ATSC 3.0 DRM Encryption

[Comptech]

Here in CT the stations didn’t want to go to 3.0 and the FCC forced them to go 3.0. All are broadcasting from the same transmitter. (ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox)

they now have a few years to update their own transmitters to 3.0 and move back to their frequencies.

It i nice right now that we can get them of one tower,l but let's see how it play's out.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I don’t believe that ATSC 3.0 is going to die. The full adoption may take a while but the advantages that it offers in compression and multipath reception over ATSC 1.0 will eventually win out. Plus since it has a digital component it allows broadcasts to mobile devices.

I do believe that broadcasters will use encryption to control DVR use. Remember that TV sets that have ATSC 3.0 tuners have been able to receive the encrypted broadcasts. It is the set top boxes that offer DVR capabilities that have not yet been able to decode the encrypted broadcasts. They can make us watch commercials by eliminating skip forward.

I believe that once the ATSC 1.0 broadcasts are removed you will see more of the advertised features of ATSC 3.0 such as 4K broadcasts.


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unless they use the bandwidth to make the sub channels go HD and or add PAY HD channels.

 

[Trip]

used to improve ATSC 1.0, like upgrading ATSC 1.0 from a broadcast standard that only works while stationary, to a broadcast standard that works while both stationary and mobile, for example...

You're in luck. There's a new standard that fixes that problem. It's called ATSC 3.0.

- Trip

 

[Justin Hill]

You're in luck. There's a new standard that fixes that problem. It's called ATSC 3.0.

- Trip

Okay...

 

[Justin Hill]

Good things come to those who wait...

I'm eager to see how much better the new NextGen TV standard is at handling large subchannel multiplexes that contain a mix of unencrypted free TV, encrypted paid premium TV and unencrypted FM radio station subchannels...

 

[primestar31]

WNEM CBS owned by Gray ATSC 3.0 is now encrypted. Flint-Saginaw-Bay City Michigan DMA

 

[primestar31]

WNEM CBS owned by Gray ATSC 3.0 is now encrypted. Flint-Saginaw-Bay City Michigan DMA

That's odd, WNEM must have been testing encryption yesterday, because they are UN-encrypted again! However, weeks ago I contacted BOTH my federal and state reps, and told them about the providers encryption jag, and mentioned the actual local stations hadn't encrypted as of yet.

I wonder if somebody made a phone call, or this was just a fluke or something?

 

[ancient]

I have used DVRs for years but what's the point of recording something I can easily stream? I guess my TIVO Roamios days are numbered.

Depends on if you are content with watching a show once and then not ever being able to see it again, at least not conveniently. The point of recording something is that anything streaming can be gone tomorrow or next week or next month. As long as you have a recording you can watch it again, whenever you want. Some people never want to watch anything a second time, so the only benefit of recording for them would be time shifting, so they don't miss a show because they were not around to watch it at the appointed air time (and so you can skip the commercials!)

 

[navychop]

What you can stream today may not be available tomorrow.

 

[ancient]

Every form of copy protection did little to deter copyright infringement issues and such...
There were ways for people with good code-cracking skills to bypass that stuff entirely...

I am not really an electronics person. I can maybe replace a blown capacitor (sometimes) but that's about it. I do not understand digital circuits. So I have a question.

In every modern TV, there is an LED display, and there are speakers. Now back in the old days of tube TV's you could get the audio from a TV speaker into a tape recorder, I believe that is partly how some of the "missing" episodes of Dr. Who were reconstructed, because people had saved the audio to tape in the days before home VCRs. So tapping into the audio is definitely possible. My question is about the video. I assume all TV receivers use more or less standard LED panels. Would it not be POSSIBLE to intercept the signals being fed to the LED panel and convert those back to a video stream?

I understand that this is not ideal for video OR audio because in both cases the TV receiver settings will affect the output. Ideally, you'd want to intercept the video and audio BEFORE any settings have been applied, to get as close to what was originally broadcast as possible, but as long as it looks and sounds decent it would work. My point is that you would not even need good code cracking skills if you had digital hardware skills, you could just build an addon circuit for the TV that would intercept the audio signals going to the speakers, and the video going to the LED panel, and translate those back to streaming audio and video that could be recorded. Then all you would need is a way to turn on the TV and change to the correct channel at the appointed time.

My point being that where there is a will there is a way, perhaps.

 

[primestar31]

Would it not be POSSIBLE to intercept the signals being fed to the LED panel and convert those back to a video stream?

