VOOM HD? Really dont think so

[jorsan]

Yesterday I switched from DISH NETWORK to VOOM because all the HD content. Problem is that the quality that Im getting is lower that I used to have with DN. Today I was watching a Cindy Lauper's concert that I've seen in DISH before and quality is far far from the one that I get the first time. In channel 123 the soccer games are far far less in quality than the ones that I used to see in DN thru HDNET (US soccer league). DISCOVERY HD is not as good as in DN. . . .. its me or we have a problem here . . . ?

I have the receiver in 1080I and I use a proyector to see the TV at night. Everything is set the same way, no changes here so Im almost sure that it is not a configuration problem so . . . any ideas?

Thanks to all.

 

[Ilya]

First, check which output you are using. It should be DVI or component.
Second, make sure the STB resolution is set to 1080i or 720p.
Welcome aboard!

 

[jorsan]

Im using component and 1080I

 

[jorsan]

More than happy to be here. Thanks

 

[gross67]

I have seen the programming you mentioned and it looked terrific. I hope you find the "magic" setting for your equipment. VOOM STB on 1080i, receiver on 1080i, all conections tight as can be, etc. I had a similar problem when I played my first DVD on my HD TV. My DVD player was not set to 16/9 to match my new TV. Once I set this, it was fine. Is there an aspect ratio setting on your receiver?

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Cheers,
James

 

[BFG]

I'm taking a liking to Voom as well but still don't have it yet. But their PQ problems aren't imaginary. It's obvious that they're compressing the heck out of their channels to fit 40 HD channels and 100 SD channels on 13 TPs!!!! So yes Dish's HD quality is way better than voom. But like most people that don't notice it are those with sets smaller that 50 inch. Talk to DarrelP for info on this subject...

 

[Ilya]

Some people do state that E* has better HD quality than V*.
But I don't believe the difference can be that dramatic as you are describing.
This makes me believe that you have some problems with your setup or a defective STB.

 

[vurbano]

I'm taking a liking to Voom as well but still don't have it yet. But their PQ problems aren't imaginary. It's obvious that they're compressing the heck out of their channels to fit 40 HD channels and 100 SD channels on 13 TPs!!!! So yes Dish's HD quality is way better than voom. But like most people that don't notice it are those with sets smaller that 50 inch. Talk to DarrelP for info on this subject...

Vooms transponders are of much higher bandwidth than the other services.

 

[Sean Mota]

I have both E* and V* on both 42" and 60" TV (LCD and DLP) and do not see the difference in Discovery HD, TNT HD, or ESPN HD. These are the channels common two both and have made comparison on both services with the same program. The difference is not as it is described in the original post. Something must be wrong somewhere with the setup in order to make such a huge difference as it is implied.

 

[BFG]

Vurbano, I know they use 8PSK on all TPs, but so does E* and they've only put 3HD channels on their TPs.

With voom I know that on SHO and Starz TPs they also put 3HD channels on the TP but they also manage to squeze another 6 SD channels as well. I assume they use a similar scheme on the other 11 TPs.

 

[MarcelV]

Im using component and 1080I

When you cycle through the different output modes with the little red button, what orange bar lights up? This will tell you if the receiver is set to 1080I. Have E* and V* both on a 52" Pioneer Elite RPTV and have no or minimal difference, which is really the color balance, not the PQ...

 

[who_the]

I've got Voom and Dish Network HD. No diff in PQ here. And I've looked. Maybe a slightly different color cast -- very slight -- but the quality is really equal here. On a 62" LCoS RP.

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano, I know they use 8PSK on all TPs, but so does E* and they've only put 3HD channels on their TPs.

With voom I know that on SHO and Starz TPs they also put 3HD channels on the TP but they also manage to squeze another 6 SD channels as well. I assume they use a similar scheme on the other 11 TPs.

I think the Voom transponders have 50 Mbps bandwidth each and the others like D* have 20-30 Mbps capacity. SO I believe you are comparing apples to oranges. Someone help Ive forgot the numbers.

