Flat cable wire caused fire

[birdfinder]

HD vs. SD is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT when you're discussing the cable from the LNB to the satellite receiver. The frequencies are many many times that needed for baseband video (the only time HD vs SD would be relevant), and not any different for HD vs SD.

ATSC pixel clock is 74.25MHz. Compare that to the 2.150GHz needed for a DishPro Plus LNB.

I guess this means the picture quality doesnt make a difference. I always wondered why rg59 burned out.

 

[Stargazer]

I remember there being a DP approved flat cable that Dish Network brought to market a while back, as Claude mentioned, but you do not hear about this much. Flat cables are only used as a last resort.

 

[Tyralak]

I can tell you from when I was a DNSC tech, That flat wire is not approved for an install because of this. Sounds like you had a subcontractor do your install. I would call up that company/person and threaten to sue because flat wire is a liability when it comes to satellite installs as well requesting payment for any thing damaged. Its designed for OTA and not to have any power inserted through it, like satellite is doing.

No, we stock the crap now. We've had them for two years. Supposedly it's the "new and improved" stuff. I still don't trust it.

 

[Tyralak]

Its too bad they do not make these anymore...

http://www.channelplus.com/pdf/manuals/1112manual.pdf

How the hell can that thing pass voltage?

 

[rocket69]

Glass Link was the $hit. DTV 101 only and 1 receiver never worked better .. never tried it now with all the DPP KA/KU gear.



I Found one at my current office and all the guys whir looking at me like ive met president Lincoln when i was explaining this jurassic device

 

[Jim S.]

How the hell can that thing pass voltage?

Apparatus for transmitting ... - Google Patents

 

[n1wbd]

Thanks n1wbd.

That site says "Image coming soon".
Any change I could get a quick description of it? No structural modifications are needed?

It's a piece of aluminum that is adjustable by sliding in and out I believe and has different types of connectors for antennas and rotor cables. They have a couple of different models. Depending on your needs. You might be able to see a photo at the Ham radio outlet website.

HRO Ham Radio Outlet Worldwide Supplier of Amateur Radio Electronics Equipment

They are a dealer for MFJ you can also order a paper catalog from MFJ on their website for free.

At MFJ Enterprises Inc.

Bob

 

[Drdeceased]

Ok you need to use the good flat cables.

The big mistake is that the installer put the cable on the wrong part of the door. It should not be put on the part of the slider that opens and closes all the time. The installer needs to pull the other side of the door and put the cables through there. That side never opens so you don't have the wear on the cable.

All the installer has to do is remove the stops that hold the other side of the slider in. Run the cables behind that door panel then put it back and reinstall the stops.

I never put flat cables in the part of the door that opens and closes.

That is the correct way to use the cable.
To bad most techs are to lazy to partially disassemble the door to install it right.

 

[NickRogers]

Good advice. Remember, asbestos was approved at one time too.

Don't forget about cigarettes being healthy, lead pipe for potable drinking water, ecstasy was a clinical drug to "help" people feel better. The list could go on and on.


Nick

 

[dishcomm]

I thought I heard many satellite shops won't install flat fire coax because of things like this?

i don't like them I try to avoid them at all costs.
This fire thing I did not know about.
Apartment installs are a bear. Management companies prohibit drill penetrations at almost a 100% rate.
So in order to convey the cable from out to in, we either send it thru a window( in which case the customer will no longer be able to fully close that window) or we use a flat cable.
Dish threw another curveball at us. If the system cannot be grounded, we are NOT to do the job. Period.
Since most apartment mgmnt companies prohibit the connection of a satelite system to any part of the building electrical system for grounding purposes, using an outdoor ficture or elect. outlet is out of the question.
So apartment installs are pretty much dead in the water.

 

[dishcomm]

I wonder why they're installing it if it's not approved. It was an official Dish Network installer who installed it last July. Every resident in my complex who has a dish is using the same flat cable (according to the residence office).

Dish Network told me they will send someone out to install a new flat cable tomorrow. Are NO flat cables approved? Is there any other way to get the signal inside w/o a hole in the wall?

actually the flatties we use ARE DISH approved. And they retail for $30 each.

 

[dishcomm]

They are suppose to do a test of the outlet with a tester before the tech does the install. If the tech failed to do this, then its the liability of the installation company for doing that and using non approved dish network wire.

That is not correct. We are not liable for faulty in home wiring. Ever.
If I am on a service call I will test an outlet for faults. But that is it. If the outlet is malfunctioning in such a way that the tester will not detect the malfunction using ytour logic the tech could still be held liable for fire or other damage to the dwelling. I don't think so.
If on a new connect and there are other devices connected to that outlet I do not test the outlet for fauts.
Why should I . The outlet is working perfectly before I got there.
Are you implying that we as satellite techs are responsible for the customer's electrical system?

 

[dishcomm]

Or they could say no satellite systems. They certainly don't have to let you drill holes nor do they have to allow cable that is a fire hazard.

Mario

that would be correct. Of course that is another can of worms.
We will now see responses from some on here that will quote the FCC regs chapter and verse on how apartment complexes cannot deny access to satellite tv. Oh contrare. The law does not say that.
But again, that is for another day.
I have personally been told by one large management company here and by one individual apartment complex owner that satellite antennas are prohibited from the respective properties.
Anyway 99% of them won't allow drilling of any kind.

