Moving soon and SWM question

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VewDew

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Feb 4, 2004
167
0
Northern California
Hello,

I am moving soon (and not "Moving") and the new house we are looking at does not have multiple drops in locations for my DVR. I was going to use the mover connection, will they automatically put the swm equipment in or do I need to pay for extra cable runs?
 
There is really no way to know. Usually, if the job is too dificult to run two lines to the receiver, they will use a SWM. Although that is not a guarantee. If you have more that 5 tuners needed they usually will install a SWM, but again there is no way to know.
 
I am pretty sure it is treated like a new install would be treated. I am moving myself next week and I am not paying for the install. I didn't use the existing wiring the first time around and I am not using the existing wiring now. The existing wiring will be used for my closed circuit security camera network. I have had Dish, DirecTV, BHN, TWC, Paragon, Americast, Cablevision, and a couple other providers and the only one that ever made me pay for new wiring was FIOS. Unfortunately, where I am moving I will have to wait for FIOS again for a few months until it is available there but I'm sure they will make me pay for the drop installs again. I always have new wiring put in no matter what, even if I am not using the existing wiring. You don't know what kind of condition the existing stuff is in.

DirecTV won't.

But tip your installer well if they do a good job. I never even knew you were supposed to tip an installer until a few years ago from reading it on this site. I am in computer service and just about nobody tips me and it isn't expected. I do a good job, as I am referred to their friends and family and called back if they need me, so no jokes about me not being tipped because I don't do a good job, please. Most people don't tip service people of this nature but cable and satellite installers certainly appreciate it. Many act totally surprised when you do tip them. Many are underpaid.

Now if they come in there with an attitude and do the minimum, no, don't tip them, but if you think they did a good job, tip. And no way should you pay for wiring with DirecTV. If that has changed and I am expected to pay for my drops, I will turn them around and send them on their way. I'm sure cable would love to have my business.

One last thing. You should not have to re-sign your two year contract unless you add any boxes. I wanted to add one or two more HD-DVRs but was unwilling to reset my two year contract.
 
There is really no way to know. Usually, if the job is too dificult to run two lines to the receiver, they will use a SWM. Although that is not a guarantee. If you have more that 5 tuners needed they usually will install a SWM, but again there is no way to know.

Define a wiring job that is too difficult. Why would two lines be any more difficult to install than one. Easy... you run them side by side. So it sounds like you are implying that if they have to use the existing wiring and use SWM... stop right there. Many, many, many of us have other providers such as cable or at the very least cable Internet service which is tying up the existing line. So by default they have to run new wiring no matter what. I cannot see that two lines would be any harder than one.

Believe me, there is no wiring job that cannot be done. As a computer guy I outsource Ethernet and coax drop wiring and I have been told by three or four wiring guys a job cannot be done, only to have a fifth guy find a way. A customer may have to settle for some exposed wiring alongside the house but no job is too difficult for a good installer.

My advice: never use the existing wiring. Always have new wiring run. It is free most of the time and you are getting new cabling. Why chance it with old coax?
 
contact them and make a request for an swm install. can't hurt to ask ;) i rather have one wire per dvr than than two. if you ever had 4 dvrs that would mean 8 coax lines. i rather have a cleaner neater install.
 
Movers do not get SWM!

If you want SWM you will have to pay for it!

This is one stupid thing Direct does.

It really sucks when you are an installer and show up to a movers connection with 2 or 3 DVR's and several standard single tuner IRD's and they want you to use a Slimline and 1 or 2 6x8 switches. The sad part is these are houses that are finished and most of the time wired with 1 wire. I really don't understand why Direct refuses to use SWM?
 
another idea is just get one on ebay. i got a swm lnb for $30 new. well worth it! there are some listed between $30 and $45.
 
Movers do not get SWM!

If you want SWM you will have to pay for it!

This is one stupid thing Direct does.

It really sucks when you are an installer and show up to a movers connection with 2 or 3 DVR's and several standard single tuner IRD's and they want you to use a Slimline and 1 or 2 6x8 switches. The sad part is these are houses that are finished and most of the time wired with 1 wire. I really don't understand why Direct refuses to use SWM?
thanks for the info liquid. i know you're a pro at this and you're right it should be used period.
 