 

[BFG]

How can they have more Mbps per TP than the others? They both use DBS satellites and they both use MPEG2. 8PSK doesn't give you more bandwidth. It's just a scheme to better alocate the bandwidth that's there.

 

[vurbano]

How can they have more Mbps per TP than the others? They both use DBS satellites and they both use MPEG2. 8PSK doesn't give you more bandwidth. It's just a scheme to better alocate the bandwidth that's there.

The transponders Voom has are 50mbit/sec D* and E* have 27mbit/sec transponders.

 

[BFG]

I'm pretty sure that the bandwidth per transponder is an FCC spec (meaning each TP is broken into 30mb intervals) so the satellite shouldn't matter, unless im confuesd. Still curious to get this solved

 

[vurbano]

I'm pretty sure that the bandwidth per transponder is an FCC spec (meaning each TP is broken into 30mb intervals) so the satellite shouldn't matter, unless im confuesd. Still curious to get this solved

"transponders on Rainbow 1 are running at 50mbits"... I remember hearing this from Wilt and from other sources at AVS ( I think Darin) and on the net. Ask Wilt to explain it. Although under mpeg2 I dont think they can fully realize all of it but they will under mpeg4 I believe..

 

[BFG]

Ok I'll let it go. I guess that would make some sense. So the 3HD on each TP takes up the same ~ 27 MBs as it does on dish but voom has extra voom to fit the other 6 SD channels as well, so the compression is roughly the same.

 

[vurbano]

Ok I'll let it go. I guess that would make some sense. So the 3HD on each TP takes up the same ~ 27 MBs as it does on dish but voom has extra voom to fit the other 6 SD channels as well, so the compression is roughly the same.

It would be cool if you pursued the explaination with Wilt and what WM9 or mpeg4 would do for us and posted it. Would be nice to have it refreshed in my mind at least.

Maybe Sean could look into it???????

 

[Bruce]

here is a post from Dan Collins that explains Voom's bit rates:

Voom has 13 transponders in operation (11 licenses of their own, plus 2 unassigned that they use temporarily). They use a higher symbol rate than Dish or DirecTV, and they use 8PSK modulation. As a result they get a total of 66 megabits per second per transponder, 11 Mbps of which is used for error correction code. So, each transponder can deliver 55 megabits per second of data.

They carry 37 HD channels. If they were to deliver these channels all in ATSC standard 1080i, they would be able to fit 3 per transponder. That's 12 and a third transponders right there. They also deliver almost 90 SD channels. Even at 2 Mbps each (well BELOW the average for Dish and DirecTV) that would require 3 and a third transponders. Therefore, they MUST be compressing the HD below the ATSC standard.

If, as is claimed, Voom's SD content looks better than Dish and DirecTV's, they can not be compressing the SD channels below an average of 3 Mbps. That means that those 90 channels will require 5 full transponders.

That leaves 8 transponders for 37 HD channels. The bottom line is that the HD channels can't be getting more than 12 Mbits/second, or just about what DirecTV is giving their HD channels (and which many people complain is not enough). Of course, since much of the HD content is not a live feed (their proprietary content) they can spend a lot of time tweaking the compression to make these channels smaller and minimize the appearance of compression artifacts. But 15 of those channels ARE live feeds (HBO HD, ESPN HD, etc.) and so will require an average of 15Mbps to look decent. So that's 225 Mbps off the top, leaving 215Mbps for the other 22 channels, or about 9.7 Mbps second (slightly more than the average DVD).

Do the math yourself....the total bandwidth available is 715 Mbits/second. Figure out how to allocate that space to 37 HD and 90 SD channels and end up giving channels more bandwidth than does Dish or DirecTV. What you'll find is that they MUST be compressing some channels pretty severely - it's just a matter of which ones.

For reference, here is the bandwidth used by Dish Network and DirecTV for core (not locals), counting only the CONUS capacity:

Dish Network: 1,320 Mbits per second (1.8 times as much as Voom)
DirecTV: 1,224 Mbits per second (1.7 times as much as Voom)


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