Pioneer steps up with 1.3a compatiblity!

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JoeSp said:
Those interested in a new 1.3 HDMI recievers might just want to read this:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/press/release/detail/0,,2076_310069589_441424387,00.html

THX and Farouda processing!! If these new avrs also support PCM over the HDMI then I think I have found my new AVR replacement!
Click to expand...

I don't know why they wouldn't support PCM. It is an ancient technology. Pretty standard these days.

The Yamaha doesn't sport HDMI 1.3 or advanced audio codecs. Haven't heard a peep from them. The new onkyos do and have a built in repeater for longer runs. There is always the Denons also.
 
The lower priced Denon's do not do video processing -- just pass thru and they do not decode TDHD or DTS-HD MA. They will play what is decoded by the player. If the Pioneer which is THX-2 certified does do PCM then I will be getting one of the higher models.

The VSX-92THX has the Farouda processing, decodes both TrueDolbyHD and DTS-HD MA along with THX-2 certification and at $1300 is well within my wheelhouse. I just have to wait till August. I like Pioneer Elite equipment and this particular product is just what I am looking for.

It has not been said by Denon if the mid-range products will do video processing but they should be doing HD audio decoding in the box. This Summer is going to be very exciting for those of us who are looking to upgrade our current avrs!!

I do not know much about Onkyo and maybe someone can chime in here with specs on their new receivers.
 
JoeSp said:
The lower priced Denon's do not do video processing -- just pass thru and they do not decode TDHD or DTS-HD MA. They will play what is decoded by the player. If the Pioneer which is THX-2 certified does do PCM then I will be getting one of the higher models.

It has not been said by Denon if the mid-range products will do video processing but they should be doing HD audio decoding in the box. This Summer is going to be very exciting for those of us who are looking to upgrade our current avrs!!

I do not know much about Onkyo and maybe someone can chime in here with specs on their new receivers.
Click to expand...

The 3808 should do DOlbyTrueHD and DTSMaster. The 1508 and 1708 will not though. Noone really knows what it will do. Denon is always absolutely mum until they post the specs on their website. I would actually prefer the receiver not to do video processing. Faroudja is good but not great. Onkyo is Ok. For an integrated receiver I'd rather have Denon or Yamaha.

S~
 
If not Faroudja then who for your video processing? Whether in the player or the reciever what differance does that make? If it can do bit-for-bit passage of 1080p 24 hz video how can that be a bad thing? While I currently have a Denon and like it I really would like a nice HDMI receiver and being THX certified cannot be a bad thing. With Denon you only get THX certification on their top model.

On another note, Denon has not reported that their mid-range receivers will decode DTHD or DTS-HD MA. Only that they will be able to play back the decoded signal from the hd player. It will be interesting to see what those receivers will do as they are due in July.
 
I didn't say it was bad. It is one of the most commonly used processors in AV equipment, especially integrated receivers. There just hasn't been a lot added in the past 4 years. SOmeone is switching to the HQV processors, can't remeber who right off hand. FOund it. Onkyo is it. You don't want your receiver doing all of the work. It needs to be focused on where it matters, audio. Most of the good receivers will pass 1080p 24hz from the source provided you have a monitor that accepts it. The Denon 2807/3806/4806 pass it just fine. If you really want video upconverting, get a video processor. They will do a whole lot more than the receiver will ever be able to do. Otherwise let the player or TV do it.

Like I said. Denon doesn't report anything. They did report at CES that their midline and upperend models would decode HD Audio. The thing with THX certification is it costs a lot of money to certify a product line. Yamaha at one time didn't even bother to have their recievers certified. Just add $$$$ to the price tag. You can get a really nice receiver for what you want with just as good of quality without the THX stamp. Calibrate it correctly and you won't notice the difference.

S~
 
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JoeSp said:
If not Faroudja then who for your video processing?
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Faroudja was synonymous with high-end 3 years ago.
Reon-VX and Gennum VXP are today's high end. Faroudja in a $1500 AVR is not something to get excited about.
JoeSp said:
Denon has not reported that their mid-range receivers will decode DTHD or DTS-HD MA.
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There is a good chance that undecoded lossless audio won't be allowed to be passed for decoding outside the player (or so I read somewhere).

It's probably time to get used to the idea that the player should do the decoding and invest in good power amps instead.

Diogen.
 
There is a good chance that undecoded lossless audio won't be allowed to be passed for decoding outside the player (or so I read somewhere).

