Timetrax crashes router

[elephant8]

I sent this message to TimeTrax tech support, but maybe someone else on this forum has seen this problem or can answer the questions below.

I just learned about TimeTrax and am trying to use the evaluation version 1.4 before I purchase the real thing. However, I've run into a very serious problem which makes it impossible to use.

Every time I use TimeTrax online with my XM radio account, it crashes my LinkSys BEFW11S4 Vesion 4 router/wireless access point running the latest Linksys 1.52.02 firmware. I am able to access and start recording the first station, but as soon as I switch stations, all communications stops for this PC as well as another one on the router, until I power-cycle the router. This also seems to happen whenever I quit TimeTrax. When this happens, all access to the router is shut down. I cannot ping the router nor access the administration functions. The router is otherwise very reliable and I can access XM on-line through the XM web-site with no problems.

I need my PC to be behind a secure router so a simple "disable security" response is not adequate. There is something very specific which TimeTrax is doing to kill the router.

Also, when using TimeTrax with a XM or Sirius radio why does the PC still need to be connected to the internet. Although this is obviously necessart for XM on-line, it seems strange that this would still be needed with an XM radio. Is TimeTrax trying to access a TimeTrax server? If so why and is there a version of this or a similar product that does not access such a server?

Thanks

 

[PhuckNut]

Also, when using TimeTrax with a XM or Sirius radio why does the PC still need to be connected to the internet. Although this is obviously necessart for XM on-line, it seems strange that this would still be needed with an XM radio. Is TimeTrax trying to access a TimeTrax server? If so why and is there a version of this or a similar product that does not access such a server?
Thanks

I cannot answer why the TTRecast product would 'hang' a router. Seems extremely messy though if its killing the router to the point that other computers are getting their internet connections dropped....

The TT Recast product connects to the internet every 'x' minutes. It does this to:
1. Register the product and then verify validity of the product / serial number authentication.
2. It also does some other communication that I have no had the time nor know-how to figure out - but its still sending/receiving data every 'x' minutes or it shuts down.

This is the single most reason I cannot use the product today and am waiting for some kind of different approach to this big brother watching what you do - considering my internet connection is not that stable... I have to use the OLDER product they now call classic.

I hope you get a support ticket open and everything gets checked - sounds awkward.

Does this happen when its connected to Hardware only and NOT an online account?

 

[elephant8]

Reply from TimeTrax

Well, I got the following response from TimeTrax tech support
>[12/11/2005 7:52:12 AM - dserianni]
>Hi,
>
>Thanks for contacting TimeTrax,
>
>My name is Derek and I will be assisting you with your inquiry.
>
>The problem you are describing does not sound like a TimeTrax issue.
>Our software has never interfered with a Router or Lan ever.
>
>Unless you are willing to modify your settings on your router perhaps
>TimeTrax is not going to work in your environment.
>
>TimeTrax will require an always on Internet Connection and there is no
>getting around that requirement at this time.
>
>
>Derek
At this point, I'm fairly convinced from the behavior of the software, and what I've read about TimeTrax so far, that the TimeTrax "Call Home" feature is indeed directly responsible for whatever is going on with my router.
I chatted with two different tech support reps from Linksys over their on-line chat support server. They were of no help since both connections died. (Perhaps they tried the software and their routers hung too?) I then left a tech support EMail to Linksys below, which includes the chat log.
----------

Hello, I'm using a Linksys BEFW11S4 Version 4, firmware version 1.52.02.
I was corresponding with two of your on-line tech support contacts and seem to have lost both of them. A transcript with important information is below. Please read it carefully.
The router seems to be completely disabled when I run TimeTrax On-line 1.4 software. Not only is the PC that is running this software unable to access the network, but so is another PC attached to the router but which is not running TimeTrax. Neither machine can ping the router nor can they access the linksys admin screen. The only way to solve this problem is to power-cycle the router.
I'm connected to the internet through a DSL modem. However, the modem seems to be working OK. I do not need to reset it to reenable access.
TimeTrax (available from http://www.timetraxtech.com/) is hardware/software which enables you to record and time-shift Sirius and XM radio programming. I am using the software-only timetrax on-line to access my XM on-line account. (You will need a XM radio account to make this work.) The software itself works until I switch channels, or try to quit the application, at which time all network access dies. After some more investigation, I determined that the problem was with the linksys router. Power cycling the router, with no other changes, caused things to work again, and even the TimeTrax software itself resumes working.
The TimeTrax software does not specify any specific ports that need to be opened. Indeed, the software is working so I doubt that this can be a port-specific issue.
The router has been generally reliable otherwise. It was only when I tried to use this software that I started to have problems. However, there is something that TimeTrax is doing on the net (perhaps inadvertently) which causes the router to crash and stop responding.
The only suggestion I got from your on-line chat support, setting MTU to 1492 did not work. Given the fact that the router is completely non-functional, the only other clue is that when this error occurs, on the front of the router, the "Powe" "Wireless-B" LED's are on steady, "4" is blinking corresponding to the PC running TimeTrax, and "Internet" is steady, wheras Internet is usually blinking along with "4".
Are there any other known problems such as this with the BEFW11S4 which can cause the router to completely fail?
Chat transcript (with another embeded transcript) follows:

