Onkyo DV-HD805, Grand opeining....Grand closing

[JoeSp]

How many 3/4 billion dollar loss quarters can Sony have on the PS3?

They are like Toshiba -- they make so much money in their other businesses that the loss they have taken on the PS3 is balanced out. The changes they have made in the video gaming side of the business shows that they do not want to continue to lose money and the fact that they are hinting at making money for their fiscal year ending in March 08 says that they are not taking the bath everyone says they are. But, and this is a big but -- if the games start coming out and Sony can sell some systems with the game then they will be okay. Sony is probably looking at their fiscal year 2009 as making money on the PS3. By then the PS3 as a gaming machine should be getting its legs -- and that should definately help next year. Sony is making money on the games, the BD movies and hopefully -- eventually the systems. Most of the time a new videogame system starts making money in the third year. Sony is probably doing everything they can to see that happen for their PS3.

My earlier point about Toshiba is that if only the Chinese can come in and make money on the hardware side of the format -- how can you induce other CE manufacturers to support your format? If there is no money to be made -- and you keep dropping prices below costs to sell -- how long will you continue the good fight?

 

[vurbano]

My earlier point about Toshiba is that if only the Chinese can come in and make money on the hardware side of the format -- how can you induce other CE manufacturers to support your format? If there is no money to be made -- and you keep dropping prices below costs to sell -- how long will you continue the good fight?

I do not see why Toshiba needs any other manufacturers. They have all of the models imaginable already at various price points and features. Does apple need Dell to sell the same product?

 

[harshness]

What's their plan when BD's get to $199?

If it doesn't happen before the end of the year, does it really matter what price point BD players get down to?

 

[harshness]

Does apple need Dell to sell the same product?

Apparently you don't remember when HP was selling iPods.

 

[meStevo]

If it doesn't happen before the end of the year, does it really matter what price point BD players get down to?

I believe BD group was quoted in something saying that BD players will not drop below $399 this holiday. I am sure sales and limited discoutns will drop it below this, but ya, if anything was happening this holiday it would have been announced/happened by now.

 

[vurbano]

Apparently you don't remember when HP was selling iPods.

Correct. I don't. How's that going for them?

 

[Peter Parker]

I am not sure that the iPod situation is directly comparable. There may not be a true iPod clone out there and no is currently rebadging it but other MP3 players can play most of the software and the consumer can readily convert music from one format to another. Apple has clearly carved a niche for itself based on quality and marketing but there are lots of competitors.

Still it is at least possible that a format could win this war with a single manufacturer but it is a handicap

 

[vurbano]

I am not sure that the iPod situation is directly comparable. There may not be a true iPod clone out there and no is currently rebadging it but other MP3 players can play most of the software and the consumer can readily convert music from one format to another. Apple has clearly carved a niche for itself based on quality and marketing but there are lots of competitors.

Still it is at least possible that a format could win this war with a single manufacturer but it is a handicap

Controlling virtually the entire HD DVD player market is a handicap? That is untrue in any market. How about you go tell the middle east countries that they are at a competitive disadvantage because they have all the oil and they set the price. Just like Apple with all of their products and Toshiba with HD DVD.

 

[allargon]

Controlling virtually the entire HD DVD player market is a handicap? That is untrue in any market. How about you go tell the middle east countries that they are at a competitive disadvantage because they have all the oil and they set the price. Just like Apple with all of their products and Toshiba with HD DVD.

The Middle East doesn't have all the oil. BTW, did anyone see the e-mail on AVS from Onkyo UK saying that these weren't pulled, they're just SOLD OUT in Europe. Someone didn't make enough!

Too bad Sony can't say that with that P.O.S. $500 standalone.

 

[Peter Parker]

Controlling virtually the entire HD DVD player market is a handicap? That is untrue in any market. How about you go tell the middle east countries that they are at a competitive disadvantage because they have all the oil and they set the price. Just like Apple with all of their products and Toshiba with HD DVD.

I never said anything about a handicap stemming from being the sole manufacturer of a product. . I merely said that the MP 3 player market is not like the High Def DVD market and told you why i think that. The handicap I was referring to is a situation where there are competing technologies and one has several manufacturers and the other does not. That sis the situation with the high Definition DVD market but it really is not the situation with Ipods. They have competitors-although some audio and video formats are proprietary to one camp or another.

BTW I do not think that having only one manuufacturer of HD DVD players will necessasarily doom HD DVD. It is entirely possible that they will overcome this particular disadvantage.

