OTA reception without line of site - please help

[eugenek]

I live on a 14th floor of a 23-story apartment building. The building is located in Brooklyn, NY. My balcony (where Voom dish is installed) is facing East. Most of the local stations that I want to receive are transmitted from the Empire State Building in Manhattan, which is approx. 11 miles away from my building. The ONLY THING between Empire state building and my balcony is my own building. Antennaweb states that I can receive 9 "red" , 3 "blue" and 2 "violet" stations at the street level

When Voom was initially installed, the installed refused to even mount the Stealth antenna, saying that its useless. My building also has a huge rooftop antenna, which has a connector in each apartment. However, when I connect Voom received to it, I get no local channels.

I tried calling Voom, but the CSR kept telling me that I will not be able to get anything with any antenna on my balcony, since I cannot mount an antenna in a location that has a direct line of site to the transmitter (i.e. the roof of the building). Meanwhile, I read reports on this forum that people who live 50-60 miles away from the transmitter are receiving local stations with more powerful antennas. After calling several times, VOOM CSR finally agreed to send an installer out "to take a look and see what can be done". However, given the "high" level of expertise that Installs, inc. employees typically have, I know for a fact that the guy will come in, say that I wont be able to get any local channels and leave.

I tried to live without local channels for as long as I could, but it turns out to be impossible, so I will have to switch to cable of DTV if Voom does not cooperate.

Can someone comment on this and let me me know whether Voom is giving me crap or am I really unable to receive any local channels with any antenna?

Thanks in advance

Eugene

 

[Sean Mota]

Eugene,

this "OTA" reception most of the time is by trial and error. I live in NYC too but not in the same situation as you. Here is some stuff that you may want to try:

1 - Inside Antenna (either silver sensor (UHF ONLY) or RCA (has one that is both VHF/UHF [I think]).

2 - Outside Antenna: you can use the stealth and see if it works.

You may want to try an omnidirectional antenna.

The trick is to get to play with these antennas and get them from a place that has a return policy without questions ask. You can try Radio Shack or Best Buy (inside antenna).

To your other point. If your condo has already an antenna and they give you an inside connection there maybe a few factors why it does not work.

(a) First try to find out what type of antenna your building is providing. Is it an amplified or not?

(b) Which direction is this antenna pointing to?

(c) Are you sure that the cable connection that your building is providing is good? Can you test with a TV tuner to see if you can get analog channels from it?

All the NYC locals are already mapped into your zip code. So do some tests and get some information and report back and will continue to give you some advice.

 

[Sean Mota]

By the way, Welcome to the forum...

 

[dankgus]

Make sure you plug the OTA antenna into the correct port, there is a RF connector on the back of the Voom box that is NOT for an OTA antenna, its for an RF remote control antenna. And as another poster said, make sure that the antenna hookup in your apartment is actually live by testing with an analog NTSC tuner. Also, your voom box should be able to do a signal strength check and tell you if you get SOME signal.

--Dan

 

[eugenek]

Sean,

I went to Radio Shack today and asked for the most powerful indoor HDTV-capable antenna. They pointed me to Radio Shack part number 15-1838. It's a an adjustable VHF/UHF antenna with a 15DB signal amplifier. I connected the antenna to the STB and started doing RF scans. I wrote down a signal level for each setting (from 2 to 69) and then matched these numbers to actual TV stations using a table found on http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/issues/digitaltv/DTVStations.asp

Here is what I have determined :

RF# RSH BLDG Station

12 63 78 WPIX
24 51 0 PBS
28 42 0 WNBC
44 47 0 WNYW
45 57 0 WABC
56 53 0 WCBS

NOTE: RSH indicates signal strength with a Radio Shack antenna and BLDG with a building antenna

Based on a sticky manual for OTA signal strength in another forum here, I realized that I will never get anywhere close to watching locals with my current signal strength. Now as far as other issues you brought up:

1. Seeing if Stealth antenna works - I no longer have it (thrown away accidentally), but I remember connecting it earlier and not seeing a single local channel.
2. I cannot find out what type of antenna is on top of the building. The management does not let anyone to enter the roof after 9/11 and they have no info as to what type of antenna it is. I am guessing the antenna is not amplified (it must be pretty old).
3. I cannot vouch for quality of the cable that building is providing, but I am able to get ALL local analog channels on it. And the reception quality is great.