Then explain why manufacturer's are coming out with AVRs that decode these codecs? The same manufacturers that also make the players. Do they know something we don't? Why stick useless technology into an AVR that is not going to be used? Perhaps we do not know the whole story yet on the new codecs. Hasn't the idea behind the use of an AVR is to let the player do the video processing and the AVR do the audio processing? You really think a player will give you the control over the audio codec as well as an AVR?

The idea of the players not being able to pass the native signals to the AVR comes from the possiblity of the PS3 not being able to do that (maybe). No article has yet stated that any of the newer players with HDMI 1.3 would not be able to pass the native signals to the AVR.

As a matter of fact no article has stated without a doubt (facts that prove otherwise) that the PS3 cannot pass native signals. When these new AVRs come out we all might be pleasantly surprised. And yes, we could all be disappointed but that is what happens when you dabble with new technology as an early adopter.
 
What are the short comings of a OnkyoTX-SR 805 and 605

Teachsac and I live in the same town but I'm on the poorer side of the tracks as the song goes. Just kidding. :eureka Anyway, I'm cheap.

I'm looking at a budget of $700 -$900 to replace my old Pioneer 1014 which just started going bananas turning on and off at will etc. So rather than fix this $300 AV I thought I'd look for something now.

Since I'm cheap, I'm looking for an AV that will provide all the available and near future audio features of HDDVD ( I have the first one out) and my PS3 BU playback. It looks like both of these will do that and nothing now available from Pioneer or Yamaha will.

What are the short comings of the Onkyo to a Demon or top model Pioneer to make them worth spending $1M to $2M on them.

I have a bookshelf Klipsch Cinema 8 System with 2 extra bookshelf speakers making it a 7.1 setup. :hungry:
 
swade said:
Teachsac and I live in the same town but I'm on the poorer side of the tracks as the song goes. Just kidding. :eureka Anyway, I'm cheap.

I'm looking at a budget of $700 -$900 to replace my old Pioneer 1014 which just started going bananas turning on and off at will etc. So rather than fix this $300 AV I thought I'd look for something now.

Since I'm cheap, I'm looking for an AV that will provide all the available and near future audio features of HDDVD ( I have the first one out) and my PS3 BU playback. It looks like both of these will do that and nothing now available from Pioneer or Yamaha will.

What are the short comings of the Onkyo to a Demon or top model Pioneer to make them worth spending $1M to $2M on them.

I have a bookshelf Klipsch Cinema 8 System with 2 extra bookshelf speakers making it a 7.1 setup. :hungry:
Click to expand...

Hola Bud:)

For $599 the Onkyo TX-SR605 looks like a pretty decent buy and future proof. HAven't heard one, though. At one point in time decades ago, Onkyo used to produce some top of the line components. Fry's should have them when they do come out.

S~
 
JoeSp said:
Then explain why manufacturer's are coming out with AVRs that decode these codecs?
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One scenario: purists audiophiles don't give a rats ass about all the "additional" features on the disks and want to watch just the movie.
JoeSp said:
You really think a player will give you the control over the audio codec as well as an AVR?
Click to expand...
Are you convinced it won't?

JoeSp said:
The idea of the players not being able to pass the native signals to the AVR comes from the possiblity of the PS3 not being able to do that (maybe)..
Click to expand...
Huh? The "decoding and mixing in the player" issue is format agnostic - it applies to both BD and HD.
JoeSp said:
As a matter of fact no article has stated without a doubt (facts that prove otherwise) that the PS3 cannot pass native signals..
Click to expand...
It might. But then you would have to decode, mix and encode again to pass over HDMI digitally.
You can't mix unless decoded. You can't send over HDMI unless encoded.
Did you look at the DTS site?
JoeSp said:
When these new AVRs come out we all might be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...
Surprised by what? What isn't sent to the AVR can't be decoded by it - can we agree on that?

Diogen
 
WMA-Pro (multichannel WMA) is not mandatory is either of the hidef formats.
It is optional for a secondary video stream only (PiP).

What isn't mandatory rarely gets implemented in mainstream products.

The Elite series of the Pioneer AVRs can decode WMA-Pro (received over SPDIF) for years, since the first WMV-HD disks.

When playing HD DVD on XBox360 using its add-on, the console can encode the soundtrack into WMA-Pro (using the most recent update).
In case the original track is lossless, this could be the best way of digitally transferring the sound to your AVR.

Purists would still insist on avoiding D-A-D transcoding.

Diogen.
 
I've been getting an edumacation in HDMI receivers the past couple of weeks, since I bought a PS3 and need to upgrade to a receiver with HDMI audio so I can enjoy those PCM tracks on Blu-ray.

One problem is my HDTV only has DVI for digital input. The set is less than 3 years old, I'm really happy with it and not upgrading for a while. The DVI connection is HDCP compliant, my HD DVD & PS3 are both satisfied with it.

