KA Signal (99) - Going, Going, Gone..

[fluffybear]

this is starting irritate me as I can not figure this out.

this involves my HD Set-up & Minneapolis, MN (MPEG-4) channels

Configuration:
AT-9 Dish
Zinwell WB616 Multi-Switch
HR20-700 HD Receivers


When I installed my AT-9, I was getting some okay levels. 90's on the core satellties and 80's on the KA Band.

Yesterday, I flipped to WCCO and received a message that it was searching for signal. I tried the other MPEG-4 channels and received the same message.

I went in a checked the signal levels. The core satellites have not changed (still getting signal in the 90's) but the KA satellites are showing 0.

I figure if the dish would have moved that I should have seen some variance in the signal levels of the core satellites but I am totally at a loss witht his one.

any ideas?

 

[JamesJ]

bad lnb?

 

[texasbrit]

this is starting irritate me as I can not figure this out.

this involves my HD Set-up & Minneapolis, MN (MPEG-4) channels

Configuration:
AT-9 Dish
Zinwell WB616 Multi-Switch
HR20-700 HD Receivers


When I installed my AT-9, I was getting some okay levels. 90's on the core satellties and 80's on the KA Band.

Yesterday, I flipped to WCCO and received a message that it was searching for signal. I tried the other MPEG-4 channels and received the same message.

I went in a checked the signal levels. The core satellites have not changed (still getting signal in the 90's) but the KA satellites are showing 0.

I figure if the dish would have moved that I should have seen some variance in the signal levels of the core satellites but I am totally at a loss witht his one.

any ideas?

Beacuse the alignment is so critical for the 99/103 satellites it's just about possible to get decent signals on 101/110/119 and still not get 99/103, but a faulty LNB sounds more likely. Although, if you are close to the center of the spotbeam, you should have been seeing one transponder on 99 at 90+, preferably 95+, so if you only had 80 your dish may not have been particularly well aligned in the first place, that would be the first place to look.

 

[fluffybear]

Beacuse the alignment is so critical for the 99/103 satellites it's just about possible to get decent signals on 101/110/119 and still not get 99/103, but a faulty LNB sounds more likely. Although, if you are close to the center of the spotbeam, you should have been seeing one transponder on 99 at 90+, preferably 95+, so if you only had 80 your dish may not have been particularly well aligned in the first place, that would be the first place to look.

I was able to get the KA signal back here a few moments ago (knocked some snow off the dish) but no where near what I use to be getting. my signal is peaking on the KA band at 30.
This is a far cry from what I was getting a few days ago and leads me think that maybe the LNB is going as well. I was thinking alignment at first but I would not have thought that I would have seen some kind of difference in the KU signal as well.

I am no where near the center of the Spotbeam. If anything I am the upper edge of the circle.

 

[charper1]

Other than the LNB; Maybe or possible that a RG6 cable or is connector is bad, wet, moisture seeping in?

 

[JamesJ]

could be a bad RG6, I had a bad section and it was a nightmare trying to figure out what was wrong, replaced a 3 foot section and I was good to go!

 

[fluffybear]

If the rg-6 were bad, would I not be seeing a signal problem with the core satellites as well.

 

[raoul5788]

If the rg-6 were bad, would I not be seeing a signal problem with the core satellites as well.

Maybe not. The ku signals are not as suceptible to failure like the ka ones are.

 

[Teronzhul]

Specifically the Ka signals are carried in 1650-2150 mhz vs the ku 950-1450 so the signals aren't carried in the same spectrum. It could be quite possible to have an issue with the higher frequency signals and not the lower, especially on longer cable runs.

Personally I think there is a greater chance of the dish being misaligned at this point, but cable issues are possible.

 

[fluffybear]

I guess I have a couple of things to look at once I return from my vacation.

I have been thinking of getting a different signal meter (mine is kind of flaky) so this might be the excuse I have been looking for. Any recommendations for one that would work well with the KA Band.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

I was able to get the KA signal back here a few moments ago (knocked some snow off the dish) but no where near what I use to be getting. my signal is peaking on the KA band at 30.
This is a far cry from what I was getting a few days ago and leads me think that maybe the LNB is going as well. I was thinking alignment at first but I would not have thought that I would have seen some kind of difference in the KU signal as well.

I am no where near the center of the Spotbeam. If anything I am the upper edge of the circle.

It could be a lnb issue, I would be shocked if just the Ka side went out - though in rare instances, it could happen - however it sounds like that is not the case - especially given how these are stacked.

1) Don't knock some - knock ALL ice and snow off your dish. Ka is even more suspectable to rain fade and elements then Ku ever was.

