Change SlimLine to SWM - off-air question

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bgcarl

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 6, 2009
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Marietta, GA
I have four HR20s but existing SlimLine 5LNB is too limited for all the dual tuners. I seem to recall in my dim memory from past forum traffic that there is an issue with off-air guide info if I only have the 99, 101 and 103 satellites (SWM3.) Does the regular D* guide still contain the off-air program info from the 99/101/103 satellites or is there some requirement to pull it from the 110 or 119 satellites? I have verified that all my HR20s have the FTM capability on SAT 1 input so think I'm good to go for SWM.

I'm pretty technical and assume I only need to change the LNB, add an appropriate splitter and power supply, and reconfigure each receiver to the SWM mode. Would appreciate any help as the off-air capabillity and channel guide info is important when weather interrupts satellite service.
 

raoul5788

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I have four HR20s but existing SlimLine 5LNB is too limited for all the dual tuners. I seem to recall in my dim memory from past forum traffic that there is an issue with off-air guide info if I only have the 99, 101 and 103 satellites (SWM3.) Does the regular D* guide still contain the off-air program info from the 99/101/103 satellites or is there some requirement to pull it from the 110 or 119 satellites? I have verified that all my HR20s have the FTM capability on SAT 1 input so think I'm good to go for SWM.

I'm pretty technical and assume I only need to change the LNB, add an appropriate splitter and power supply, and reconfigure each receiver to the SWM mode. Would appreciate any help as the off-air capabillity and channel guide info is important when weather interrupts satellite service.

IIRC, the issue is when you try to use a 5 lnb with a 3 lnb menu setup. The guide data still tries to come in from 119, which won't work that way. With the 3 lnb SWM, you should be fine. If this info needs correcting, please someone jump in and correct me.
 

wildbill129

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Jul 31, 2009
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Redding, CA
I have four HR20s but existing SlimLine 5LNB is too limited for all the dual tuners. I seem to recall in my dim memory from past forum traffic that there is an issue with off-air guide info if I only have the 99, 101 and 103 satellites (SWM3.) Does the regular D* guide still contain the off-air program info from the 99/101/103 satellites or is there some requirement to pull it from the 110 or 119 satellites? I have verified that all my HR20s have the FTM capability on SAT 1 input so think I'm good to go for SWM.

I'm pretty technical and assume I only need to change the LNB, add an appropriate splitter and power supply, and reconfigure each receiver to the SWM mode. Would appreciate any help as the off-air capabillity and channel guide info is important when weather interrupts satellite service.

I am assuming you know that with your four DVR's your are maxed out on tuners with the SWM LNB? It only supports 8. Did you consider getting a SWM 8/16/32 multiswitch so you have room for expansion? I know it's a little off your topic, just wanted to make sure you knew it for down the road....
 

bgcarl

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 6, 2009
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Marietta, GA
Thanks for the comment. Yes, I'm aware that the capacity is at its limit with four dual tuners but can't see that I would want any more. Also, not sure if its a valid premise, but I assume that the splitter for eight would sacrifice a few more dBs and wanted to be sure I was getting all the signal strength the system can provide. If there is a future requirement to expand, another splitter is relatively inexpensive to swap out.
 

texasbrit

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Apr 12, 2006
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Thanks for the comment. Yes, I'm aware that the capacity is at its limit with four dual tuners but can't see that I would want any more. Also, not sure if its a valid premise, but I assume that the splitter for eight would sacrifice a few more dBs and wanted to be sure I was getting all the signal strength the system can provide. If there is a future requirement to expand, another splitter is relatively inexpensive to swap out.

I am really unsure why you are doing this, IMHO it's a complet waste of time and money. Going to an SWM LNB gains you nothing other than the ability to drive DVRs with a single cable, but since you already have them connected with two cables that's no gain at all. Right now your dish is at capacity but by using conventional multiswitches (WB68s) or even multiple SWM8 stand-alone multiswitches, or the SWM16/32 when they are released, you can connect as many receivers and DVRs as you like. I think you are misunderstanding how the SWM system works. Using an SWM LNB at your dish limits you to eight tuners FOR EVER, you can't expand the system by using a larger splitter.
 

yorktown

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Nov 10, 2009
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I am really unsure why you are doing this, IMHO it's a complet waste of time and money. Going to an SWM LNB gains you nothing other than the ability to drive DVRs with a single cable, but since you already have them connected with two cables that's no gain at all. Right now your dish is at capacity but by using conventional multiswitches (WB68s) or even multiple SWM8 stand-alone multiswitches, or the SWM16/32 when they are released, you can connect as many receivers and DVRs as you like. I think you are misunderstanding how the SWM system works. Using an SWM LNB at your dish limits you to eight tuners FOR EVER, you can't expand the system by using a larger splitter.

You must have missed the very first sentence of the thread -
I have four HR20s but existing SlimLine 5LNB is too limited for all the dual tuners.
 

wildbill129

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Jul 31, 2009
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Redding, CA
Thanks for the comment. Yes, I'm aware that the capacity is at its limit with four dual tuners but can't see that I would want any more. Also, not sure if its a valid premise, but I assume that the splitter for eight would sacrifice a few more dBs and wanted to be sure I was getting all the signal strength the system can provide. If there is a future requirement to expand, another splitter is relatively inexpensive to swap out.

