Buffer Question - ViP622

[DavidZ]

I was in Radio Shack today playing with the 622 they have on display.

When I viewed a recorded program and then switched back to live TV, the buffer was gone. Is there a way to watch a recorded program and then switch back to live TV and maintain the buffer?

 

[RockinHARD26]

You got me. I love how the 622 worked like the HD Motorola box I had with the cable company. Comparing it to a regular setup, it has a few second sound/video delay. Sounds like an ecko effect side by side. I saw on some programs, the sound didn't exactly line up with the video. I can read people's mouths and the 622 seemed off the other day. I changed the channel, and it was back to normal. It was like watching a TV show converted from a different language.

 

[DavidZ]

RockinHARD26, you must've responded to the wrong thread. My question is...

I was in Radio Shack today playing with the 622 they have on display.

When I viewed a recorded program and then switched back to live TV, the buffer was gone. Is there a way to watch a recorded program and then switch back to live TV and maintain the buffer?

 

[n0qcu]

Is there a way to watch a recorded program and then switch back to live TV and maintain the buffer?

No, stoping playback and changing channels both clear out the buffer.

 

[DavidZ]

No, stoping playback and changing channels both clear out the buffer.

Stopping playback -- that's too bad. Is there any way to watch a recorded program and have the buffer preserved when you're done?

Changing channels -- According to the responses in another thread, when you switch channels using the swap button, the buffer is preserved on both tuners. See: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-hd-discussions/102191-buffer-questions-vip622-hdmi.html

 

[garys]

Set the current program to record before going to the recorded program.

 

[waltinvt]

I was in Radio Shack today playing with the 622 they have on display.

When I viewed a recorded program and then switched back to live TV, the buffer was gone. Is there a way to watch a recorded program and then switch back to live TV and maintain the buffer?

No, you can only swap between tuners.

 

[Hall]

The 622 is rather restrictive in *when* it buffers. It's thinking is, if you're not physically watching the channel, it doesn't buffer. When watching a pre-recorded show, whatever channel you *were* on is not buffered.

We used to have an SA8300HD that buffered (2) tuners, 24 hours a day. It was nice when we had channel 7, for example, tuned, then watched a show from the recordings. If we finished at say 11:15pm, we could "rewind" to the beginning of the 11pm news. That's something we'd like to do with the 622 but it doesn't. I'm positive that the 522/625 does this or at least it used to. I believe someone said they no longer do this though.

 

[DavidZ]

The 622 is rather restrictive in *when* it buffers. It's thinking is, if you're not physically watching the channel, it doesn't buffer. When watching a pre-recorded show, whatever channel you *were* on is not buffered.

Thanks. Not the answer I wanted, but I certainly appreciate your response.

We used to have an SA8300HD that buffered (2) tuners, 24 hours a day.

Actually, the SA8300HD will maintain the buffers in this manner when you use the component outputs, but not when using the HDMI output. Using the HDMI output, the buffer is deleted whenever you turn the HDTV off or change inputs. I think it also deletes the buffer when you change channels.

It was nice when we had channel 7, for example, tuned, then watched a show from the recordings. If we finished at say 11:15pm, we could "rewind" to the beginning of the 11pm news. That's something we'd like to do with the 622 but it doesn't.

Exactly. Once you get the hang of exploiting the buffer in this way, you never have to watch a commercial again.

I want my TiVo! Damn you DirecTV for abandoning TiVo!

I'm positive that the 522/625 does this or at least it used to. I believe someone said they no longer do this though.

I'm not familiar with these units. Is there a summary of the available Dish DVRs?

 

[Hall]

I've always used component connections myself. Turning the channel on every DVR will flush the buffer. I'm sure that's even the case on a TiVo, is it not ??

The 522/625 is not for HD, so don't worry 'bout it.

 

[DavidZ]

I've always used component connections myself. Turning the channel on every DVR will flush the buffer. I'm sure that's even the case on a TiVo, is it not ??

Actually, no.

On a dual-tuner TiVo, if you change channels using the number pad or the up/down buttons, the buffer on THAT tuner only is deleted. However, if you swap tuners using the Live TV button, the buffers remain intact. In this respect, the 622's swap button sounds like it functions identically to a dual-tuner TiVo, except the TiVo's buffers are only 30 minutes, not 60 minutes (advantage goes to the 622).

OTOH, on a dual-tuner TiVo, when you return to live TV after watching a recorded program, both tuners' buffers are intact. Very nice.

Despite the fact that the 622 is not a TiVo and despite the fact that I've been an extremely happy DirecTivo customer since 2001, I just signed up for Dish. I'm paying the $50 activation fee to avoid the 18-month commitment. I'll be getting my 622 installed this Friday.

 

[navychop]

Actually, Garys said it. Just press the record button before you change channels. Then accept "record to end of event" and you're find.

