Uplink Activity Wednesday, November 16th 2005

[mdonnelly]

... I would have to dis agree with you on the point about Ergen You obvously havent seen him on a charley Chats ..

Charlie has gotten VERY RICH off of people who underestimate him.

 

[John Kotches]

goaliebob:

One thing that alot of people dont realize is that dish is allready using 8psk code for its hd channels. (I think the reason why were getting this software upgrade is for 8 psk turbo witch has not been tryed yet)

8PSK vs 8PSK-Turbo, which isn't the same. I'm quite confident that this has been alpha and beta tested very thoroughly by E*. You don't release something like this without some serious testing. There are too many customers, and too many receivers affected.

Will it be error free? Too soon to tell, but I would say that it's likely to be a smooth transition.

the thing that got me was why put it in the system tablels that the channels are in qpsk when there really not? It makes sence for dish to put those channels like that while they configure equipment like scott said.

The channels haven't been released to the public, so the accuracy of the tables don't matter. Perhaps they are testing other things that you don't know about. Until the channels go GA (Generally Available) the system table is really nothing more than a placeholder, IMO. It certainly isn't gospel and is absolutely subject to change on a whim.

I understand the long term analysis on this and why its good to do it (mpg4 recivers) but from a current coustomers standpoint... dish has not taken care of its current coustomers (look at the 921 system as an example and how people got ripped off with that boat anchor.) The outlook has allways been New coustomers for dish. Not that theres anything wrong with that, but take care of your current coustomers as they will take care of you.

Has the 921 ceased to function? Is the 921 incapable of receiving any programming at this time? It will suffer the same fate as other receivers that can't be upgraded to MPEG-4, including the much later introduced 942. So, in that respect I disagree with you.

You also don't know what programs/incentives might be available for 921 owners when MPEG-4 receivers come out, and until then it's a wait and see operation.

The 811 as an example was made available to current customers at a substantial discount from list ($149 if memory serves me correctly) very shortly after its introduction at the end of 2003. I snatched one up at that price, and even with the software issues, it has served me very well.

I would have to dis agree with you on the point about Ergen You obvously havent seen him on a charley Chats ..

You are confusing Ergen's lack of knowledge about the minutiae of E*s operations with stupidity. I'm glad he isn't well versed in the minutiae, that means he isn't micromanaging. There aren't many good CEOs of larger corporations that are versed in their companies minutiae; they are simply too busy to be versed in them. That's why they have lower level employees.

Cheers,

 

[HookedOnTV]

8PSK vs 8PSK-Turbo, which isn't the same.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but... TURBO has been in use since day one with 8PSK! The HD transponders on 110 are not going to be getting a 30% increase in bandwidth. The 30% comes by using 8PSK-TC vs. QPSK. They haven't used QPSK for HD since they killed the 5000 and added our HD-Pak to 110. You can't take quotes of Charlie from a tech chat about technical details to be accurate information.

 

[Smith P.]

For Dish engineers our reports mean nothing - why they should worried about normal receivers ? Why they need new headache with testing content, if CSR and forums overloaded by complains of buggy receivers from crying ppl ?

 

[BrettTRay]

John, I have to agree on you on alot of these things. Especially about the fact that Charlie is one of the smartest CEO's around. Charlie has almost caught up with Directv customer count whise and dish started a year or so later than Directv. Its not that I'm angry at Dish directly but I'm angry at all these CATV and Satellite companies that don't push the market and compete on getting more HD channels up there for the consumers. It's like they aren't taking the whole HD thing very serious. There are alot of HD sets out there and they are selling fast, so why isn't the companies getting more HD out in the open???? They want to sit back and let another companies make the first move instead of being the leader and take it very serious about High Definition and realise that this is the future of television.

 

[Smith P.]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but... TURBO has been in use since day one with 8PSK! The HD transponders on 110 are not going to be getting a 30% increase in bandwidth. The 30% comes by using 8PSK-TC vs. QPSK. They haven't used QPSK for HD since they killed the 5000 and added our HD-Pak to 110. You can't take quotes of Charlie from a tech chat about technical details to be accurate information.

I'm stop doing that today already - ppl posting poor speculations without shame !

 

[LASooner]

I am told that all HD receivers are getting a software upgrade to support this new version of 8PSK turbo within a week.

Anyone else with a 921 cringe when they read this?

I'm a novice at this satellite terminology, but QPSK is the old method 8PSK or 8PSK-TC is the newer method.

QPSK and 8PSK cannot reside on the same transponder, correct?

And all current SD content is broadcast in QPSK and all current HD content is in either 8PSK or 8PSK-TC depending on who you talk to.

The question I have is, when they said they were switching to 8PSK-TC for the short term, are they talking about switching ALL content to 8PSK-TC including SD channels?

Wouldn't that allow them to have HD and SD on the same transponders with less bits, and getting this 30% more bandwidth they're talking about?