My first try was a Sony STR-DG710, a new line of receivers with 710,810 & 910 models. Not HDMI 1.3, but the specs say all 3 models support 1080p video & multi-channel HDMI audio. I picked up a 710 from Best Buy on sale for $255. I couldn't get HDMI audio to work at all, and then I notice a page in the manual say says "We do not recommend the use of an HDMI to DVI conversion cable. Doing so may result in the video and or audio not working properly". :mad:

The video was fine, just no audio. I dig through he manual and find the option to turn off audio for the HDMI out. Still no go. So, I hook the PS3 up via component for display, and I get audio! OK, I pop in "Crank" and select the PCM track - I only get 2 channel stereo, the same as I was with digital optical on my old receiever! So I got into the PS3 menu and find the "automatic" setting for HDMI audio to query the receiver. Yep, it comes back saying the device can accept DTS & DD in 5.1, but only only 2 channel PCM. I dig through the manual and find the setting to set decoding priority from "automatic" to PCM only. I query with the PS3 again - now the DTS & DD are gone, but still only 2 channel PCM. :mad:

The POS went back to BB the next day, and I recommend avoiding these Sony receivers like the plague.

While I plan on going with the Onkyo 605 for future proofing with HDMI 1.3 & DTS HD-MA decoding, but I bought a 604 from CC to "try out" and make sure it works with my DVI. I don't normally abuse the chain store's 30 return policy, but disparate times call for disparate measures. :eek:

OK, Onkyo does it right - by default the audio is off on for HDMI output, and it works fine with my DVI connection. I've had it for a few days now, and it works perfectly with my HD DVD & PS3 players on HDMI, and the multi-channel PCM rocks. But one disappointment is the volume level. My "old" receiver is a 6 yr. Sony 5.1 channel, with 100 watts per channel. The Onkyo 604 is 90 watts oer channel, 7.1 channel, but I'm only using 5.1 speakers. The power level between 100 & 90 watts per channel should only be 10%, right? Well, on my old Sony I usually had the volume level around 50%; 65% was rockin' the house. On the Onkyo, I have to crank it up to 70 to 80% volume to have decent volume. On the TrueHD audio on the Letters from Iwa Jima HD DVD, and maxed it out at 100% and it was just adequate. If I ever cranked my old Sony up to 100% I'd have had shattered windows and broken speakers.

So, now I'm thinking I need to go with an Onkyo 675 or 805 to get 100 - 110 watts per channel. Is it the HDMI audio the results in such lower volume levels, or are Onkyo receivers somehow less powerful?

EDIT: I figured it out. I had just run the "auto-configuration" with the included microphone. It did a nice job, but in digging through the manual I decided to dig into the "Advanced Settings". The volume level of each speaker can be set from -15db to +15db. Auto-configuration had set every speaker from -5 to -10db! Using the test tones, I increased the speakers from +5 to +12db. Oh yeah, now I get volume!
 
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Is there a setting in the Onkyo that allows for differant ohms settings for your speakers? If you have it set to low (4 when it should be 8) that might explain your low volume output.
 
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JoeSp said:
Is there a setting in the Onkyo that allows for differant ohms settings for your speakers? If you have it set to low (4 when it should be 8) that might explain your low volume output.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a menu to select speaker ohms settings. By default, it is set to 8 ohms, which matches my speakers.


harshness said:
While the voltage difference should be about 10%, the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) difference is about 3%.

Make sure that the receiver didn't find its way into "night mode".
Click to expand...

Nope, it was the "auto setup" with included microphone that set each speaker down from -5 to -10 db. When I manually set each speaker from +5 to +10db using test tones, it pretty much matches up with my old 100 watt receiver - 55% volume is plenty, 65% is rocking the house.

I decided to stick with the Onkyo 604; I found it online for just over $300. I think the HDMI 1.3 on the 605+ models is a bunch of hype for $200+ more.
 
Hdmi 1.3

I just purchased a new Onkyo TX-SR 805 with HDMI 1.3 and wow is this AV receiver awesome. It does everything I want, need and could possible need in the future. With the price point well below what others are selling theirs for makes it an exceptional bargain. Check it out. I purchased it from OneCall on line. The specs are a plus and in the real world it performs at least as good as if not better than any of the others even the ones costing much more. 130 clean watts per channel and more inputs/outputs than you can shake a stick at. What's more, it up-converts all video signals to either HDMI or Component, whichever you decide to use. Add to that a surround sound microphone for setting the proper surround levels and bi amping if you so desire and you have a Rolls Royce for the price of a Toyota.
 
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