With Dish, you'll enjoy the 30 second skip ahead button. Much better than FF. And the EPG is faster than Tivo, and you won't have those stupid sounds.

The ViP622 is the best MPEG-4 HD DVR on the market, IMHO.

 

[DavidZ]

Actually, Garys said it. Just press the record button before you change channels.

Way too much of a nuisance. I shouldn't have to.

It makes absolutely no sense to delete the buffers just because you watched a recorded program. Period.

Then accept "record to end of event" and you're fine.

Not at all.

As I said before, once you learn how to exploit the buffers, you never have to watch a commercial again. If you have no buffers to exploit (ie, they've been deleted because you've watched a recorded program?!), you end up watching commercials.

Once you learn this technique, you don't want it taken away from you.

With Dish, you'll enjoy the 30 second skip ahead button.

TiVo has the same feature, you just have to know the 6-key code on the remote to engage it. Once, engaged, the "jump to the end" button becomes a "30 second skip ahead" button.

Much better than FF.

No way. TiVo's jumpback feature trumps the 622.

And the EPG is faster than Tivo...

I've used both and, I agree, the 622 seems a bit faster. But the speed of TiVo's EPG has never been an issue for me.

...and you won't have those stupid sounds.

The sounds don't bother me. In fact, it's nice to have an acknowledgement that your keystoke was received.

Also, if you want to be fair, TiVo's interface is much nicer and more intuitive.

The ViP622 is the best MPEG-4 HD DVR on the market, IMHO.

Well, CNET agrees with you, but not by a huge margin.

From what I've seen, without yet having one in my home, the 622 seems like an OK DVR. Way better than cable's SA8300, which is in my home now, but not for long. And, from what I've read, way better than anything DirecTV currently has to offer. That's why I've decided to try out Dish and the 622.

However, I'll withhold my ultimate judgement untill I've lived with the 622 for a while.

 

[Hall]

On a dual-tuner TiVo, if you change channels using the number pad or the up/down buttons, the buffer on THAT tuner only is deleted.

I said nothing about the "other" tuner. I run in dual-mode, so I can't confirm what the 622 does with the other tuner's buffer.

 

[Hall]

The sounds don't bother me. In fact, it's nice to have an acknowledgement that your keystoke was received.

I suspect you get used to the sounds and eventually block them out but the acknowledgement I want is that the machine does what I tell it. I don't need it to "ding" (command rec'd ... executing) and then do it. Just do it !

 

[Jim5506]

So, you guys want the 622 to be more like the TiVo. Didn't Dish already get sued because of that.

BTY 622's buffer does not dump when you change the other channel, only on the tuner that's changed.

 

[DavidZ]

So, you guys want the 622 to be more like the TiVo.

What I want is a service provider (eg, satellite, cable, etc) that offers an intergrated TiVo service in HD, like DirecTV used to.

In the meantime, I'll try out Dish and the 622 without the 18-month commitment. Who knows, maybe I'll like it even better? Or maybe something else will come on the market?

 

[Jim5506]

You'll find the 622 interface is quite nice.

It's TiVo that is moving in the other direction, with cable compatibility and no satellite compatibility.

DirecTv made a big mistake in going it's own way with their DVR, If they'd stuck with TiVo they could have had a whiz-bang DVR and a great advantage in the market, instead they put out a mediocre product.

TiVo sort of spat in DishNetworks face with their nuisance suit, so I don't see Dish partnering with them. If TiVo had been a little more civil, they might have gotten a big fat deal with Charlie.

 

[Pepper]

If I'm not mistaken, I think you can open a pip window, swap what you're watching into it, then start playback of a recording, and close the pip, and the buffer will be intact.

Only works in single mode though.

 

[bfootdav]

Pepper, yes the PIP/swap trick does work (though you don't need to hit PIP first, just swap) but it's not quite as useful as how the TiVo buffers. When I had a TiVo I didn't have to think about preserving the buffer as it was always there. It's one of those things that once you get used to using not having it drives you crazy.

DavidZ, the TiVo is a better product (for this and other reasons) but I stick with the 622 because Dish provides much better HD programming than anyone else (especially compared to my local cable provider) and so I'm willing to put up with it. The 622 also has a third tuner that you can record to if you receive any HD channels over the air (antenna) that has actually come in useful several times (especially considering we do not get CW in HD on Dish). Another problem with Dish (and this isn't bashing just pointing out some shortcomings) is that it doesn't handle consecutive shows that last 15 minutes (like Adult Swim). And the last problem that really annoys me is that you cannot search by director. For many film buffs it is the director that matters and not being able to search under that criterion (like with TiVo) is a big deal.

All that said I still prefer the 622 but mainly because of Dish programming. My overall feeling is that this is the worst of times for HD because there is no perfect HD DVR/programming system that has all the best features. You have to compromise and compromise big and hope you can live with it.