3 Ghz or Not

[rjfrandle]

Dish guy is here putting in Hopper 3. So did we ever decide if we need 3ghz RG-6 from the dish to the hopper 3, or is lower OK? How about from hub to 2 joeys?

 

[Tatertotmike]

My understanding from other places on these forums is that from the Hybrid LNB to the Hybrid Solo Node needs to be 3ghz. However from that point on they have said "what you have installed should work"

 

[JSheridan]

I'm told that the Hybrid specs require good quality RG6 rated at least 2.2 Ghz all the way from the LNB to the H3. In fact you don't even need a hub if you have no Joeys.

 

[ralfyguy]

My install went great with 10 year old RG6 2300MHZ rated. Only connectors were changed.
No issues whatsoever concerning that.

Although perhaps not every coax rated like that is equal to another.
I am just happy it worked for me.

 

[eddie willers]

My install went great with 10 year old RG6 2300MHZ rated. Only connectors were changed.
No issues whatsoever concerning that.

Although perhaps not every coax rated like that is equal to another.
I am just happy it worked for me.

Ditto.
10 year old "contracter cheap" RG6 with no rating worked perfectly fine.
IMO, unless it is a very, very long run of very, very cheap RG6 it ought to work.

 

[ralfyguy]

Ditto.
10 year old "contracter cheap" RG6 with no rating worked perfectly fine.
IMO, unless it is a very, very long run of very, very cheap RG6 it ought to work.

I really wanna know what actually physically makes the difference between a 2.3 GHZ and a 3 GHZ cable.

 

[zinc]

i had 2.8 and the installer decided to replace it with 3

 

[eddie willers]

I really wanna know what actually physically makes the difference between a 2.3 GHZ and a 3 GHZ cable.

The 3 GHZ means that it was tested and certified. That takes money. IMO (and IMO only) they don't really make different cables so the "2.2" you buy is probably no different than the more expensive tested and certified.

If it is 15 years old or less, and not some cheap Chinese knockoff but a decent cable to begin with, you ought to be good to go. Just make sure Dish swaps out the fittings (if need be). Don't forget the wall plate needs to have a 3 GHZ F connectors as well. Those are easily swapped out.

 

[sparc]

There are basically two different issues. What the tech is required to do as part of his job and what the customer can get away with on his own cutting corners.

The tech has installation requirements from Dish that usually require using 3GHz cable for certain parts of the system. If I remember correctly, a Dish tech is usually only allowed to use approved cable and connectors. Dish doesn't want a tech to get sent a few more times for trouble calls as it gets expensive for them and makes a bad impression on the customer.

Ideally, everything from the dish to the hopper should be properly rated 3Ghz cable. The joeys can use whatever. (If you're looking for a reliable and trouble free system long term.)

That being said, the technical specs may allow for slightly less on the coax from the hopper to the hub. As mentioned previously, just because RG6 hasn't been sweep tested to 3Ghz doesn't mean it isn't capable.

 

[JSheridan]

There are basically two different issues. What the tech is required to do as part of his job and what the customer can get away with on his own cutting corners.

The tech has installation requirements from Dish that usually require using 3GHz cable for certain parts of the system. If I remember correctly, a Dish tech is usually only allowed to use approved cable and connectors. Dish doesn't want a tech to get sent a few more times for trouble calls as it gets expensive for them and makes a bad impression on the customer.

Ideally, everything from the dish to the hopper should be properly rated 3Ghz cable. The joeys can use whatever. (If you're looking for a reliable and trouble free system long term.)

That being said, the technical specs may allow for slightly less on the coax from the hopper to the hub. As mentioned previously, just because RG6 hasn't been sweep tested to 3Ghz doesn't mean it isn't capable.

It's not a matter of what you can get away with. It's really very simple. Node systems require 2.2Ghz from the LNB to the node and 3Ghz from the node to the Hopper. The new Hybrid systems require 2.2Ghz from the LNB to the receiver. And that's all there is to it.

 

[sparc]

It's not a matter of what you can get away with. It's really very simple. Node systems require 2.2Ghz from the LNB to the node and 3Ghz from the node to the Hopper. The new Hybrid systems require 2.2Ghz from the LNB to the receiver. And that's all there is to it.

From a Dish installer tech's perspective, the specs are irrelevant. Dish's installation rules are more strict than those specs.

If you're doing anything else, it's the customer taking the risk on his own and cutting corners. (Or worse a tech cutting corners.)

A similar example would be the whole Joey 1.0 vs 2.0 issue. While Joey 1.0's may work on a technical level, the Joey 2.0's are required to be used via Dish's installation requirements for hopper 3.

There is a clear difference between Dish's installation rules vs technical specs.

 

[JSheridan]

From a Dish installer tech's perspective, the specs are irrelevant. Dish's installation rules are more strict than those specs.

If you're doing anything else, it's the customer taking the risk on his own and cutting corners. (Or worse a tech cutting corners.)

A similar example would be the whole Joey 1.0 vs 2.0 issue. While Joey 1.0's may work on a technical level, the Joey 2.0's are required to be used via Dish's installation requirements for hopper 3.

There is a clear difference between Dish's installation rules vs technical specs.