Am I incorrect in assuming that SD content using 8PSK could fit more channels per transponder without losing their current compression quality?

I am a newbie, so feel free to thump me if I'm way off here.

 

[goaliebob99]

goaliebob:
8PSK vs 8PSK-Turbo, which isn't the same. I'm quite confident that this has been alpha and beta tested very thoroughly by E*. You don't release something like this without some serious testing. There are too many customers, and too many receivers affected

Past history of dish software testing, dish doesnt have a veary good track record on this.. Ie take a look at the 921 software and the 942 untill recently. And that was even with alpha and beta testing. Major Bugs were still present.

The channels haven't been released to the public, so the accuracy of the tables don't matter. Perhaps they are testing other things that you don't know about. Until the channels go GA (Generally Available) the system table is really nothing more than a placeholder, IMO. It certainly isn't gospel and is absolutely subject to change on a whim.

History has showed us that the channels that appear on these tables generally do appear. there have been some that has been on the tables to be taken off of months later. Generally that was becasue of contract negotations. In this case, Echostar has an agreement with voom months prior to this weeks updates. Also the recivers need acurate system tables as that is how the revciver tells what channels are what and other general information. Dish wouldnt release channels on the inaccurate system tables to the general public because that would cause problems.

Has the 921 ceased to function? Is the 921 incapable of receiving any programming at this time? It will suffer the same fate as other receivers that can't be upgraded to MPEG-4, including the much later introduced 942. So, in that respect I disagree with you.

You also don't know what programs/incentives might be available for 921 owners when MPEG-4 receivers come out, and until then it's a wait and see operation.

I think you missed the point here.. my point is how buggy the 921 is and dish engenerring has not fixed the problems with that reciver. Thus leaving the coustomers who payed over 1000 for this reciver high and dry. I can tell you dont have a 921. as you would have understood my point. Also by that time that a mpg4 dvr comes out the deal that they offer 921 owners would allso apply to 942 owners as were all in the same boat for mpg4. 921 owners really got the shaft on that one.

The 811 as an example was made available to current customers at a substantial discount from list ($149 if memory serves me correctly) very shortly after its introduction at the end of 2003. I snatched one up at that price, and even with the software issues, it has served me very well.

The 811 is much more stable than the 921 and is a good peace of hardware. I belive the software issues have been all fixed on that reciver unlike the 921. and the 942.. (allthought the 942 is getting veary close to being completely fixed and has been more rock solid lately)

You are confusing Ergen's lack of knowledge about the minutiae of E*s operations with stupidity. I'm glad he isn't well versed in the minutiae, that means he isn't micromanaging. There aren't many good CEOs of larger corporations that are versed in their companies minutiae; they are simply too busy to be versed in them. That's why they have lower level employees.

I think having the lack of knowledge about the operations of the company you own is a veary bad thing. With out the proper knowledge someone can undermine you in a moment and before you know it the companys gone down the toobs.. There is a way of having the knowledge of your company with out micormanaging. A CEO's job is about 80 percent listing and 20% doing work. It is a CEO's ultimate responceablity to see that company succeed. If you dont have the knowledge of what your company is doing or how there doing it you cant run a company efficantly.. Dish network can be ran alot more efficantly but at the current moment the company is not. I know from personal experiance. The lower level employees do the actuall work that is set out by top management. middle managment supervises these employees.

John, I have to agree on you on alot of these things. Especially about the fact that Charlie is one of the smartest CEO's around. Charlie has almost caught up with Directv customer count whise and dish started a year or so later than Directv.

Dish has 11.71 million vs. directv's 15 million.... if you look at the gap for every quarter its allways been directv ahead by 2 or 3 million subs... The gap hasnt closed any from last year or the year before.

 

[goaliebob99]

Anyone else with a 921 cringe when they read this?

I'm a novice at this satellite terminology, but QPSK is the old method 8PSK or 8PSK-TC is the newer method.

QPSK and 8PSK cannot reside on the same transponder, correct?

And all current SD content is broadcast in QPSK and all current HD content is in either 8PSK or 8PSK-TC depending on who you talk to.

The question I have is, when they said they were switching to 8PSK-TC for the short term, are they talking about switching ALL content to 8PSK-TC including SD channels?

Wouldn't that allow them to have HD and SD on the same transponders with less bits, and getting this 30% more bandwidth they're talking about?

Am I incorrect in assuming that SD content using 8PSK could fit more channels per transponder without losing their current compression quality?

I am a newbie, so feel free to thump me if I'm way off here.

Correct... this would give them 30% right away if they switched everything to 8psk.. Hd currently is in 8psk.

 

[The Big Wood]

And all current SD content is broadcast in QPSK and all current HD content is in either 8PSK or 8PSK-TC depending on who you talk to.

The question I have is, when they said they were switching to 8PSK-TC for the short term, are they talking about switching ALL content to 8PSK-TC including SD channels?

