Help convince me that Apple Computers are worth it..

[yourbeliefs]

Some of you are probably aware of my issues with Apple and their products. However I'm not here to bash their products or complain about their business practices. Instead, I'm actually looking for someone to change my mind about Apple's computers.

Recently, people who's opinions I respect (as opposed to idiots who simply don't know how to use a computer) have been jumping on the Apple bandwagon praising their computers. Unfortunately, when I confront people about what makes their Macs better than PCs, their explanations get rather vague. I hear a lot of "they work so much better" and other equally unhelpful answers.

Another thing that people are quick to point out is that I can install and run Windows 7 on a Mac as well as OS X. To me, that's not much of a benefit, because I can't see many scenarios where I need to do something that can only be done using the Mac OS. In essence, it would mean that all the extra cost of the Mac is to pay for their OS.

Speaking of, the incredibly high price of Macintosh computers seems to be brushed off by many people as well. The next computer I plan on buying will be a power machine that can last for a good 4+ years, and to get a Mac that can do that I think I'd have to get a bank loan in order to finance it, as opposed to around $1,000 to get all the parts and build a comparable PC myself.

I've had a little bit of superficial use with Macs at my wife's university and I was far from impressed. I found the "dock" to be rather redundant, the slim keyboard was unimpressive, and the one buttoned mouse with the blackberry trackball scroller was more frustrating than anything. Also, I didn't see anything in the OS that made me want to abandon Windows 7 anytime soon.

So, from where I'm sitting, Macs appear to be overpriced machines with a lot of proprietary and unnecessary hardware with an OS that has no tangible benefits over Windows 7. Is there something I'm missing here? Can someone give me some real world examples where a Mac can do something better than a PC can? Also, don't give the examples of "You can hook up your Mac to Apple Product A and Apple Product B, etc." I'm not going to buy a whole suite of Apple hardware along with my excessively priced computer. As far as what this computer would primarily be used for, it would be a HTPC with web browsing, processing, gaming, and movie viewing.

 

[rocket69]

mac is all PC now. Build your own without that silly fruit Installing Mac OS X Leopard On A PC In Three Steps

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Before I got my last Mac I was a PC guy... I said Apples were a fruit and not a computer.

I would buy a new laptop once (sometimes twice) a year. Then my bosses son came in one day with a 17" Macbook Pro and he showed me everything he could do with it. I wanted one. At the time I was editing a lot of HD video and on my other high powered Windows machine editing HD was very rough, the machines would often lock up or blue screen while importing or rendering the HD video.

I liked that I could run Windows on it... I liked that I could drop to a console and run unix commands and I was also interested in trying out the video editing on the mac os.

That night I went and purchased a 15 inch Macbook Pro. After 5 years of service I just retired it and up until the last few months the thing was bullet proof. Up until it started having hardware issues it ran as good for me as when I got it on day one!

When I purchased my new one I understood the price was a little higher then a normal laptop but I looked back at before when I would buy up to two new laptops a year and figured the Apple was a bargin and it actually saved me money over the years.

I am now a fan of the Apple OS and its nice opening up emails without worrying about catching a virus. When you run a site like this one I get emails from people I dont know all the time so it gives me a feeling of safety.

There is almost NOTHING I can't do on my Mac.

 

[yourbeliefs]

What about the OS itself? Windows 7 seems to be fine for me. On all the machines it's been on I've had no real complaints and I don't see what makes the Leopard system so much better. Back in the day of Windows 3.11/95 I could see the advantages in terms of simplicity of the Mac OS, but nowadays I see no tangible benefit.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The OS is great once you play with it a bit. I hardly EVER boot into windows anymore. (When I got it I was in Windows 99% of the time, then slowly started playing with IOS and now I really like IOS.)

 

[lparsons21]

I was firmly in the Windows camp for many years while in the biz. But along came a big sale from a school that insisted that I provide all of the required equipment which in this case, included some Apple gear. While getting all this stuff in and working with it, I started to see why Apple had such a strong following.

The biggest thing with today's Mac line, and pretty much all along, is that Apple designs the whole widget. From the case, and all the other things to go inside it, to the OS to run it with, it is all guaranteed to operate extremely well. There is no such thing as a part made for it that is slightly incompatible. That is a big plus, imo. It is what makes them nearly bullet-proof in operation.

