New Heat Pump/AC Installation

spongella

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
May 12, 2012
1,625
1,236
Central NJ
Recently we had a Lennox Signature series heat pump/AC installed to replace our very old central AC system. We decided to go with a dual heat pump/AC unit because we needed an alternative heat source for the winter. Here in NJ winters aren't that cold anymore compared to 30 years ago when we first moved here. In case of very cold temps we opted for an electric heat strip but I know that will drive up the electric bill. On those days we can use our pellet stove and backup coal stove.

Does anyone use a heat pump and what are your impressions? Thanks.
 
I was quoted over $8,000 for one this Summer, and told them NO. Staying with my 40 year old boiler, 1 window air conditioner, and a roll away air conditioner for the bedroom. Which of course I don't need those for Winter.

That's just an insane price, IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spongella
Are you talking about an air heat pump or a ground source heat pump? My ex wife got a new oil furnace 1 year and wanted a air source air conditioner the next summer. The heat guy sold her the air conditioner and added heat for about $450.00 more. Contractor intergrated the heat pump with the oil furnace. Heat pump more efficient than oil furnace down to 18 to 20 degree f. Below that temp the heat pump handed over the heating to the oil furnace. They said that the heating bill for the winter was a lot lower than using the oil furnace only the winter before they bought the heat pump. My neighbor has a ground source heat pump with a all electric home and told me his highest electric bill last winter was $345.00 one month. My daughter built that house and her electric bill was around $425 to $475.. in winter months. They wasted a lot of electric. Never turnd anything off and my Grandson would drain an 82 gal. waterheater everytime he showered. This is in northwest Pa.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spongella
Air source heat pumps are great but do lose efficiency as the temp drops for heating mode. Most traditional heat pumps are either split or package systems. The heart of a heat pump is the evaporator and condenser coils, their main job is heat absorption & transfer whether in the cooling mode or heating.

An air source heat pump typically has supplemental electric heat strips that serve 2 purposes. 1 they provide additional heat when needed in really cold temps. 2 they provide a buffer when the condenser goes into defrost. Moisture in the air and cooler temps will cause a condenser(outdoor unit) to frost up, hence the need for defrost. Some condensers use a combination of ways to sense the frost buildup. Temperature and humidity sensors, some also detect the higher current draw from the reduced airflow on the outdoor fan motor. In cooling mode if an evaporator coil(indoor unit) freezes or frosts up it is typically either a dirty coil restricting the airflow or low Freon. On a heat pump low Freon will cool better than it will heat.

Electric rates compared to other energy sources especially relating to a heat pump are usually cheaper. It always a good idea to have a backup source when the temps hit sub zero. A lot of people want to switch their thermostats to electric when the temps drop. The only time that should be done is if the condenser quits working and then the electric heat strips are used as an emergency. It has to get very cold for a heat pump to quit producing heat. The temperature difference between the supply and return is typically 16-22 degrees, even if it's only 2 degrees because of extremely cold temps it's still heating which can seem deceiving. When it gets that cold the backup electric heat strips will come on to supplement as needed.

Dual fuel systems are nice but they're expensive also. By far the best heat pumps are water source heat pumps. Whether they use a closed loop ground system, a well, lake etc. They basically eliminate the condenser so to speak, eliminate the need for any electric backup and run nearly 100% efficiency regardless of the outdoor temps. However they are insanely expensive. Met a guy about 2 yrs ago who had 1, roughly a 6000 sq ft house on new construction, he claimed it cost him 80k.

About a month ago I had my heat pump changed out from a 90's model 10 seer American standard to a 16 seer Trane. The installers did ok but didn't have a clue on adjusting the variable speed indoor fan. I went through the manual and got it adjusted to my satisfaction which I'm more than happy with now. Have it setup so the indoor fan only blows as hard as it needs to, much better than my old system by far with good temperature drops between the supply and return. Also went with a slightly lower kw electric heat because of the higher efficiency unit. For a changeout it was more than I wanted to pay but ended up costing $7150.
 