Directv techs do charge for wall fishes! They are NOT free or part of the "FREE" standard PROFESSIONAL installation!
 
$49.95 per floor, per wall fish (at least thats the going rate 'round here), otherwise expect wires on the outside of the house, coming up through the floor or however they can be ran to get to the room/tv.
 
I bought my SWM gear on E-Bay and it will go with me wherever I go. It's not a bad investment if you're in it for the long haul. It takes just a few minutes to re-wire a system.
 
I bought my SWM gear on E-Bay and it will go with me wherever I go. It's not a bad investment if you're in it for the long haul. It takes just a few minutes to re-wire a system.
:up:up
 
And no way should you pay for wiring with DirecTV. If that has changed and I am expected to pay for my drops, I will turn them around and send them on their way. I'm sure cable would love to have my business.

I did not read this part of your post the other day, so I would like to address it. Direct gives 125' of cable per drop. If you exceede that you will have to pay for it. and around here it happens alot. If you need it buried you have to pay for it.

Installers have been cut to the bone on payments from Dish and Direct. They are not going to give you the world anymore just to get you installed. Both providers have also gone to the HSP/RSP installation companies. These companies have made it so that almost no real installer will do the work at the price they pay any longer. What you have now are a bunch of newbies that have no experience, they slap the system in and move on to the next one. Sure there are a few that do a good job, but they don't last long as these companies are nothing more than meat grinders.
 
I did not read this part of your post the other day, so I would like to address it. Direct gives 125' of cable per drop. If you exceede that you will have to pay for it. and around here it happens alot. If you need it buried you have to pay for it.

Installers have been cut to the bone on payments from Dish and Direct. They are not going to give you the world anymore just to get you installed. Both providers have also gone to the HSP/RSP installation companies. These companies have made it so that almost no real installer will do the work at the price they pay any longer. What you have now are a bunch of newbies that have no experience, they slap the system in and move on to the next one. Sure there are a few that do a good job, but they don't last long as these companies are nothing more than meat grinders.

Is this any different than the cable companies? I am in the Tampa Bay region of Florida and if you have Bright House cable, it is rare to get a Bright House cable tech out for a new install. They outsource to an outfit called Knight Enterprises here. Some of the techs are horrible.

When I had DirecTV installed in spring of 2008, they drove up in a DirecTV van but it was a third party company like you speak of. The guy did an excellent job and he kept promoting his company, saying if I needed anything else as far as repair or whatever, call them direct. Maybe they do a good job so they know they will have your business again if you need something.

In 2007, when I had Dish installed, I got a eastern European fella that spoke horrible English. He too was a third party company. He was unprofessional in both his dress and his attitude, and of course the poor English. He drove a beater truck or van that was not marked with Dish Network.

In Nov 2008 I had FIOS installed. They were Verizon union employees and drove a Verizon truck. The tech came right out and told me I shouldn't have mentioned the "new wiring" on the phone, as he would have done it and reported it differently so I wouldn't have had to pay. but there was nothing he could do since I already asked for new wiring.

The bottom line is I always get new wiring. I am OK with them going along the side of the house under the eves or under the house. I don't expect anything fancy like fishing the walls. I know how hard running cable "can" be. But the way I see it, living in an under $300K house, do I really care if there is wire along the outside if it is nicely tucked under the gutter? I mean, if I had a million dollar home I'd probably get four coax drops run to each TV and Ethernet all over the house. I'd do it professionally, not by the DirecTV or cable installers. No offense to them, but like you yourself said, you aren't getting the best techs to do the job.

I am moving next week and I will settle for outside wiring to my two HD-DVRs. I'm not going to ask the guy to fish it or do anything fancy. But I do expect new wiring. I mean, I will have DirecTV and the cable company for Internet. That is two providers right there. I will also get FIOS again as soon as it is available at that address (3 providers using coax), and lastly, I will use the existing wiring for my closed circuit security camera network.

I will say that I have argued with techs from cable that thought they could use the existing wiring. They get annoyed that they have to run new, but you just tell them "that is in use already." Just because the previous owner used that wiring doesn't mean they have ownership of it. In the end they always install new.
 