Marlon John M(15706): Hi, my name is Marlon John M(15706). How may I help you?
Me: I was just chatting with Michelle when the connection got disconnected for some reason.
Me: Michelle (13861)
Me: Do I have to start from the beginning again?
Marlon John M(15706): Okay, do you need a transfer?
Me: yeah, I gave her a lot of information.
Me: But haven't gotten any answers yet.
Marlon John M(15706): Okay.
Marlon John M(15706): Hold please.
Marlon John M(15706): She is not on, maybe we need to start.

Michelle (13861): Hi, my name is Michelle (13861). How may I help you?
Me: I'm having a problem with my BEFW11S4 V4.0 router
Michelle (13861): What is the problem you are experiencing with your Linksys product? What is the problem you are experiencing with your Linksys product?
Me: I'm trying to use new "TimeTraks" software on my PC behind the router.
Me: It seems to be crashing the router.
Me: No PC's behind the router can access the internet nor even ping the router after TimeTrax runs.
Michelle (13861): Okay.
Me: What can any network node do to completely disable the router, either accidently or deliberately?
Michelle (13861): What do you mean?
Me: Well, the TimeTrax software is somehow sending packets to the router which cause it to crash.
Me: Even from a separate PC, I can't talk to the router until I powe cycle it.
Michelle (13861): Will it work when the computer is directly connected to the modem?
Me: Again, the problem is in the router, not the modem.
Me: Computer A is running TimeTrax.
Me: Computer B is not.
Me: Computer B can no longer access the net.
Me: Computer B can no longer even get into the Linksys admin screen.
Me: Resetting the router (not the modem) clears the problem.
Michelle (13861): What is the current firmware version of the router?
Me: 1.52.02 - The latest. I already checked.
Michelle (13861): So the software works on which computer?
Me: Well, I'm using TimeTrax 1.4 running on a PC running Windows XP Service Pack 2.
Me: TimeTrax is available at http://www.timetraxtech.com/
Me: I've already contacted their tech support, but I also want to check with you as well.
Michelle (13861): Do you have ports for timetrax so we can open those ports on the router?
Me: I did not make any specific changes to the router for Timetrax.
Michelle (13861): When you called Timetrax did they give you any ports that you should use?
Me: No. I don't see any information in their documentation about specific ports. They have not yet had a chance to respond to my tech support request.
Me: The basic problem is not that TimeTrax isn't working
Me: (it is)
Michelle (13861): Okay.
Me: The problem is that it's doing something to crash the router after running for a while.
Michelle (13861): We have to contact timetrax for those ports.
Me: I think that there is a more general problem here.
Me: Are there any other known ways to completely disable this router?
Me: from a network node which does not otherwise have admin access?
Michelle (13861): What do you mean by disable? You want to use the router on switch mode?
Me: I mean that the router is completely dead.
Me: Can't ping it from any other PC
Michelle (13861): On switch mode you mean?
Me: What do you mean by switch mode?
Me: the router cannot be accessed from any of the four internal ports
Michelle (13861): You mean the computers cannot access the router's setup on the computers connected to it?
Me: yes.
Michelle (13861): Can you ping it?
Me: no.
Michelle (13861): What is the computer's IP address?
Me: All internal computers are in the DHCP cluster.
Me: 192.168.1.100
Me: 192.168.1.100-150 are set up for DHCP assigned by the router
Michelle (13861) Has Disconnected​