How are you taking a risk or cutting corners if you use wire that is specked for the job? Hybrid specs are 2.2Ghz. That's all that matters. Just like DirecTV SWM requires 2Mhz to 2.2Ghz. That's all it needs to work great. Putting in on 3Ghz wire isn't going to make it work any better.

Dish's install rules are all inclusive. They say 3Ghz wire so that techs that don't understand exactly what they're doing won't have a problem figuring it out. As an example, 211's only use up to 1450 Mhz. Dish still says to use 3Ghz wire. The ONLY current Dish configuration that REQUIRES 3Ghz is from a node to an H1 or an H2. We all use 3Ghz wire for almost everything now a days but that doesn't mean a piece of 2.2Ghz wire in a customer's wall isn't going to work great in the proper receiver configuration.

And FYI Joey 1's are not supported at all for H3 installs, period. there's no comparison between that and using wire that is properly specked for the job.

 

[kwindrem]

I'm told that the Hybrid specs require good quality RG6 rated at least 2.2 Ghz all the way from the LNB to the H3. In fact you don't even need a hub if you have no Joeys.

My installer insisted on replacing my 2.2 GHz cable (that was working on an H2) with 3 GHz cable. It does seem likely that 16 transponders will take less bandwidth than 3 complete satellites but don't know how they've done the frequency allocation.

My installer also said they had tried a H3-only install without a hub and it didn't work. That's only one sample though. It seems to me it should work without one but that's a guess.

 

[JSheridan]

My installer insisted on replacing my 2.2 GHz cable (that was working on an H2) with 3 GHz cable. It does seem likely that 16 transponders will take less bandwidth than 3 complete satellites but don't know how they've done the frequency allocation.

My installer also said they had tried a H3-only install without a hub and it didn't work. That's only one sample though. It seems to me it should work without one but that's a guess.

It's working fine right here with no hub so forgive me for believing my lying eyes instead of a Dish installer.

 

[kwindrem]

How are you taking a risk or cutting corners if you use wire that is specked for the job? Hybrid specs are 2.2Ghz. That's all that matters. Just like DirecTV SWM requires 2Mhz to 2.2Ghz. That's all it needs to work great. Putting in on 3Ghz wire isn't going to make it work any better.

Dish's install rules are all inclusive. They say 3Ghz wire so that techs that don't understand exactly what they're doing won't have a problem figuring it out. As an example, 211's only use up to 1450 Mhz. Dish still says to use 3Ghz wire. The ONLY current Dish configuration that REQUIRES 3Ghz is from a node to an H1 or an H2. We all use 3Ghz wire for almost everything now a days but that doesn't mean a piece of 2.2Ghz wire in a customer's wall isn't going to work great in the proper receiver configuration.

And FYI Joey 1's are not supported at all for H3 installs, period. there's no comparison between that and using wire that is properly specked for the job.

The rating on coax cable only indicates what the cable was TESTED for. The specs on RG6 are the same regardless of the sweep test that earns it a particular rating. 2.2 GHz rated cable will have exactly the same attenuation at 3 GHz as 3 GHz rated cable.

 

[kwindrem]

It's working fine right here with no hub so forgive me for believing my lying eyes instead of a Dish installer.

Thanks for confirming what I figured was the case. I only have the H3 and was considering asking them to try without, but they needed a splice between the cable down from the dish with messenger wire to the regular cable they ran under the house anyway so I let it be. They did terminate the MOCA ports and it gives me a handy point to connect Joey(s) in the future if that happens.

 

[sparc]

They say 3Ghz wire so that techs that don't understand exactly what they're doing won't have a problem figuring it out.

That's the whole point. The techs don't have to think on their own and cut corners. They just do the job per the installation rules and the customer doesn't have to worry about what other crappy things the tech might have cut corners on. Fewer trouble calls in the future.

And FYI Joey 1's are not supported at all for H3 installs, period. there's no comparison between that and using wire that is properly specked for the job.

I believe Scott is the one who indicated that Joey 1.0's could work on a technical level, but the techs are forced per installation rules to Joey 2.0. So yeah, very comparable and that's why there are install rules vs whatever semantics you want argue about with specs.

 

[JSheridan]

That's the whole point. The techs don't have to think on their own and cut corners. They just do the job per the installation rules and the customer doesn't have to worry about what other crappy things the tech might have cut corners on. Fewer trouble calls in the future.

I believe Scott is the one who indicated that Joey 1.0's could work on a technical level, but the techs are forced per installation rules to Joey 2.0. So yeah, very comparable and that's why there are install rules vs whatever semantics you want argue about with specs.

It's NOT CUTTING CORNERS to use the right materials!!

The Joey 1 software is old and/or missing from the H3's so it's not an option.

Let me guess, you're a Dish installer.

 

[voodooevil]

so if i have
1 hopper and 1 joey....and from the sat to the house RG6 is used...but from inside the housel to my receivers are the 59 cable (USA MADE). SO IF MY HOPPER AND JOEY Work now, the hopper 3 and 4k joey shouls work too?

 

[JSheridan]

so if i have
1 hopper and 1 joey....and from the sat to the house RG6 is used...but from inside the housel to my receivers are the 59 cable (USA MADE). SO IF MY HOPPER AND JOEY Work now, the hopper 3 and 4k joey shouls work too?

You should never use RG59 for a Hopper.