Is this any different than the cable companies? I am in the Tampa Bay region of Florida and if you have Bright House cable, it is rare to get a Bright House cable tech out for a new install. They outsource to an outfit called Knight Enterprises here. Some of the techs are horrible.

When I had DirecTV installed in spring of 2008, they drove up in a DirecTV van but it was a third party company like you speak of. The guy did an excellent job and he kept promoting his company, saying if I needed anything else as far as repair or whatever, call them direct. Maybe they do a good job so they know they will have your business again if you need something.

In 2007, when I had Dish installed, I got a eastern European fella that spoke horrible English. He too was a third party company. He was unprofessional in both his dress and his attitude, and of course the poor English. He drove a beater truck or van that was not marked with Dish Network.

In Nov 2008 I had FIOS installed. They were Verizon union employees and drove a Verizon truck. The tech came right out and told me I shouldn't have mentioned the "new wiring" on the phone, as he would have done it and reported it differently so I wouldn't have had to pay. but there was nothing he could do since I already asked for new wiring.

The bottom line is I always get new wiring. I am OK with them going along the side of the house under the eves or under the house. I don't expect anything fancy like fishing the walls. I know how hard running cable "can" be. But the way I see it, living in an under $300K house, do I really care if there is wire along the outside if it is nicely tucked under the gutter? I mean, if I had a million dollar home I'd probably get four coax drops run to each TV and Ethernet all over the house. I'd do it professionally, not by the DirecTV or cable installers. No offense to them, but like you yourself said, you aren't getting the best techs to do the job.

I am moving next week and I will settle for outside wiring to my two HD-DVRs. I'm not going to ask the guy to fish it or do anything fancy. But I do expect new wiring. I mean, I will have DirecTV and the cable company for Internet. That is two providers right there. I will also get FIOS again as soon as it is available at that address (3 providers using coax), and lastly, I will use the existing wiring for my closed circuit security camera network.

I will say that I have argued with techs from cable that thought they could use the existing wiring. They get annoyed that they have to run new, but you just tell them "that is in use already." Just because the previous owner used that wiring doesn't mean they have ownership of it. In the end they always install new.

And you my friend are the type of cust that most installers hate, requesting new wiring when it is surely not needed in all cases. through the use of correct hardware and some knowledge you can absolutely run d* and cable through the same coax without any problems as long as it is not a swm install. i do this when custs keep cable internet all the time. you should know how we are paid, and we are not payed to rewire your entire house, im not going to bend over backwards for you. I would count your wire to the inch and charge you for everything i could.

just my two cents...
 
And you my friend are the type of cust that most installers hate, requesting new wiring when it is surely not needed in all cases. through the use of correct hardware and some knowledge you can absolutely run d* and cable through the same coax without any problems as long as it is not a swm install. i do this when custs keep cable internet all the time. you should know how we are paid, and we are not payed to rewire your entire house, im not going to bend over backwards for you. I would count your wire to the inch and charge you for everything i could.

just my two cents...

Maybe you didn't see my previous posts in this thread. I am one of the ones that encourages people to tip for a job well done. I am in service myself and realize most people do not tip. As the owner and service tech for what I do I don't expect it, but it is nice. I always tip for a job well done. So, come to my house and don't do what I ask and I will call and rip you a new one with your boss. Do a good job and I will tip you well. Your choice. Either way, somebody is getting the job done. It will be you or the guy they send out to finish your work.

Do you even care if the wiring in the house is from 1970? As the resident, I don't know if it is or isn't. So I want new.
 
Maybe you didn't see my previous posts in this thread. I am one of the ones that encourages people to tip for a job well done. I am in service myself and realize most people do not tip. As the owner and service tech for what I do I don't expect it, but it is nice. I always tip for a job well done. So, come to my house and don't do what I ask and I will call and rip you a new one with your boss. Do a good job and I will tip you well. Your choice. Either way, somebody is getting the job done. It will be you or the guy they send out to finish your work.

Do you even care if the wiring in the house is from 1970? As the resident, I don't know if it is or isn't. So I want new.

I really have no problem running new wire when it is needed. If the wire there is fine I have a real problem with it. We are installers, I know if the wire there will work or not.

Having a customer demand new wire just because, nah not gonna do it. Thats basically like you telling a mechanic umm your gonna change that oil for free, even though it only has 500 miles on it, because I said so.