Now based on my findings I have more questions:

1. Are there any other indoor antennas that can provide me with better signal quality (looks like I need approx 30%-50% amplification on top of what Radio Shack antenna provides).
2. Would installing a large outdoor directional antenna on my balcony help me get locals (even though my building would be between the antenna and transmitter)?
3. Are there any powerful signal amplifiers that I can connect to the Radio Shack (or other indoor antenna) in order to bring signal strength to 85+?
4. Absolutely ALL of my local channels are showing up in PG when I connect the Radio Shack antenna. How do they end up in there since I do not get an acceptable signal on it?

Regards,

Eugene

 

[Sean Mota]

Eugene,

1-The two best indoor antenna are the silver sensor (only UHF channels) and RCA has another one that maybe UHF/VHF. You may find both of these at Best Buy (you can always return them. No question ask).

2- It is worth a shot. If not directional maybe omnidirectional and see what happens.

3- You can always get a pre-amp to boost the signal strength for eithe indoor or outdoor antenna. The best ones are the channelmaster. I do not know if you can get them locally but www.starkelectronics.com sells them online.

4-Your locals are in the PG because it is a static mapping that it is waiting for the signal to get in. Actually this is better than using the scanning function because you don't need to worry about the station passing the correct PSIP information in their data stream.

There two brands for outdoor antenna that most recommend wineguard and channelmaster. Try to see if you can get them locally. Also RS has some good outdoor antennas as well.

I know this is not pure science. It is a trial/error. I had to go through three different antennas for my location until I found the correct one that worked for my place.

Let us know what happens.

 

[fayrich]

Trying to figure out your exact situation---you say that your own building is the only thing between your balcony and the transmitting towers. Are you on the top floor or lower down(assuming you are in a taller building). Maybe the signal just doesn't penetrate your building very well. In that case, perhaps, just perhaps, an antenna such as the Winegard Square Shooter makes claims to do a good job of picking up reflected signals. If you could pick up one of those somewhere to try, and be able to return if it doesn't work--might be worth your while. Cannot vouch for this antenna, but have seen many posts from succesful users.

 

[eugenek]

OK....I went to Best Buy and bought 2 indoor antennas - one Terk HDTVi antenna (produced absolutely NO signal on ANY channels) and a Jensen powered UHF/VHF antenna, which claims to have "dual stage amplifiers" and "45DB minimum gain range" in both UHF and VHF. Sounds like a dream piece of equipment. NOT.

I connected the antenna to the Voom box and started scanning. This time I was able to pick WCBS without a problem. I am also able to get signal on Fox for about 20 seconds every minute. For some reason the signal strength fluctuates between 78 and 88 and it causes dropouts. And finally, I am able to get a very strong signal on 2 WLIW channels (whatever that is). There is also a strange behavior when I would get a stable signal of 87 on a particular channel, then change the channel, then go back to the original channel and and get a stable signal of 75.

All in all I am getting a little bit tired of spending hours on the Internet looking at different antenna types, buying and returning antennas, etc. Voom staff is really who should be doing it for me.

I was wondering if anybody had hands-on experience with a preamp (such as ChannelMaster Titan 2). Since purchasing and then returning it involves more effort and money, I am trying to understand whether the preamp will amplify the signal on some channels enough for the Voom box to be happy with it. For example, with my current wonderful antenna I am getting the following signal strength:
77 on ABC
92 on CBS
78 on Fox,
60 on NBC
63 on WB

I would be very grateful if someone could tell me how much amplification does ChannelMaster preamp (or a similar device) really provide. I would also be very happy if someone could tell me if I getting a larger outdoor antenna would give me that additional 20% of the signal strength that I am missing.

Eugene

 

[Sean Mota]

A lot of people are not very successful with the Terk. So with the internal Jensen you are getting those numbers? Is that correct? I do not know if the preamp will do any good with an already amplified antenna. Maybe somebody with more experience can chime in. Regarding the outside antenna, I would follow FAYRICH suggestion and see what that gets you.

 

[Bear]

I use a Channel Master 4-bay bowtie antenna with a Channel Master 7778 pre-amp, and I get good reception here in Houston. Where I have the antenna mounted, I go through my roof (attic mount), a tall oak tree and a neighboring building for LOS to the antenna farm. I got both from solidsignal.com. I would recommend the 7777 for a couple of bucks less and a couple of more dB, though.

The 4-bay bowtie is about three feet tall and two feet wide, so you can hang it on a wall, or put it out on the balcony to minimize its footprint. It is not anywhere near the footprint of the SS, but it WAS ~$30 shipped from SolidSignal.

HTH.