Of course, there is a downside to that. Because Apple tightly controls what goes in there, you are stuck with what they pick. So something may come along that you would like to add but can't. The list is getting shorter these days, but it is still there.

And yes, Apple gear is more expensive. But you can't compare what you can build at home to any brand name and have a valid comparison, imo. The difference in upfront cost between Apple and HP/Dell looks huge oft times. But that is because we all too often look at the consumer grade stuff from those two companies. When you start looking at the better designed and built business class boxes, the difference is much smaller.

And it is made even smaller for those that switch boxes every couple of years or so for some perceived need/want. And that is because used Macs have better resale value than a comparable wintel box of the same vintage.

 

[yourbeliefs]

The OS is great once you play with it a bit. I hardly EVER boot into windows anymore. (When I got it I was in Windows 99% of the time, then slowly started playing with IOS and now I really like IOS.)

Again, you haven't explained WHY it is better. You and everyone say how great it is, but never say WHY. Does the OS run faster than Windows 7, is it more stable, is the pre-installed suite of Leopard software better than that on a typical Windows 7 machine, etc?

 

[bhelms]

Disclaimer - I know nothing about Apple computers...yet. So if you're looking for a hard answer to yourbeliefs' quesion, don't waste your time reading this post. However, I might have an interesting perspective...

I'm watching this thread with interest as I am seriously considering a power laptop that's rock solid for HD video editing, and what Scott described is "music to my ears"! A year ago I wouldn't have considered an Apple of any flavor. Now that I've had some months under my belt with my iPad, I am of a completely different mindset. Apple has made me a believer! The fact that I'm now a stockholder has something to do with that. But there was also I reason I bought that stock at almost the same time, and that was the first step. I only have a few shares, but in the 6 months I've owned that stock the gain has well exceeded what I invested in the 'Pad! Love or hate the company, its products, Steve Jobs, the closed architecture, whatever - you have to agree that their track record is impressive. Maybe yourbeliefs' answer is hidden in there somewhere. Read on...

My 'Pad was largely an impulse purchase - I wanted mass electronic storage and a great display to enable me to carry many pictures to a reunion, with music - but since then it has turned into a whole lot more! It's like any other fine product. Words don't completely describe them and you have to experience them over time for a true appreciation. As far as the 'Pad goes - it does what it does seamlessly. Once you align with the Apple-mandated limitations and means, you can really accelerate! And after a while a well-designed and executed device like the 'Pad becomes more than just another tool in your electronic manifestation. It begins to dominate, and it might even completely change your means to your end. I'm on that path now, and I'm willing to take another step with an Apple laptop. What's next ??

I know that none of this has anything to do with yourbeliefs' question in technical terms. But maybe the answer is not so black-and-white. I'll bet a lot of Apple owners will agree with me. How much is a staunch PC user willing to gamble on something that can't be defined in strictly engineering / mathmatical terms ?!? I think most of us who have ventured to the "dark side" have been duly enlightened in the intangibles...

FWIW - I own a Harley. We have exactly the same situation in the motorcycle world. Harleys target a particular demographic and are certainly not everything to all riders. But for those who fit the demo. - well - in the HOG world we have a phrase: "If I have to explain it to you...!"...

 

[diogen]

I like Jerry Pournelle's conclusion, as always short and to the point:
"...with Apple products everything is either very simple or utterly impossible.”

Do you value simplicity?
If it does what you want, you can stop asking whether it can be done any simpler...

Diogen.

 

[yourbeliefs]

Disclaimer - I know nothing about Apple computers...yet. So if you're looking for a hard answer to yourbeliefs' quesion, don't waste your time reading this post. However, I might have an interesting perspective...

I'm watching this thread with interest as I am seriously considering a power laptop that's rock solid for HD video editing, and what Scott described is "music to my ears"! A year ago I wouldn't have considered an Apple of any flavor. Now that I've had some months under my belt with my iPad, I am of a completely different mindset. Apple has made me a believer! The fact that I'm now a stockholder has something to do with that. But there was also I reason I bought that stock at almost the same time, and that was the first step. I only have a few shares, but in the 6 months I've owned that stock the gain has well exceeded what I invested in the 'Pad! Love or hate the company, its products, Steve Jobs, the closed architecture, whatever - you have to agree that their track record is impressive. Maybe yourbeliefs' answer is hidden in there somewhere. Read on...