Carl,

You can't split the SWM LNB anymore than 4 times if you are using two tuner DVR's. There is NO ability to expand beyond 8 tuners with a splitter. You will have to go back to a conventional LNB, and use multiple SWM8's, or a SWM16/32.

If I were you I would get the SWM8 multiswitch and keep your existing dish. You already have four lines coming from it. Four lines into SWM8, and you have two outputs on the SWM 8. You can split each one twice, (one line to each DVR just like the SWM lnb) or just one of them four times. If you ever need to expand more than 8 tuners, you can split the four lines from the dish into two SWM8's or get a bigger SWM multiswitch.

To me, this is easier, no messing with the LNB, and you still have the benefits of SWM with room for expansion.

All you need to know about the SWM8 is here:

DirecTV SWM 8 and SWM 5 Multiswitch Information
 

texasbrit

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Apr 12, 2006
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You must have missed the very first sentence of the thread -
I have four HR20s but existing SlimLine 5LNB is too limited for all the dual tuners.

I did miss that. So just add a WB68 multiswitch. That will give you eight connections. Or add an SWM8 stand-alone multiswitch, that will give you eight tuners plus give you the abilty to grow beyond eight.
 

yorktown

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Nov 10, 2009
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I did miss that. So just add a WB68 multiswitch. That will give you eight connections. Or add an SWM8 stand-alone multiswitch, that will give you eight tuners plus give you the abilty to grow beyond eight.

If it was me I'd get the SWM system so I didn't have to run any more wires inside or outside the house. It would be one wire from the SWM LNB on the dish to the SWM splitter in the house someplace, then one wire from the SWM splitter outputs to each DVR.
 

texasbrit

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If it was me I'd get the SWM system so I didn't have to run any more wires inside or outside the house. It would be one wire from the SWM LNB on the dish to the SWM splitter in the house someplace, then one wire from the SWM splitter outputs to each DVR.
Decision based on situation I guess. I would hate to be maxed out on the SWM tuner count and then for something to happen that means I needed a ninth tuner. Not that it's on the horizon right now, but if DirecTV brought out a four-tuner DVR like ATT then you would be completely stuck. Using four cables from the dish (that already exist in the OPs installation) and then using an SWM8 to give you single-wire capability inside the house would IMHO be a much better solution.
 

bgcarl

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 6, 2009
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Marietta, GA
Gosh, I think I hit a gold mine of info - really appreciate the inputs but now wish I understood all I know. Although one IRD has two lines already connected, I do not have two lines to the other IRDs and trying to avoid the tedious task of snaking more RG-6 in near-impossible paths to get to the IRDs. Hence, the lure of a SWM approach. As I understand the latest info, I would need a multiswitch (SWM8), power inserter and a four-way splitter to feed one RG-6 to each IRD. I currently have separate RG-6 lines from a garden variety splitter to an antenna for the off-air function. The illustration for the SWM8 indicates an off-air input but maybe that's not needed? BTW what's a MDU?

Thought this was going to be a cinch but if I can use the existing LNB to accomplish the end result (and cheaper) then its a better option. Thanks to all for your help.
 

texasbrit

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Apr 12, 2006
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Gosh, I think I hit a gold mine of info - really appreciate the inputs but now wish I understood all I know. Although one IRD has two lines already connected, I do not have two lines to the other IRDs and trying to avoid the tedious task of snaking more RG-6 in near-impossible paths to get to the IRDs. Hence, the lure of a SWM approach. As I understand the latest info, I would need a multiswitch (SWM8), power inserter and a four-way splitter to feed one RG-6 to each IRD. I currently have separate RG-6 lines from a garden variety splitter to an antenna for the off-air function. The illustration for the SWM8 indicates an off-air input but maybe that's not needed? BTW what's a MDU?

Thought this was going to be a cinch but if I can use the existing LNB to accomplish the end result (and cheaper) then its a better option. Thanks to all for your help.

Take the four cables from the dish, connect to an SWM8 stand-alone multiswitch. Take a cable from one of the two SWM outputs from the SWM8, connect to an SWS4 splitter, take one cable to each DVR. Put the power inserter on the cable from the power-passing port on the SWS4 to one of the DVRs.
You can also use both SWM outputs from the SWM8 and put a two-way splitter on each output instead of a four-way splitter on one output.
The SWM8 can also accept an off-air signal and pass that down the same cable; you then need diplexers at each DVR to split out the off-air signal. But if you already have off-air over separate cables I would stick to that if I were you.
An MDU is a MultiDwelling Unit like an apartment building. Newer MDU systems are based on using multiple SWM8 multiswitches.
 

bgcarl

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 6, 2009
20
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Marietta, GA
Been doing a lot of head scratching and it would seem that my best option would be to go with the SWM3 lnb (which is easy to get at and not all four cables go to a central point so rewiring would still be necessary.) The SWM8 would give me some future additional capability but quite sure the four cables from the 4-way splitter would be adequate. Also, I would assume there is some additional attenuation of the signals with something more than a 4-way splitter. Some pricing research indicates the SWM8 plus power supply plus splitter would cost more than the SWM3 lnb plus power supply plus 4-way spitter. Unless I'm missing something, anybody disagree?
Thanks to all the inputs - I learned a lot in the process.
 

rad

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If you NEVER think you'll need more then 8 tuners then the SWMLNB is a good choice. But if you ever think you'll go over 8 then may as way go with a SWiM8 now so you can expand in the future if needed.
 
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