CES 2023 - ATSC 3.0 and Antenna Tech + 4K HDR Broadcasts

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Mochuf

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Will we really see 4K broadcasts or will it be five 720p channels instead from a station?
 
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primestar31

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Will we really see 4K broadcasts or will it be five 720p channels instead from a station?
Very unlikely to get 4k broadcasts as an every-day thing. MAYBE from some certain specials from time to time. Realize the average person can NOT see much difference in a 1080 broadcast, versus 4k.

What would be a MUCH better and noticeable standard that could be done every day, is 1080p HEVC HDR

Realize that there's only just so much bandwidth per channel, and 4k would take almost all the bandwidth even a 3.0 station has. That wouldn't allow anything for subchannels and the like and wouldn't gain them any additional money for doing that, versus subchannels with more advertisers packed in.
 
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dweber

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During the Antenna man interview with Madeleine Noland, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, she mentioned that Sinclair has implemented HDR on all of their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. I don’t have any ATSC 3.0 receivers so I can’t verify this. Can someone who is using ATSC 3.0 in a Sinclair market check out whether they are using HDR.


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harshness

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During the Antenna man interview with Madeleine Noland, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, she mentioned that Sinclair has implemented HDR on all of their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. I don’t have any ATSC 3.0 receivers so I can’t verify this. Can someone who is using ATSC 3.0 in a Sinclair market check out whether they are using HDR.
My local Sinclair station, KATU, is an ABC affiliate and the NEXTGEN TV content is 720p SDR. The lighthouse station is a Nexstar property so it may not reflect what Sinclair is doing on their own lighthouse stations. At best, the president's comment wasn't delivered with the proper context; the NEXTGEN TV broadcast may need to be coming from a Sinclair-owned lighthouse.

The Fox broadcast station, KPTV (Gray Television), provides a 1080p rendition of Fox programming so this perhaps backs up my thinking about lighthouse ownership being a key element of who gets the best treatment.

My market (#21) has two NextGen TV lighthouses: KRCW (Nexstar) and KPDX (Gray Television) serving up a total of six HD feeds and one SD feed.

Turning HDR/WCG on when the original content lacks the underlying HDR/WCG information is likely wasteful of bandwidth.

I note that the watchnextgentv.com site still hasn't fixed the Philly issue that was noted my Ms. Noland.
 
primestar31

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During the Antenna man interview with Madeleine Noland, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, she mentioned that Sinclair has implemented HDR on all of their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. I don’t have any ATSC 3.0 receivers so I can’t verify this. Can someone who is using ATSC 3.0 in a Sinclair market check out whether they are using HDR.


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Yep, WSMH in my DMA is a Sinclair station. The 66.1 Fox affiliate ATSC 3.0 station being broadcast from the lighthouse, is HEVC 1280 x 720 video, with AC-4 audio.

The lighthouse isn't owned by Sinclair, but it's controlled by Sinclair through one of their dummy corps.
 
Howard Simmons

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During the Antenna man interview with Madeleine Noland, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, she mentioned that Sinclair has implemented HDR on all of their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. I don’t have any ATSC 3.0 receivers so I can’t verify this. Can someone who is using ATSC 3.0 in a Sinclair market check out whether they are using HDR.


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I don't know if this helps or not but this is off Sinclair's website. Deployments - ATSC : NextGen TV
 
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I can't wait for Informercials in 4K with HDR!!!
 
navychop

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They might be the only ones that spring for DV!
 
harshness

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My local Fox affiliate, KPTV, which owns their lighthouse has introduced a basic menu of additional services that is accessed using the right cursor button on the remote. This is the second sign I've seen in two years of ATSC 3.0 that there's more to the new standard than another station to tune (and it tunes very, very slowly). The first was getting a 1080p version of Fox content (I'm not sure from what format(s) it was converted).

There are a few video feeds indexed and some weather information (both video and RADAR stills).
 
dweber

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During the Antenna man interview with Madeleine Noland, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee, she mentioned that Sinclair has implemented HDR on all of their ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. I don’t have any ATSC 3.0 receivers so I can’t verify this. Can someone who is using ATSC 3.0 in a Sinclair market check out whether they are using HDR.


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I received the following answer from the Silicondust atsc 3.0 forum. It is very interesting.

All ATSC 3.0 video broadcasts are currently HEVC with AC-4 audio, so nothing new there. What Dweber3 is asking about is the fact that Sinclair-owned broadcast stations are now encoding their content with SL-HDR1 (aka 'Technicolor HDR') metadata added. Sinclair claimsthat they've launched this with 36 stations, as of Jan 05, 2023. Based on a quick review of my local Sinclair-owned station here in Raleigh, NC, I can confirm that, at a very minimum, the metadata for SL-HDR1 on CW22 is indeed present.