I miss my water well source heat pump from NC. I suspect the guy that bought my house idiotically went back to gas heat. The water source worked WELL, delivering HOT air in the vents, not like air source heat pumps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spongella
I miss my water well source heat pump from NC. I suspect the guy that bought my house idiotically went back to gas heat. The water source worked WELL, delivering HOT air in the vents, not like air source heat pumps.
I was planing on installing a ground source heatpump and was about to order the pipe to make my own slinky because I wanted to make sure it was buryed deep enough. I researched northwest pa. and they recomended burying the slinky pipe 6 foot deep. In the mean time my daughter built a house across the road from me. They put in the ground source heating system. I noticed that the installers that installed hers only buryed it about 4 feet deep. They had one of those builders that did the mininum. So anyway when I was about ready to buy the pipe I got a call from a company that was drilling gas wells and They came the next day to plot the well. and drilled the well in less than a month. So I have free use of the gas for my home. So with my solar system that supplys me with my electric and the gas well I can live cheaply in my retirement. My well is already about 15 years into production and I got my fingers crossed that it last as long as me.
 
Are you talking about an air heat pump or a ground source heat pump? My ex wife got a new oil furnace 1 year and wanted a air source air conditioner the next summer. The heat guy sold her the air conditioner and added heat for about $450.00 more. Contractor intergrated the heat pump with the oil furnace. Heat pump more efficient than oil furnace down to 18 to 20 degree f. Below that temp the heat pump handed over the heating to the oil furnace. They said that the heating bill for the winter was a lot lower than using the oil furnace only the winter before they bought the heat pump. My neighbor has a ground source heat pump with a all electric home and told me his highest electric bill last winter was $345.00 one month. My daughter built that house and her electric bill was around $425 to $475.. in winter months. They wasted a lot of electric. Never turnd anything off and my Grandson would drain an 82 gal. waterheater everytime he showered. This is in northwest Pa.
Air pump system.
 
I'm compelled to comment.
In the mid 80's in the construction boom if Florida I was employed with a water well drilling company.
I've always been good with mechanics, electrical, electronics, and such. It was a fun job. Long sweaty, dirty days.
There was a bit of water to water and water to air heat pump installation going on for residences.
Most if not all wells I drilled that were contracted to be used with an HVAC system were either combined with the irrigation or domestic supply. All water used was discharged to sprinkler heads. None could be returned to the ground through a return well. That was the law. We did no dedicated loop systems where poly pipe was used as a heat exchanger in a well.
That was when a heat pump/AC system had an 8 seer.
People told me good things. Maintenance aside and the additional cost of the systems and well construction prices.
40 degrees F seems to be the lower magic temperature still where a heat pump loses its efficiency although seer ratings have gone up to the 20's. Still in Florida, where ground water temperature of an 80, 80+ foot well with a water table of 40 feet is around 70 degrees F. A 20 degree delta of 90 ambient air temperature does allow for greater cooling efficiency.
Modern heat pumps have taken care of the freezing issues of past. Variable speed compressors and air handlers give a big rise in efficiency.
What is most important is finding an installer who can properly design and install and who understands the systems they sell.
It used to be a joke that someone could go to county jail and in 6 months come out an AC tech. They could. But a refrigeration tech had pride and knowledge and kept up with technology. Too many people could install an HVAC system. Few could service them after the sale and many were poorly designed, if designed at all.
I'm a big fan of mini split systems. I live in N. Pa. and mini split systems coupled with water to air and water to water heat exchangers are getting popular. The guys here are taking temperatures at soil depth instead of just digging trenches for loops of poly pipe at 4-5 feet depth.
Rural electric is not a good place for a heat pump with kilowatt charges 50-80% above the main power plant distribution charges of the towns near by. Especially where a heat strip is needed. But people out here are doing it.
Solar is getting big. Net metering is catching on. The REC has to buy your excess power but they are allowed to limit how much they can buy back. They don't want you to be a generation plant. Usually not an issue.
I use propane and wood for heat in the winter. It suits me fine for now. I have around 3.5kw solar, 7kw full sun solar. The ROI will be a few years and I do net meter it. My electric bill didn't drop as much as I expected and to have just a meter on a pole for REC costs me $20 a month if I use no juice.
That's my rant.
 
My power suplyer charges me close to 9.00 per month billing charge. They never pay me any money just credit my account with kilowatts used and produced. On the may bill if I have more Kilowatts produced than used they credit my account in dollars and start out a new account year from zero production for another year. The money they credited my account pays for my monthly account billing charge till I drain that account . By law the power company has to sell a certain percent of renewable energy. The electric producer actually saves money by receiving there renewable energy from home producers like me. They do not have any investment in solar generator plants because they can get credit toward thier alternitive percent they have to make available. Plus they can charge more to customers who want to buy green energy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spongella

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)