I believe that is possible. If so, the pirates will do it.

 

[dweber]

Analog video, both composite (yellow) and component (red, green, blue) can be captured and recorded. Digital video (hdmi) can use HDCP to prevent capture. That is why broadcasters want everyone to use hdmi for video output.
There are devices that will remove the HDCP component from the HDMI signal but that is another device you would need to buy.

Here is a video that explains HDCP


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_YiECKlPuE

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[primestar31]

Analog video, both composite (yellow) and component (red, green, blue) can be captured and recorded. Digital video (hdmi) can use HDCP to prevent capture. That is why broadcasters want everyone to use hdmi for video output.
There are devices that will remove the HDCP component from the HDMI signal but that is another device you would need to buy.

Here is a video that explains HDCP


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_YiECKlPuE

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, but BEFORE HDMI output, the signal would have to already be decrypted by Widevine. IF they are going to allow recordings, you can be assured of these things:

1: They'll be encrypted from end to end
2: The programs will be LOCKED to the tuner device/hard-drive combination used to receive, decode, and record them
3: That means that they will ONLY be watchable through that specific device chain.
4: There's a timing component for playback, which is so tight, it will NOT allow you to rebroadcast them beyond your internal LAN. Meaning: NO remote viewing for devices that previously allowed that
5: Recordings will be watermarked/tagged, so they can be tracked IF somehow they get transferred to where they "don't belong"

The above is 100% what we know NOW.

Speculation also is, that commercials will be UN-skippable, and that recorded programs might have a kill-date programmed into them where they will become unwatchable.

 

[Jim5506]

There are already artifices out there that can capture almost any video stream.

 

[dweber]

There are already artifices out there that can capture almost any video stream.

The point is that with ATSC 3.0 encryption the signal must be decrypted by the tuner unlike HDCP which encrypts the digital video output. So if the tuner does not have the correct decryption you won’t even have a video signal to decrypt and capture.

 

[Jim5506]

The point is that with ATSC 3.0 encryption the signal must be decrypted by the tuner unlike HDCP which encrypts the digital video output. So if the tuner does not have the correct decryption you won’t even have a video signal to decrypt and capture.

My reference was unclear. I was referring to streaming content off the old interweb. I have ZERO interest in ATSC 3.0 and my DMA AFAIK has no plans to implement it.

 

[primestar31]

Sign the petition to eliminate DRM/Encryption, can't hurt, and may help: Sign the Petition

 

[Justin Hill]

I learned, like everyone else, that these DRM encryptions do nothing more than give the middle finger to free broadcast TV.
This is not good for the future of free broadcast TV. Please tell the FCC that free broadcast TV matters.
I don't want local TV news to head in the same direction that many newspapers went...

 

[N6BY]

.... I have ZERO interest in ATSC 3.0 and my DMA AFAIK has no plans to implement it.

I feel the same way. I don't need the 4K video that ATSC 3.0 may eventually deliver. To my eyes 4K and 2K look about the same.

Unfortunately my DMA already has an ATSC 3.0 lighthouse station, so it looks like 3.0 is in my future.

 

[dweber]

Here is the latest update on July 7 from Silicondust concerning their attempt to implement Decryption.

The officially approved way to do DRM on a video gateway product is to convert the encryption to DTCP2. We 100% can do this but it isn't useful if your goal is to watch TV. DTCP2 rules do not allow for an app to implement DTCP2 - it has to be part of the player-device OS and backed by hardware security. DTCP2 is not supported on Windows, is not supported on Mac, is not supported on Roku, is not supported on any Android products you can buy today, is not supported on any Fire TV products you can buy today, is not supported on iPhone/iPad, is not supported on XBox, is not support by LG, is not supported by Samsung, and is not supported by any ATSC 3.0 televisions you can buy today. A3SA couldn't name a single player device that would allow you to watch TV using DTCP2.

Instead we have been working with A3SA on an approach that meets their requirements while also meeting our ask that people can watch TV (and record TV).

The approach has gone through many iterations rolling in the varying requirements of the different key platforms. We received preliminary approval last Friday to move forward with a change required to support a key platform that didn't fit the approach that had previously been preliminarily approved. We are proving the implementation out now in prep for the security review.

If there was a spec that could be implemented we would have been finished months ago. TV stations jumped the gun by enabling encryption before there was a (useful) spec for gateway products to implement ATSC 3.0 DRM support.

We are leading the way behind the scenes and pushing for ATSC 3.0 to be usable. We are on your side.