I just don't get where people feel that it is their god given right to have all of this handed to them. Some people act like installers should bow down at their feet, because they let them come and give them service. Like that guy on Hell's Kitchen "I ain't no Biotch" (even though that really says he is a biotch because it's a double negative :D )
 
I really have no problem running new wire when it is needed. If the wire there is fine I have a real problem with it. We are installers, I know if the wire there will work or not.

Having a customer demand new wire just because, nah not gonna do it. Thats basically like you telling a mechanic umm your gonna change that oil for free, even though it only has 500 miles on it, because I said so.

I just don't get where people feel that it is their god given right to have all of this handed to them. Some people act like installers should bow down at their feet, because they let them come and give them service. Like that guy on Hell's Kitchen "I ain't no Biotch" (even though that really says he is a biotch because it's a double negative :D )

Look, as customers we have a ton of choices. There are two satellite companies available in the US and one or more cable companies in most cities (two plus FIOS in my city). It is up to the company to decide how much they are willing to bend over backwards for us. Most of them allow free installs with new wiring. If you are being paid too little that is between you and the company. Take it up with them, not the customer. You won't know if my existing wiring is good enough or not because I won't let you touch it. When you arrive to my house you will be instructed to run new wiring before you even see what is there. If you do a good job you will be tipped (which is no obligation of mine but something I am doing from one human to another because I know you are probably underpaid).

I have always had two providers. Currently it has been DirecTV and FIOS... actually three if you want to count the business Roadrunner account. But for TV I always have two with the premiums on the provider who has the most or most in HD these days. So, over the years I have had techs moan about not being able to use the existing wiring. "Sorry sir, I am keeping Bright House." If they pay you by the job and not the hour I can understand why you would be mad but again, that is between you and the company.

If you are so good, go out on your own. I know plenty of good wiring guys that install coax and Ethernet for a living with their own business and make darn good money at it. There is plenty of work. As a computer guy I refer a ton of work to cabling guys and I know some good ones that are VERY busy. They are making more than $400 or $500 a week, I can tell you that for sure. But what I have found that guys that work for the cable companies or satellite are often VERY lazy. They don't have what it takes to run their own business. They prefer working for a company. Well, you get paid by supply and demand like every other industry. If you are underpaid it is because there are 100 guys waiting to fill your shoes if you quit or get fired. You don't own the job, the job owns you.

Don't come over here and moan about my install. Just do it and get your tip and be glad you have a job in this economy.
 
Define a wiring job that is too difficult. Why would two lines be any more difficult to install than one. Easy... you run them side by side. So it sounds like you are implying that if they have to use the existing wiring and use SWM... stop right there. Many, many, many of us have other providers such as cable or at the very least cable Internet service which is tying up the existing line. So by default they have to run new wiring no matter what. I cannot see that two lines would be any harder than one.

Believe me, there is no wiring job that cannot be done. As a computer guy I outsource Ethernet and coax drop wiring and I have been told by three or four wiring guys a job cannot be done, only to have a fifth guy find a way. A customer may have to settle for some exposed wiring alongside the house but no job is too difficult for a good installer.

My advice: never use the existing wiring. Always have new wiring run. It is free most of the time and you are getting new cabling. Why chance it with old coax?

I had a new HD receiver added to my in-laws account. Installer gets there and sees that whoever installed the dish did not use a multiswitch and only has 2 lines running from the dish to a smart box, and they are being used by the DVR, all the way on the other side of the house. He immediately said that he would have to use a SWM because there was no way to do it without it taking him all day. Maybe difficult was a strong word, but if the installer got there and saw that the job was going to be a hard one and take a lot of time without a SWM, I can see where he may install a SWM. I know they are getting tougher in regards to using the SWM, but there are times it just makes sense. The installer Saturday said they don't give him too hard a time if the job will take a long time. Also. if it is a newer house, some of them have smartboxes in them which would allow two providers to be in there pretty easily. I have cable internet and phone and I have D* for sat. Not knowing his setup, I can't say for sure, but I am willing to bet that if his house is prewired and he only has one line going to the TV with the DVR and to run another line to it will be hard, he will get a SWM 70% of the time.
 
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