the work don't want to listen to me and do it the way I tell them, they think they are smarter than me and that they know better than I do. Um, yeah. OK...

So I'm going to tell them that if they are going to do the work for me they are going to do it the way I tell them to. I know it will chap their hide to have to be told by a woman how to do something but tough cookies. Do it my way or don't do it at all and I'll pay someone else who will.


Earlier today I moved the 1 meter lawn chair dish around, from the Cuba satellite which I rarely watch to the PBS satellite which I watch a pretty good bit. It's the largest ku dish I have and PBS has been herky-jerky a lot recently so I assumed a bigger dish would help with the S2 channels and other HD channels. It does, a little bit.

But my Birddog meter couldn't find PBS even though I downloaded the new file from their site that said *NEW 2011* next to it.

I ended up setting the dish elevation and skew according to what I read online then used the squealie meter to try to pin it down as best I could.

It's there but I think I could do better. I need to edit the birddog profiles by hand I guess, I think the company is in England and they cater to the pizza dish installers and European satellites. American FTA satellites on their site rarely work.

I'm going to have to play musical satellite dishes again, 101 is now useless to me so I need to find something else to point it at. I need to get that flippin ku motor mounted onto one of those dishes too so I can sit inside and move a dish around to any satellite I want.

This is getting very, very annoying. Less and less channels, my options are getting fewer and fewer and I can't get anyone to put those stupid big dishes up without pulling teeth!

I predict that in the next two years there will be absolutely nothing at all on FTA satellite. Corporate greedsters are going to muscle them all off the air so that you have two choices only, pay big $$$ to watch TV or do without it totally.

I thought about hiring someone off craiglist to do the work but then I realized how deeply stupid that would be, bringing a total stranger here. So much for that idea.

Maybe I can dig the holes then have a cement truck bring cement already made up, use the trailer for my riding mower to take it from out front to the back and shovel it into the hole a little at a time. That little trailer can't take much weight though so it would take me a lot of trips. I'm thinking there should be a sticker on the trailer telling what the weight limit is on the thing. I could lay a tarp in it to line it against damage from the cement. It has a tailgate that lifts out too so I could get it near the hole, pull the tailgate out and shovel it out into the hole then go back for another load. The truck driver may get mad at me but oh well.

I don't know what else to do but I'm really getting angry at this whole thing, losing channels like mad on KU and I have two Cband dishes ready to put up and I can't because everyone flakes out on me after they agree to do the work. :rant:

Actually, it is possible to add water to the hole, dump in some of the cement, and stir it up, then add more water and cement and keep stirring. Sorta like making hot chocolate. I've done it now and again, and it can work if needed.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Do you change the BER setting on the Birdog? By default, they are set up for stronger DTH services and need the setting changed to provide increased sensitivity for FSS signals. In the default setting they are pretty useless for FSS work.

I have to disagree with your suggestion that FTA will go away any time soon. There are more channels in the clear now than at anytime in the past 25+ years that I have been in the sat biz. More flavors of encoding types, but more backhauls and 24/7 stations than at the peak of the BUD days!

 

[T4Runner]

I agree about the BER.. it makes a BIG difference in sensitivity in that meter, when I had one. Finally changed to a SuperBuddy and still set the BER.

 

[kodaz]

I have never bought any, but there are Cementitious substances that you can just put in the hole and ground water or water put on it will set it. My friend from the turnpike told me this. He inspects concrete products for a living. As a general rule, a slow set is a stronger concrete. I cant recommend this for a pole that might shift before the concrete sets though.
Some folks do it for fence posts.
Kodaz