 

[dishcomm]

most apartments have air conditioners - every apartment around here has one. I don't use flat cable - for reasons already discussed, but why can't the cables come in through the air conditioner vent?

Pretty much do all of my apartment installs that way - apartments will not let you drill holes. I can understand why - tenants usually are not there for life.

the AC vent?
Please elaborate.

 

[dishcomm]

That is the correct way to use the cable.
To bad most techs are to lazy to partially disassemble the door to install it right.

Just a minute.. Lazy? I find that comment offensive.
And just suppose the door assembly does not allow for this to be done? Or if the managment company prohibits it? Or if during the removal process something breaks and the door cannot be rescured?

I believ what is being lost here is the fact that the customer DOES NOT own the property. Therefore anything the tech does he takes on full liability.
Not me. Nope.
If the manager gives me the ok to do any of the things suggested here I will do so. But never on my own.

 

[Agonizing Fury]

The amount of power that can go through the cable depends on a lot of things. The only thing I can think of that could possibly create enough heat for that to happen is a DPP44 switch power inserter. The most power a dish receiver, that is operating properly, will ever output is 20 Volts @ 750mA. That's only 15 watts of power (DPP44 switch is 28V @ 2000mA, or 56 watts). Beyond 750 mA(and actually as low as 650mA) the power supply will either drop the voltage to keep a continuous amperage, or cut off the power for a few seconds and try again. I suppose if it was localized enough 15W might be able to do that, but I'm wondering if there is either an open ground, or a hot ground on that electrical outlet causing the receiver to place excessive current on the shield of the cable that was grounded out when the flat cable's outer casing was broken, and the sheild came into contact with the metal door.

Just out of curiosity, what type of receiver was plugged into this cable? and did the fire marshall ever test the electrical outlet that the receiver was plugged into? If so did it have a valid ground?

For the argument of FCC vs apartment complex management, the management can legally say that you can't drill a hole, or use unsafe cable, as the FCC rules have exceptions for policies related to safety. If whoever does installs in your area got the UL listed flat cables, instead of the cheap one's they put in, there might not be anything the management could say about it.

My office uses only the TFC Amphenol cables, and we use quite a few of them, and I have not in my 2.5 years working there ever heard anything about fires, or even melted flat cables. I have replaced many of them due to damage, but not a one even smelled like it had melted a little. I have had to replaced flat cables like the one that was installed at the OP's apartment (installed by a contractor months before) with the right ones due to severe damage and none of them had any burn damage either. Makes me wonder what was different in the OP's apartment.

GoalieBob, yes it is a dishnetwork requirement to check the outlets before an installation, but that does not automatically move liability to the tech if the electrical outlets are bad. There is no law that says we have to check the outlets (at least not in my state) it's just generally a good idea. If I put sugar in my gas tank because it's cheaper than gas, then take my car in to get the brakes fixed, is it the brake shop's resposibility when my engine sceizes up 5 miles down the road from the brake shop? Nope, you're gas tank, you're responsibility.

heyjude, keep us up to date, I'd like to know more about the outcome of this.

 

[whatchel1]

1 word

How the hell can that thing pass voltage?

INDUCTION. The pdf that the guy put on the site even explains about the inductors. Thing is not sure it will pass the freqs that are used now it is only rated to 1450.

 

[Tyralak]

INDUCTION. The pdf that the guy put on the site even explains about the inductors. Thing is not sure it will pass the freqs that are used now it is only rated to 1450.

I wonder why they aren't made anymore then. It sounds like a fairly useful device.

 

[tkyoshi]

I just swiched my cable to TFC Amphenol. The cables are actually quite different. As mentione they're longer but really when feeling it it feels totally different.

The cable itself feels wayyy more sturdy and substantial. The there also feels like there's insulation inside of the cable and the connectors are of much higher quality. There was also a sheet outlining guidelines by Echostar, it seems that people might have suffered from incorrect installations of the cheap wire. It even outlines how a sharp 180 bend in the cable is a big no no either. The cable should (obviously) never be installed in a door that is used often or in the door jamb (the part that is on the side where the door locks to the frame).

The crappy (now that I know) flat cable I had before feels *very* cheap and flimsy compared to the TFC Amphenol. If you squeeze it it feels like there's nothing (insulation wise) inside, just a cheap plastic jacket and a thin coax wire inside.

I never had problems with the other cable but at least I'll sleep better at night knowing that I have an Echostar approved and UL Listed Cable.

 

[IIP]

The big problem is that flat cables were never intended to be installed on sliding glass patio doors. They were designed for windows or the hinge-side of a door, where wear and damage to the flat cable will be minimal.

Virtually 100% of customers who have a flat cable in their patio door will routinely slam the door on the flat cable. The design of many patio doors and door frames make for sharp metal edges that will tear into the flat cable and quickly ruin it, or worse.

I don't allow my techs to use flat cables in patio doors ever. If it can't be used in a window or conventional door, then another path has to be found or the job is canceled as "no landlord permission" (for drilling wall).