No HD Nationals with Welcome Pack?
- Thread starter Mike
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I always had an issue on the conversion. The Hd channels on Sd, different things would happen depending on the channel. Most common, bars all the way around the TV shrinking the picture more. I no longer have any SD tvs, but that was my experience back then.
I always see this theme when there is a discussion about dropping sd duplicate channels. All hd receivers have sd analog outputs. Not much effort to plug composite out from one to a sdtv.
When I had my 722K, the composite output from TV1 was connected to a DVD recorder. No problems with full widescreen sizing with the hd channels. TV2 did have the problem you mentioned though. I currently have a Pace HD stb from Comcast connected to my bedroom tv via HDMI, but I also have it connected to an old Tivo Series 2 via composite. Once again no problems with screen sizing. STB's can be made and are out there that don't have "postage stamp" problems.
You only have coax in? How old is that set? The geometry and color accuracy haven't gone south yet?
EDIT: My bad, I see you said some and not you. Those sets are probably over 20 years old and should be replaced anyway. People can find good used sets on craigslist for $20
Not me, I'm talking about other customers. They are still out there. And think their picture is just fine. My tvs are all HD, and me personally wouldn't mind an all HD lineup, but I do still consider them. The elderly, the poor, the people that just have one TV and don't watch much TV. That is income dish gets, easily, and to switch would be to abandon a large portion of them. I have faith in the "bean counters" that do all the math for dish. They make significantly more money then I, and the majority of us, for a good reason.
Chad is right. There is no rational business case analysis that would lead Dish to remove SD channels.
Some might argue that they should provide HD channels for the welcome pack, but I'm sure that they've run the numbers and know that the lack of HD channels in this pack increases their profit by driving those who care about HD to purchase more expensive subscriptions. That's how businesses operate (at least successful businesses).
Some might argue that they should provide HD channels for the welcome pack, but I'm sure that they've run the numbers and know that the lack of HD channels in this pack increases their profit by driving those who care about HD to purchase more expensive subscriptions. That's how businesses operate (at least successful businesses).
I have been thinking the same thing for a while now. HD is the new SD. It would help save bandwidth as they would not have to put them on the satellite twice. The receivers can downconvert to SD if need be. I guess their contracdts prevent them from doing HD only feed of the channels available in HD? Plus they still have SD receivers out there. When they finally swap out the rest of the SD receivers then I can see them making HD standard. Don't forget, they want that $10 HD fee.
I would say that the primary reason why SD feeds have not been removed, is due to the number of SD-only receivers still in use on western arc, and old Dish 500 setups. I don't think there were any MPEG-4 SD-only receivers, so in theory, you could cut the SD channels from eastern arc, but it's a smaller gain compared to cutting them from WA, and it would make the two arcs inconsistent with each other.
As far as viewing HD channels on an SD set - I have no problem with this on my 922. My main TV is a fairly nice 42"1080p in the living room, and I run a coax to the bedroom, where I have a 32" JVC CRT that was a top of the line SD set in 2002. The 922 allows me to center-cut the HD program and make full use of the screen - or I can use the 16:9 squeeze mode on the JVC, which actually causes the scan lines to be drawn closer together. On this SD TV, I can see virtually zero compression artifacts when watching HD programming.
Because both of the down conversion options work so well, I deleted all of the SD channels from my favorites list. Now that I have had to put some back, I am watching some of the old MPEG-2 streams again. They are definitely worse than down converted HD. The compression artifacts appear more like sharp blocks on the SD, and the whole image just looks soft and generally poor on the HD. Houston HD locals are on both arcs, I guess - since it's pretty much in the middle of the country, and I self-installed, so I chose WA since the satellite dish was on sale at the time.
As far as viewing HD channels on an SD set - I have no problem with this on my 922. My main TV is a fairly nice 42"1080p in the living room, and I run a coax to the bedroom, where I have a 32" JVC CRT that was a top of the line SD set in 2002. The 922 allows me to center-cut the HD program and make full use of the screen - or I can use the 16:9 squeeze mode on the JVC, which actually causes the scan lines to be drawn closer together. On this SD TV, I can see virtually zero compression artifacts when watching HD programming.
Because both of the down conversion options work so well, I deleted all of the SD channels from my favorites list. Now that I have had to put some back, I am watching some of the old MPEG-2 streams again. They are definitely worse than down converted HD. The compression artifacts appear more like sharp blocks on the SD, and the whole image just looks soft and generally poor on the HD. Houston HD locals are on both arcs, I guess - since it's pretty much in the middle of the country, and I self-installed, so I chose WA since the satellite dish was on sale at the time.
Now think about the grandma or grandpa, who barely knows to push Sat on the remote, or calls because they cannot figure out how to put their TV on channel 60, or 73. Those steps you mentioned, do they seem viable for that customer? That was a very common call when I worked there, and I'm sure it still is.
I don't think I mentioned a lot of steps? Yes, I tend to switch between center cut and anamorphic using the format button, but you could probably just set up a 211 to center cut everything, and grandma would be none the wiser. She might even appreciate that the "picture fills up the whole screen" - and it takes care of the windowboxing problem on letterboxed content.
I never said that grandma wouldn't need a tech to come out and perform her replacement. Almost assuredly, they (the elderly or otherwise technologically unskilled) would need this type of service. As far as fitting the HD picture to the SD screen, the phone rep needs only to instruct the customer to press the STAR button (also known as the format button), until the picture appears satisfactory to the customer. The keypad layout on a Dish remote is the same as a touch tone phone, and the STAR ( * ) button is the format button.
I get where you are going with that, but keep in mind these are the same reps that cannot even verify a customer subscribes to hd, when a customer calls in talking about missing their hd channels. The same reason we all love DIRT so much.
Maybe there could be a software update for the 211 that could add a new mode called "SD mode". This mode could disable the format button and force everything to center cut, or letterbox for certain channels that are already letterbox on SD. Maybe some other options could be hidden in this mode as well. The goal would be to make it more similar to say, a 301 that the customer may have used previously. The only difference would be that the underlying channel streams are now down-converted HD MPEG-4 instead of letterbox, old style SD MPEG-2.
The prem. techs would of course need to be instructed to enable this new mode for SD-only customers who are being upgraded.
Ultimately, you have to balance these types of "easing measures" while considering the inevitable requirement for additional bandwidth on the system and the costs of both these additional easing measures vs losses if customers leave vs general expenditures of new receivers, etc, etc.
Some people would still think black and white was acceptable. Eventually there has to be a point that some provider says, that's it, if a network offers a HD feed, the SD one goes. All equipment gets replaced and bandwidth is recovered. With the rationale that "there are still customers that want SD, and some that still have a thus and such SD only set" Great Britain would have kept their 405 line B&W only VHF system that was shut down in 1985, because some people would find it certainly acceptable. We would have never converted to digital TV. One provider some time has to be the first to convert, whether granny and grandpa like it or not.
This is a weekly, almost daily phone call I get from customers. It seems almost half of my customers are over the age of 60 and the majority are not tech savvy. Heck, even a lot of the under 60 customers are not tech savvy. The main reason my customers come to me is because they want the personal service because they know they will need help. The people who know their stuff always sign up online or call Dish and don't worry about service because they most likely won't need it.