My 'Pad was largely an impulse purchase - I wanted mass electronic storage and a great display to enable me to carry many pictures to a reunion, with music - but since then it has turned into a whole lot more! It's like any other fine product. Words don't completely describe them and you have to experience them over time for a true appreciation. As far as the 'Pad goes - it does what it does seamlessly. Once you align with the Apple-mandated limitations and means, you can really accelerate! And after a while a well-designed and executed device like the 'Pad becomes more than just another tool in your electronic manifestation. It begins to dominate, and it might even completely change your means to your end. I'm on that path now, and I'm willing to take another step with an Apple laptop. What's next ??

I know that none of this has anything to do with yourbeliefs' question in technical terms. But maybe the answer is not so black-and-white. I'll bet a lot of Apple owners will agree with me. How much is a staunch PC user willing to gamble on something that can't be defined is strictly engineering terms ?!? I think most of us who have ventured to the "dark side" have been duly enlightened!

FWIW - I own a Harley. We have exactly the same situation in the motorcycle world. Harleys target a particular demographic and are certainly not everything to all riders. But for those who fit the demo. - well - in the HOG world we have a phrase: "If I have to explain it to you...!"...

I understand what you're getting at, but for me, the whole Apple "culture" and methodology is what has primarily pushed me away from Apple for so many years. I don't like the idea of a closed architecture and the "our way or no way" mentality of doing things, and whenever I see Steve Jobs give presentations I want to choke him until all the d****e in him squirts out his ears and he can stop being such a jerk about things.

That said, the fact that so many people I know have purchased one and recommended it like they're recommending HDTV over SDTV has made me silence my internal complaints and actually look at the computers themselves. I'm willing to look the other way about Apple's business practices if they are delivering a computer that makes up for it, and as of now I am not convinced. That is why, rather than just sit and stew about them, I'm reaching out to other Mac owners who aren't just drones in the Steve Jobs cult and am trying to get some objective reviews of Mac computers.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Because I can do EVERYTHING on it I could on Windows, and in some cases do it BETTER (such as Video editing) and I dont have to worry about Virus's and Malware.

When you install a program its in its own container, you dont have to worry about things messing up the registry... It works SO well!

To love Apples OS you really need to play with it... you will be fustrated at first but soon you will beging to enjoy it... then really like it. It is really powerful.

 

[bhelms]

Yourbeliefs - There has to be a reason there is so much momentum for Apple products and apparently it's more than you'll find in the specifications. As a stockholder, I hope that momentum sustains! I came to the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" point, and frankly I'm glad I did. Like you I was put back for years with the whole culture. All the while the fanboys never had anything negative to say about Apple and tried to hide their obvious elitism. For years that was easy to blow off when Apple had such an insignificant market share.

The point of my missive above: You'll probably never know for sure until you've had a chance to work with one yourself, for more than just a test drive. Buy a refurb to save on the upfront cost, then if you don't like it, well, apparently the resale value is likely to be high...

 

[John Kotches]

Again, you haven't explained WHY it is better. You and everyone say how great it is, but never say WHY. Does the OS run faster than Windows 7, is it more stable, is the pre-installed suite of Leopard software better than that on a typical Windows 7 machine, etc?

1) Rebooting after an app install / uninstall is not required.

2) No spontaneous reboots (aka BSOD).

3) Runs virtualization software and VMs faster than Windows.

4) OS footprint is smaller.

"Better" is subjective, and the GUI OS differences are personal preference. That MAC OS has a form of *nix under the hood is icing on the cake for a command line junkie like me.




Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[John Kotches]

Following up to my own post, what I don't like is the vise grips you're in with an I Phone/i Pad.

That's why my phone is android, I can alter what I don't like with little effort on my part.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[goaliebob99]

I can Third or Forth what Scott is saying about editing HD video. The only time I really go into windows anymore is to edit on Avid when necessary. Using Final Cut Pro there is nothing that I cant do without it. That being said, Avid is much much more powerful than Final Cut, and that isn't really noticeable until you get into the big production houses doing very complex things. I love my Imac, and the quality on it is fantastic. I would consider myself an non cultist! LOL but I do own a lot of apple products.

