Tribune Broadcasting Company Blacks Out DISH Customers in 33 Markets;

[Hall]

Here's one of the threads I referred to, http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/ota-epg-info-incorrect-or-displaying-digital-service.246013/

From 2011, 450 posts, and very, very few, if any of the 'reports' were corrected.

A more recent thread here, http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/report-dish-guide-issues-here.346644/

Here's an interesting quote from Tony S (DIRT):

I have been looking into this as long as DIRT has been around and have spoken with many people with regard to changing the current business practices surrounding it. During LIN, I drove for a change, using it as a catalyst to provide software that would actively read PSID information. I push, and it pushed back. I learned (during conversations and research) that the information is "purchased" from Tribune at a cost that I do not know. The business decision DISH has made was not to spend more money purchasing additional information from the third party, or buying and refitting the hardware and software needed to decode it from the data stream directly from the receiver or at the Uplink center(s).

One of my responses to Tony:

Current 'rule of thumb': if we do not provide the channel, we do not provide the data.

That is a starting point, in my opinion. Without question, if Dish carries your local ABC, NBC, etc, etc and you also pick it up via OTA antenna, they will duplicate the guide data for us (for the -1 channel).

Anytime that this doesn't occur, there's a "mistake". Mistakes can happen if the station changes some "numbers", possibly the TSID (from what I recall reading at AVS, it's some hex values) and Dish doesn't update things on their end, we'll see DIGITAL SERVICE in the guide. Rebooting the receiver, forcing a guide update, etc, etc will NOT fix this. The end-user CANNOT fix this issue. Calling tech support at Dish -- no offense -- is a waste of time. Reporting this issue in the thread on this topic here, well, ummm, never mind.... The best hope you have is to contact the local station's engineering department and hope you get a helpful person on the other end. It's possible they can put the value back to the previous value. If they do, our receivers will update on their own. Otherwise, the station needs to contact Dish. We have to presume they have a "special" phone number to call but based on my conversations with an engineer at our local PBS, they can still not get the "right" person at Dish !! He told me it didn't go well but he eventually got someone competent.

Finally, regarding the sub-channels that our local stations (only the local stations that Dish carries) broadcast, it's seems be that someone or some group at Dish loaded the "numbers" (see previous paragraph) that allows us to receive guide data for the sub-channels. Was it done unofficially ? Maybe... In my area, Dish carries ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS (can't remember the rest). I get guide data for ALL OF THEIR SUB-CHANNELS. It's not correct in all cases, but I get it.

 

[rvvaquero]

That was my understanding of it. Only if it was a subchannel of the ones they carried.

I don't know how any of it works or where any of it comes from. I do know that my channel guide has info on OTA channels in my guide which DISH does not carry or offer. This is not true for all OTA channels, but for at least three of them.

 

[pattykay]

So Tribune also owns Gracenote...

Dish must have recently struck a new deal with Gracenote recently, though, because I noticed a change in Dish's policy about providing OTA guide information to deactivated receivers a couple of months ago. Now, all of my deactivated HD receivers have OTA guide data for the few channels for which Dish actually provides guide data. Previously, a subscription to local channels was required before the OTA guide data could be displayed.

Unfortunately, there are still local channels that Dish actually carries, such as WMFD (Cleveland, OH market) that do not have OTA guide data on any of my Dish receivers.

 

[bluegras]

Tribune: Dish constantly puts itself before needs of its subscribers
Dish Network this week filed lawsuits against Tribune Broadcasting and Tower Distribution, owner of WGN, over a blackout affecting 42 stations in 33 markets. Tribune responded by calling the lawsuits "frivolous" and accusing Dish of always putting itself before the needs of its subscribers.
http://www.fiercecable.com/story/tr...nds&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[MikeD-C05]

I can confirm the unsubscribed deactivated receivers having ota Giude data. I found that out over a week ago when I was installing my hopper-three to peak my new sat dish and hybrid lnb. My old 211k that I keep connected to the satellite dish ,in order to power my clip on antenna for ota, has guide data for ota channels it never had before.


Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys mobile app

 

[ChadT41]

Tribune saying that Dish is just thinking of themselves when they are the ones that pulled the signal and turned down the True Up offer is laughable.

 

[dare2be]

Comical what's coming out from both sides. More entertaining than many shows that are produced today.

 

[tornado]

I won’t have my satellite provider held over a barrel to provide local channels for me on their system because they are supposed to be free.
The loss of local channels does not influence my feelings toward a satellite provider in any way, shape, or form.
These local channels are free over the air.
It’s nice to have locals through the satellite system, but they are not necessary.
Dish Network is the far superior television service in existence.
The local broadcasters can take a long walk off of a short pier.
Just my opinion.