I was thinking along those lines as well. When the Tech guys said over 10 million receivers have been released in the past 3 years, my thought was surely that there is not that many HD receivers out. To me, it sounds like E* might be planning on switching ALL content (SD included) over to 8PSK/8PSK-TC.

SD channels don't take up as much bandwidth, but there are far more of them. Are the newer SD receivers able to do 8PSK?

 

[BrettTRay]

I thought Dish was only like a million behind Directv. My bad Bobby!!! On the serious side, I have also considered swapping to Directv but when you think about it what does Directv have that you can't live without, Universal HD / National HD (Fox,CBS,NBC, and ABC). You have a antenna so I'm sure you get them already. When it comes down to it I would never swap to Directv and neither will you. I think with a little patience Dish will be putting out some serious HD channels. They know that they will have to put out or get out because of Directv's satellite launches and there comments about adding alot of channels in High Definition.

 

[goaliebob99]

I thought Dish was only like a million behind Directv. My bad Bobby!!! On the serious side, I have also considered swapping to Directv but when you think about it what does Directv have that you can't live without, Universal HD / National HD (Fox,CBS,NBC, and ABC). You have a antenna so I'm sure you get them already. When it comes down to it I would never swap to Directv and neither will you. I think with a little patience Dish will be putting out some serious HD channels. They know that they will have to put out or get out because of Directv's satellite launches and there comments about adding alot of channels in High Definition.

Brett ray I agree with you... Expecally when it comes down to it.. I would like to see National Hd (eventhough I get them via antenna I would like a source to have them so that way i can record nbc and abc at the same time in hd. ) I think for dish to be veary competitave with D* they need to launch HD distance (nyc and LA) and the top 5 markets.. (the three that are left) and then plan for top ten markets by mid 2006. witch can easly be solved with a little house cleanning and 8psk on all channels. I think they would be able to do this in a month.. or two.. there cant be that many legacy recivers out there, and if there are they can be easly upgraded to a 311 reman for next to nothing..

 

[Horsnuts]

National HD?????

 

[goaliebob99]

National HD?????

NBC,ABC,CBS,Fox, UPN, WB, and PBS

 

[BrettTRay]

yeah i think they should at least launch the east and west coast HD channels. I would qualify for FOX and NBC since they are O&O in the Birmingham DMA.They should also launch the first few DMA with Local HD. IF you think about it, when Directv launches the first 5 DMA in HD locals that will be alot of people that are with Dish and cant get OTA locals that will switch to Directv.

 

[BrettTRay]

They definitely need to stay head to head with Directv with the HD local thing to keep from loosing alot of high dollar subs. Me personally I would much rather see non-local hd channels because I get all my locals in HD except UPN but whats on there that I would watch anyways, which I will get out of Atlanta along with TBS HD when I put up my 70' Rohn tower though.

 

[CJPC]

Yeah, that is true, even if they provided the big 4 (cbs,abc,nbc,fox) and left out WB and UPN, you get an extra market for every 2 markets you do (if that makes any sense)

However, if they could somehow someway make it compress w/o sacrificing PQ down to a SD channels bandwidth , economically, they would be in the money (Or nuke all the old boxes, everyone gets a HD mpeg4 box/dvr, can hook to a non HD tv and downres, so they can get rid of all the SD locals

But, only if! And I want those extra 12 channels soon!

 

[goaliebob99]

11/17/2005: 1810 Software Version L2.60 for ViP 211/DISH 411



Effective Friday, November 18th, Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L2.60 for the ViP 2111/17/2005: 1810 Software Version L2.60 for ViP 211/DISH 411

Effective Friday, November 18th, Engineering plans to spool the FULL PHASE of software version L2.60 for the ViP 211/DISH 411 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.



At this time L2.60 will be the valid software version for the ViP 211/DISH 411. 1/DISH 411 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.

At this time L2.60 will be the valid software version for the ViP 211/DISH 411.


Hummm.... I wonder if this has anything to do with the current modulation scheme? or if this is the first software release for the 411 and the vip 211

 

[BrettTRay]

Thats what I've alway wondered is why don't the SD receiver that can do 8psk not be able to downrez the HD channels that you subscribe to that you get on your HD receiver. My parents like some of the HD channels content that they air regardless if its in HD or not like the hd nets and some of the voom channels.

 

[CJPC]

Wow, 211/411 Release

(and EDIT : come on dishstore, we need you to start stocking and shipping the 211 before it comes out!)

Though, you can tell from that, same FW, no ethernet options at all yet :/ (I Suppose in time, just like (name your failed E* port here) it will burn, but i hope not!) Hopefully there will eventually be a VIP rls as well, seperate

And now im confused, just got some extra $$, do I buy a 942, or wait on mpeg4!

Not to mention, we will probably need to wait atleast a week to see if E* turns the other VOOM 11 on :/