2) As noted the Ka birds have a much narrower lobe. You might have multiple things going on from signal attenuation due to snow, you are on the edge of the spotbeam and you made the Ka adjustments when 101W was "out of the box" (or possibly the Ka birds are out of the box as we speak). Also, as you are no doubt aware that the D* procedures never have you actually looking at the Ka Signal Strength - so the 101W is the easiest approximation they can do without actually fine tuning ON the Ka satellites themselves.

3) Bad weather with the storm might have slightly moved your AT9 off the Ka lobes.

Less likely:

4) Depending on your mount, the water, snow, ice could have crept in somewhere it wasn't supposed to and expanded as the water froze moving the alignment of your AT9 slightly.It's no different than how pot holes are formed.

And even less likely:

5) Where is your multiswitch located? I count 8 feeds from your signature - what is being done about the other outputs on the 616?

6) The WB616 has an external PSU unlike the WB608. Are you sure that is working properly and the weather is not shorting that connection?

 

[plnoldrick]

has your temp been fluctuating lately? if it has look at your fittings. water does not have to creep into them to cause trouble. ive been on a lot of service calls where sunk fittings are the reason for loosing channels. when it warms and cools outside the stinger can recess itself just enough to barely make contact and voila you loose channels.

could also be bad internals in the 99/101/103 lnb.

most likely snow and ice or alignment

my list of troubleshooting for you would be
1. make sure all snow and ice is gone from the lnb
2. try realigning it
3. check fittings
4. jump the multiswitch to rule it out
5. replace the lnb

over 90% of bad lnb's sent back to directv are not bad. i dont know if thats propaganda or not but its on an official memo from them that i have.

 

[iwc5893]

I guess I have a couple of things to look at once I return from my vacation.

I have been thinking of getting a different signal meter (mine is kind of flaky) so this might be the excuse I have been looking for. Any recommendations for one that would work well with the KA Band.

It looks like everyone else here has addressed your issues, so I'll take a shot at this question.

I use the Accutrac3 which allows me to see the Ka and Ku band sats, along with voltage and current, and still costs over $200 less than a Birddog.

http://www.satpro.tv/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=29

 

[fluffybear]

It could be a lnb issue, I would be shocked if just the Ka side went out - though in rare instances, it could happen - however it sounds like that is not the case - especially given how these are stacked.

1) Don't knock some - knock ALL ice and snow off your dish. Ka is even more suspectable to rain fade and elements then Ku ever was.

That was done..

2) As noted the Ka birds have a much narrower lobe. You might have multiple things going on from signal attenuation due to snow, you are on the edge of the spotbeam and you made the Ka adjustments when 101W was "out of the box" (or possibly the Ka birds are out of the box as we speak). Also, as you are no doubt aware that the D* procedures never have you actually looking at the Ka Signal Strength - so the 101W is the easiest approximation they can do without actually fine tuning ON the Ka satellites themselves.

Never thought of that! I am actually thinking that it might pay to upgrade my Accutrac 22 and actually get something to help fine tune the KA band. Wife hates taking part in signal tests..

3) Bad weather with the storm might have slightly moved your AT9 off the Ka lobes.

Okay!

Less likely:

4) Depending on your mount, the water, snow, ice could have crept in somewhere it wasn't supposed to and expanded as the water froze moving the alignment of your AT9 slightly.It's no different than how pot holes are formed.

I use to have it mounted on a pole near the house but had some structural issues with the house which forced me to take it to a roof mount. This was kind of my first thought but had the dish moved out of alignment, I sure thought I would expect to see some kind of signal change on the other birds.

And even less likely:

5) Where is your multiswitch located? I count 8 feeds from your signature - what is being done about the other outputs on the 616?

6) The WB616 has an external PSU unlike the WB608. Are you sure that is working properly and the weather is not shorting that connection?

MS is in the basement and fully protected from the elements. 9 feeds now (H20 was activated a few weeks back), the other 7 are unused and capped (factory caps)


I really appreciate all your feedback on this issue. You have given me several things to look at (once I get back from vacation) and hopefully will be able to figure it out.

 

[fluffybear]

It looks like everyone else here has addressed your issues, so I'll take a shot at this question.

I use the Accutrac3 which allows me to see the Ka and Ku band sats, along with voltage and current, and still costs over $200 less than a Birddog.

http://www.satpro.tv/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=29

My only reasoning for looking at a birddog was the ability to find other satellites. My concern though is I am not sure if the birddog fully supports the KA band. The only thing I can find mentioned is it supports KU/KA at 101. Since we are not using KA at 101 just yet, I'm not sure what I will be getting myself into.