 

[Peter Parker]

The Middle East doesn't have all the oil. BTW, did anyone see the e-mail on AVS from Onkyo UK saying that these weren't pulled, they're just SOLD OUT in Europe. Someone didn't make enough!

Too bad Sony can't say that with that P.O.S. $500 standalone.

Well if the original poster is right not many were produced (he says only 11 were available in Italy) and that production has ceased. the 11 units were just one country not the continent but it makes you wonder what the whole production run was and why production has ceased.

But again this is a comment on how hard it is to sell a rebadged product at a significant premium over the OEM price.

Does anyone know how many were made/sold? That might be tell us more than just the data points that 11 were sold in Italy and that they sold out the entire production run.

Also do we know if Onkyo has any plans to either start selling these again or sell some other unit---and if so is that HD/BD or a hybrid?

 

[harshness]

Correct. I don't. How's that going for them?

Not so well for HP, but it certainly helped legitimize the iPod at a time when Apple wasn't doing so well.

 

[JoeSp]

Controlling virtually the entire HD DVD player market is a handicap? That is untrue in any market. How about you go tell the middle east countries that they are at a competitive disadvantage because they have all the oil and they set the price. Just like Apple with all of their products and Toshiba with HD DVD.

As a matter of fact, in the retail of hardware it is. Not everyone wants to buy Toshiba just like not everyone wants to buy Sony. The differance is that you do not have to buy Sony to get a BD player, you can buy Samsung, Pioneer, Denon, Panasonic, Lg, Sharp, Mitsubishi, heck, just about everybody else on the planet is supporting BD.

Lets look at this a differant way, do you really believe that Toshiba has the manufacturing muscle of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Lg and Pioneer combined? Your hope is a player from China (and we all know the quality you get when the product is designed and manufactured soley in China). Besides, there will be a cheap BD player from China by the 1st qrt of 08. No product from China has ever swayed any market yet.

In the last war (VHS/BETA) it was Sony against everybody else. Sony had the better product and lost. This time it is Toshiba that is alone against everybody else -- and history does repeat itself. If sales numbers are to be believed -- HD-DVD is taking a beat down just about everywhere except in North America. If the lastest numbers are to be believed -- the beatdown here in North America might just be starting.

 

[IcEWoLF]

Onkyo, anyone ever heard of this company before?

 

[JNEUBY]

Onkyo has been around for years. Good products. My opinion on this whole matter is Onkyo was possibly testing the waters here. The decision to manufacture and release the players may have changed as the recent statistics between Blu-ray and HD are starting to spread. The Japanese have been manufacturing quality electronics for a long time. For the Chinese trying to crack into in the market with an in-expensive player and have an immediate success is too hard to predict up front. I suspect quality issues and working the bugs out will be fun for them and all who buy the first generation. I only say this because I bought the first generation Toshiba DVD player and boy was it loaded with bugs. It took them a couple of tries to get it right. I'm surprised about Warner and some past posts here, I remember Warner was the first company to jump on DVD's while the other guys were still holding out with Laser Disc. So for them to be conservative and watch both camps seems a bit surprising.

 

[vurbano]

The fact of the matter is as I said before. Toshiba is making it better and cheaper than anyone else can. They even have a wide variety of models. BD on the other hand is SO overpriced, of course lots of manufacturers want to get in on the consumer ripoff. SO what has happened? Everyone buys a PS3 instead, at least it serves a dual purpose. Take the PS3 numbers out of the equation and what do you have? Nothing

 

[Peter Parker]

You aren't seriously saying yu have not heard of Onkyo are you?

 

[Peter Parker]

The fact of the matter is as I said before. Toshiba is making it better and cheaper than anyone else can.

Interesting claim. I am not so naive as to think that we would ever agree on the "better" part but is it true that Toshiba is making them less expensively? Is it that or are they selling them cheaper in an attempt to gain market share? not that doing that would be a bad business decision but if it really is possible to MAKE these things for less that would be a REAL advantage instead of the usual fanboy spin that is so common here.

 

[IcEWoLF]

The fact of the matter is as I said before. Toshiba is making it better and cheaper than anyone else can. They even have a wide variety of models. BD on the other hand is SO overpriced, of course lots of manufacturers want to get in on the consumer ripoff. SO what has happened? Everyone buys a PS3 instead, at least it serves a dual purpose. Take the PS3 numbers out of the equation and what do you have? Nothing

Looks like everyone is QQ'ing about PS3's BR-player.

 

[vurbano]

You aren't seriously saying yu have not heard of Onkyo are you?

everyone has. Whats your point?