The primary issue with the Technicolor HDR format though is that it was largely abandoned by most TV manufacturers a few years ago (for instance, LG dropped official firmware support in their 2021 models), presumably because Technicolor finalized SL-HDR1 in 2016 or so, and yet there had been no major deployments of it in the real broadcast world (I think one niche European broadcast channel utilized it). LG was probably Technicolor's biggest supporter of SL-HDR1 with their high-end OLED TVs from 2017-2020, but tmk, no major TV manufacturer has enabled SL-HDR1 support in their 2021 and 2022 TV models. TCL made a big announcement at CES that their high-end miniLED 2023 TVs would support SL-HDR1, and it remains to be seen if that will come to fruition (my guess is that it will).

Even though the adoption of SL-HDR1 has been very slow, the primary reason for it's existence is two-fold: First, it can be delivered as one primary stream to both SDR and HDR TVs. SL-HDR1 is capable of dynamic metadata similar to Dolby Vision and HDR10+, but unlike those two formats, the base layer for SL-HDR1 is actually 8-bit SDR. Therefore, when a channel with SL-HDR1 is viewed on a SDR-only display, or a non-SL-HDR1-compliant HDR display, only the 8-bit SDR-graded picture will be shown. The result of this is that there should be no noticeable difference in the image, contrast, and color quality of this decoding compared to traditional SDR channels. The second advantage is that in contrast to the HLG HDR format, which also shoots for similar general compatibility, SL-HDR1's approach can deliver much more dynamic color and contrast when in true HDR mode. A true HDR source converted to SL-HDR1 for broadcast and then properly decoded back in HDR should look very similar to the original source in terms of color and contrast. This is dissimilar to HLG, as HLG generally looks less 'HDR-like' in HDR mode (in my experience, only the luma is truly somewhat equivalent), and not as professionally graded when decoded in SDR mode. The metadata in SL-HDR1 can even upconvert standard SDR to HDR with minimal interaction from the broadcaster, although the effectiveness of this is only going to be as good as the LUT applied, and probably no better than what most higher-end TVs are already capable of when placed into their internal SDR-to-faux-HDR picture modes.

Unfortunately, none of the TVs I have natively support SL-HDR1 for me to be able to verify the exact approach Sinclair is taking with this current broadcasting. Whether they are just passing basic metadata or attempting to do an HDR upconversion is unknown. A basic metadata passthrough, even with all colors residing within the Rec 709 colorspace, could have some value in assisting a TV with more accurate picture decoding. This is something that I've seen done in some Dolby Vision demos, and it results in a far superior and much more accurate image that I've always wondered why Dolby didn't promote it more. I seriously doubt that Sinclair is actually sourcing any content in native HDR right now. From a look at the stations they own, these seem to be mostly ABC, FOX, CW, and meTV affiliates, and none of these major broadcasters have a HDR distribution path today. Sinclair has a HDR distribution path for the regional RSNs that they own, but I doubt any of that content is being simulcast to the OTA.
 
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harshness

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What Dweber3 is asking about is the fact that Sinclair-owned broadcast stations are now encoding their content with SL-HDR1 (aka 'Technicolor HDR') metadata added.
I'm confused. It was my understanding that HLG was to be the HDR/WCG component of the ATSC 3.0 standard. In reviewing the current A/341 stuff, they still talk about HLG but they've introduced a bunch of information on SL-HDR1 under the heading of SDR.

Specifically, section 6.3.2 says:
ATSC 3.0 A/341 Video - HEVC said:
6.3.2 Specific Constraints Regarding Video Transfer Characteristics
The video transfer characteristics shall be signaled as one of the following: SDR, PQ, or HLG as
specified in Sections 6.3.2.1, 6.3.2.2, and 6.3.2.3, respectively.
This looks suspiciously like something that has been sloppily pasted into the standard.

That few devices appear to handle SL-HDR1 supports my argument that it is substantially a waste of bandwidth.
 
primestar31

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I'm confused. It was my understanding that HLG was to be the HDR/WCG component of the ATSC 3.0 standard. In reviewing the current A/341 stuff, they still talk about HLG but they've introduced a bunch of information on SL-HDR1 under the heading of SDR.

Specifically, section 6.3.2 says:
This looks suspiciously like something that has been sloppily pasted into the standard.

That few devices appear to handle SL-HDR1 supports my argument that it is substantially a waste of bandwidth.
Sinclair is likely doing payoffs to push this through
 
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dweber

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harshness

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What the article doesn't seem to discuss in detail is that HLG is largely metadata-based. It depends only on being able to deal with BT.2020 to work but I'd imagine it wouldn't depend on that compatibility to be ignored.

More importantly, as you pointed out earlier, TVs typically don't support SL-HDR1 and the absence of that support may or may not be something that can be practically addressed in firmware.

Adoption of NEXTGEN TV is arguably at a crossroads and they certainly can't risk alienating those who have chosen to adopt already.

It would appear that Sinclair has been complicit in making ATSC 3.0 a moving target and now is not the time -- especially when most TVs in homes have an established and free alternative. Samsung's example with HDR10+ and the damage it has done must not be ignored.
 
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