Marlon John M(15706): Hold.
Marlon John M(15706): Are you online?
Me: yes
Marlon John M(15706): Okay.
Marlon John M(15706): About the time trax.
Me: Go ahead.
Marlon John M(15706): Tell me more about it.
Me: Timetrax is software/hardware which allows you to access XM or Sirius radio and time shift it on your PC.
Me: It works either with a Sirius or XM radio. There is also an on-line version which accesses XM on-line.
Marlon John M(15706): Okay.
Me: I was using this version and it was working.
Me: But whenever I switched channels, the network seemed to die.
Marlon John M(15706): Does it have a recommended port, an internet port to bypass a router?
Me: no it does not.
Me: The problem is not that it cannot communicate.
Marlon John M(15706): Okay, but is working when you are on the modem?
Me: (It can, and it is getting all of the information that it's supposed to)
Me: the problem is that something it is doing is killing the router.
Me: (not the modem)
Me: As I told Michelle, no other computer on the internal net can even ping the router until I power-cycle it.
Marlon John M(15706): Yes, and we may need to know that, now, is there a way for you to check their site somehow for some internet ports?
Me: I already checked. No port numbers in their documentation or tech support.
Marlon John M(15706): Okay.
Me: Are there known bugs in the latest BEFW11S4 V4.0 firmware that could cause the router to go completely down?
Marlon John M(15706): How many computers has this application?
Me: I have two computers on the internal net, but only one of them is running TimeTrax.
Marlon John M(15706): Good.
Marlon John M(15706): Do you have the IP of that one?
Me: They are both on DHCP.
Me: 192.168.1.100
Marlon John M(15706): Okay.
Marlon John M(15706): Will you go to the router page.
Me: OK I'm there.
Marlon John M(15706): Good, look for MTU, what is it set to?
Marlon John M(15706): Who is your ISP again?
Me: MTU: Disable
Marlon John M(15706): Who is your ISP again?
Me: ISP: SBC DSL
Marlon John M(15706): Set to 1492
Me: Please give me some more clues.
Me: Still there?
Me: Hello?
Me: Hello, is anyone on-line?
Me: ????​

 

[PhuckNut]

To answer you question (in that linksys chat) you asked how to disable the router.

THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED.

However, if you wanted to effectively 'disable' the router. You would turn the PC you are using TT on into the DMZ computer. Telling the Linksys router config that the IP address you have on that PC is destined to the be the DMZ.

THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED UNLESS FIREWALL AND SECURITY MEASURES
HAVE BEEN DONE TO THE PC.

I recommend to continue to work with TT on this subject.

Its very odd that this would hang the router. Any chance you have any special type of filtering or something going on or set on the router?

__________________
Please stop deleting my Signature...It's only telling people other places they can talk about stuff where posts aren't deleted...

 

[elephant8]

Disable = Crash

When I asked the Linksys techs if there were any known ways to "disable" the router, I really meant "crash" or "hang" the router, rather than bypass it.
In my case, for whatever still unknown reason, TimeTrax is doing something that indeed crashes the router. If this were deliberate, it would be considered a "DOS" (Denial Of Service) attack and I would expect a company such as linksys to eliminate all bugs in their products which could lead to such a condition.
I agree with you, however, that the methods suggested by TimeTrax tech support (puting the PC in the DMZ, bypassing virus or worm blockers) are unacceptable since they make the PC more vulnerable to who knows whatever other worms and viruses there may be on the net.

 

[PhuckNut]

...
I agree with you, however, that the methods suggested by TimeTrax tech support (puting the PC in the DMZ, bypassing virus or worm blockers) are unacceptable since they make the PC more vulnerable to who knows whatever other worms and viruses there may be on the net.

I would agree with them that worm blockers and personal firewall changes are acceptable troubleshooting choices - but - their product should work behind a wireless router.

Here is the data sheet for that wireless router, I would suggest checking into the uPNP (Universal Plug and Play) feature and turning it off (there are security holes on that feature in general) as well as the router should be configured manual through the software or web browser. I wonder if there is something going on in that respect causing trouble.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3Dbefw11s4_v4_ds.pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1130793011182&ssbinary=true

Thats just speculation, without a proper network or packet capture trace there may never be knowing whats going to cause this trouble.

Have you upgraded to the most recent firmware for that router?