 

[TheForce]

What Bob said is true for big projects using Avid. We had one of the East coat's largest Avid facilities here in the 90's at a local regional bank It had 15 workstations for editors using a single database of video on line. Very impressive project management. But not everyone needs that! For small independent productions the PC is far superior using Vegas. Final Cut is OK but extremely slow, awkward, and continues to rely on traditional 3 point edit process. The only people who believe Final Cut is the best are those who don't know any better. Vegas is intuitive and allows you to edit clips as you need them, work with a multiple of formats on the timeline and not need to render on the fly to preview effects performed between different format clips. It just works! The only advantage Final Cut has over Vegas is its popularity and if you need to hire a bunch of editors to do simple projects using the Final Cut enclosed system, there are more kids out there with Final Cut training than any other system. However, don't expect efficiency or any real talent because there are only a handful of Final Cut editors who can really fly with the system. If you need real speed, mix of various formats sourced from a variety of tape, DVD, BD, and other codecs, Vegas is your tool. One of the top gun Final Cut editors in the country gave a talk a few years ago at NAB. He edits projects on Vegas to speed and efficiency then does a final rendering to an MOV file for the client who believes he is working in Final Cut. Why? He says otherwise I could never meet their crazy deadlines! He could do it all in Vegas but says he needs to show Final Cut for the Machead clients. On the Mac, if you venture away from quicktime and the system gets hammered to its knees!

 

[DodgerKing]

I am a MS PC guy, always have been, and probably always will be. I do use an iPhone and an iPad and like both. I have no problem with MAC at all. I just cannot personally justify spending 2 to 3 times the amount of money to buy an APPLE computer that is no better than a PC I build myself. I also prefer the UI of windows over Mac OS and the the fact that I have more control over my PC than I would with a MAC. When it comes to home-networking, which is the primary use of my desktop, MAC is still behind. That is just my opinion

 

[DodgerKing]

Before I got my last Mac I was a PC guy... I said Apples were a fruit and not a computer.

I would buy a new laptop once (sometimes twice) a year. Then my bosses son came in one day with a 17" Macbook Pro and he showed me everything he could do with it. I wanted one. At the time I was editing a lot of HD video and on my other high powered Windows machine editing HD was very rough, the machines would often lock up or blue screen while importing or rendering the HD video.

I liked that I could run Windows on it... I liked that I could drop to a console and run unix commands and I was also interested in trying out the video editing on the mac os.

That night I went and purchased a 15 inch Macbook Pro. After 5 years of service I just retired it and up until the last few months the thing was bullet proof. Up until it started having hardware issues it ran as good for me as when I got it on day one!

When I purchased my new one I understood the price was a little higher then a normal laptop but I looked back at before when I would buy up to two new laptops a year and figured the Apple was a bargin and it actually saved me money over the years.

I am now a fan of the Apple OS and its nice opening up emails without worrying about catching a virus. When you run a site like this one I get emails from people I dont know all the time so it gives me a feeling of safety.

There is almost NOTHING I can't do on my Mac.

That is one place where MAC is superior to Windows. But normal everyday use and home-networking, PCs are still above MAC

 

[DodgerKing]

I was firmly in the Windows camp for many years while in the biz. But along came a big sale from a school that insisted that I provide all of the required equipment which in this case, included some Apple gear. While getting all this stuff in and working with it, I started to see why Apple had such a strong following.

The biggest thing with today's Mac line, and pretty much all along, is that Apple designs the whole widget. From the case, and all the other things to go inside it, to the OS to run it with, it is all guaranteed to operate extremely well. There is no such thing as a part made for it that is slightly incompatible. That is a big plus, imo. It is what makes them nearly bullet-proof in operation.

Of course, there is a downside to that. Because Apple tightly controls what goes in there, you are stuck with what they pick. So something may come along that you would like to add but can't. The list is getting shorter these days, but it is still there.

And yes, Apple gear is more expensive. But you can't compare what you can build at home to any brand name and have a valid comparison, imo. The difference in upfront cost between Apple and HP/Dell looks huge oft times. But that is because we all too often look at the consumer grade stuff from those two companies. When you start looking at the better designed and built business class boxes, the difference is much smaller.

And it is made even smaller for those that switch boxes every couple of years or so for some perceived need/want. And that is because used Macs have better resale value than a comparable wintel box of the same vintage.

Or you can build your own PC with even far more superior parts, for much less money, that will knock the socks of any MAC (or store bought PC for that matter)

 

[JAG72]

That is one place where MAC is superior to Windows. But normal everyday use and home-networking, PCs are still above MAC

I have to disagree with this comment. Normal everyday use they are pretty much the same. Even home networking is just as easy with a MAC as with windows.