 

[DishSubLA]

I remember Ergen saying in a long ago Charlie Chat that he did NOT want people buying Dish OTA capable boxes because it was "sophisticated" heavily subsided sat box, unless they also subscribed to Dish services. At the time a Dish OTA box/DVR was, indeed far less expensive and far more advanced, at least the DVR functionality, than other solutions available at the time. While the legacy OTA boxes could receive PSIP only because DBS could not legally re-transmit LIL as they do today, it seems Dish's business decision after LIL became legal was to just not bother with PSIP in all future boxes. After all, they were not in the OTA DVR business; they were in the DBS business, and while we here in Los Angeles have excellent PSIP data, at the time and even as of today, far too many markets have very poor or unreliable PSIP data. That would be a very negative experience for too many Dish subscribers and could hurt keeping and getting subscribers. Also, considering that part of the appeal of DBS was getting LIL's in homes that had no LOS for OTA antenna, one can see that Dish didn't want to pay for two different solutions when only ONE offered more lucrative returns: the non-PSIP approach using, instead, far more rich and detailed metadata with over a week's worth for the EPG from Tribune Media (now Gracenote) or Rovi, etc. for its LIL EPG data. It seems Dish feels this is the ONLY way for it to go.

Of course, this is IMHO, but Charlie made it pretty clear that he was in the DBS business not the OTA DVR business. Ironically, Echostar produces the Channel Master DVR+, a very popular alternative to TiVo (whose future as the DVR maker it is today is in serious doubt) that isn't all that inexpensive. DVR+ offers either PSIP or the more rich and detailed metadata from Rovi via the CM+ connected to the internet.

FWIW, I feel that PSIP should be an option, even if it is one that Dish controls. I agree, having a few days worth of varying quality of PSIP during a dispute is far better than not having any. Of course, this applies to those who have the OTA connected to the Dish box. The most troublesome, expensive, and just plain awful part of the DBS business is the whole LIL mess: making deals with so many entities whose attitude is DBS and cable need to pay more, more, more, and more, and, often, people feel the loss of an LIL more than they do a national cable/sat channel. I really do wish Dish and Direct and even cable could include some sort of robust OTA work around for this, but even that does not help those who have no LOS for OTA.

 

[sam_gordon]

one can see that Dish didn't want to pay for two different solutions

I'm curious what are the two solutions Dish would have to pay for? PSIP *IS* free (granted, someone would have to write the code to utilize that, but that should only be a one time charge).

 

[Cold Irons]

I'm curious what are the two solutions Dish would have to pay for? PSIP *IS* free (granted, someone would have to write the code to utilize that, but that should only be a one time charge).

....and so, obviously is not free. Designing & writing the software, maintaining it, debugging it, troubleshooting it, carrying it forward to new systems, etc., etc. Nothing is business is free, the only questions for my business is: "If I spend this money, how does that make me more money?". Any other approach is a losing proposition.

 

[bobvick]

I remember Ergen saying in a long ago Charlie Chat that he did NOT want people buying Dish OTA capable boxes because it was "sophisticated" heavily subsided sat box, unless they also subscribed to Dish services. At the time a Dish OTA box/DVR was, indeed far less expensive and far more advanced, at least the DVR functionality, than other solutions available at the time. While the legacy OTA boxes could receive PSIP only because DBS could not legally re-transmit LIL as they do today, it seems Dish's business decision after LIL became legal was to just not bother with PSIP in all future boxes.

I never remember EchoStar having a receiver with an ATSC tuner before LIL came about. Dish Network launched LIL in late 1997 in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Denver, New York, and Washington DC on EchoStar 3 (61.5). WRAL launched the first experimental digital broadcast station on June 19, 1996, so there wasn't even any ATSC/HD television available to anyone, nor much if any equipment, for all practical purposes, before Dish launched their LIL service. That particular theory doesn't seem to hold water based on the historical facts. I believe their first HD receiver was the Model 6000 and it had an option for an ATSC tuner, and was released well after the date that LIL was being offered.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I still say that DISH should solve this problem with ota guide data by offering the guide data from the satellite for ota channels that they carry in dbs form and let the receiver read the psip data for the sub channels that they don't carry. They could also allow a second option and allow the receiver to get it's detailed guide data from the internet like Tivo does ,but I am sure that if they did that option , they would find a way to charge for it, thus creating another DISH fee. But for those who wanted the detailed guide data for all their channels and sub channels it would be an option. I mean we have the internet connected for the full experience ,why not allow the internet to do the guide?

 

[Tampa8]

I don't remember DISH receivers having OTA tuners prior to Local/Local being carried, but they did have a pass through antenna connection that you switched to to watch so you could use the same (Dish) remote.

 

[Troch77]

I have some guide info too for sub channels.

I think you need to calibrate your tv.
That's an awful lot of Red tint.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[charlesrshell]

I think you need to calibrate your tv.
That's an awful lot of Red tint

Thanks, it's an old 50" Panasonic plasma in our bedroom. Will try to adjust it.

 

[Troch77]

Thanks, it's an old 50" Panasonic plasma in our bedroom. Will try to adjust it.

Lol. Try setting it to cool or Neutral.
That may help.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[charlesrshell]

Lol. Try setting it to cool or Neutral.
That may help.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

OK, thanks again.

 

[charlesrshell]

Lol. Try setting it to cool or Neutral.
That may help.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

Changed the setting to Cool. Picture looks much better. Thanks

 

[Foxbat]

And here I thought he was joking about "Clifford the Big Red Dog" program entries...