Cablevision Disavows Dolan and Dish Offers No Aid

Eric

Ericpd welcome to voom. I also have a Mitsubishi 65813 diamond and i just am dazzled watching voom in all its glory. Don't worry about all this back and forth corporate politics, at the end of the day voom will be there in all its glory. Enjoy the best experience in television. Voom brings your Mitsubishi to life.

If i were you read the other forums on programming etc, ignore this rat race. We have been on this pendulum for the last four months and voom is still there. So relax, forget the tension and enjoy voom.
 
I understand that E didn't buy the customers...my point was that the FCC should require whoever buys the SATELLITE to "take care of" the customers served by that satellite. The FCC needs to consider how current Voom customers and the industry at large will be impacted by the sale of this satellite...especially to someone like Charlie/Echostar.



justalurker said:
E* didn't buy the customers, just the satellite, an uplink and related licenses. E* has zero obligation to V* customers.

JL
 
exactly same stuff E is doing now is same stuff they whined and cried about D** doing to them when they started they are trying to shove out any threat of competiton shame if voom shuts down by fall/winter of this coming year RCA will have a very affordable hdtv out and I am sure voom would take off alot between then and now.


E knows it also and they know they will not have enough hd for them and will lose ppl and market until they do so easier to shove Voom out of the way that way they are stuck waiting for D** and E to get more hd up
 
ksload said:
I understand that E didn't buy the customers...
my point was that the FCC should require whoever buys the SATELLITE to "take care of" the customers served by that satellite.
Why? The customers remain the property and responsibilty of Cablevision. Voom HD LLC has offered to purchase those customers and other remaining "RainbowDBS" assets.

Imagine a store that is the only one in town that sells a unique product. The store owner decides to sell the store to a competitor, but does not sell the store's inventory to that competitor. Is the new store owner required to sell that unique product?

In E*'s case they are NOT being offered the unique product TO continue to sell.

E* has grown to over 11 million customers and posted profits during the year that V* has been available. V* isn't competition worth crushing. E* wants the capacity and underutilized satellite, not to 'kill Voom'.

JL
 
HDTV has not taken off as early as projected is a huge reason why Voom did not see alot of growth last year.HDTV is becoming slowly more mainstream right now and will over this coming year.I am still not too worried about it FCC still has to approve it and if things get tied up in legal works who knows when if evcer E will get the satelitte probly can be dragged out till there other ones are launched is my guess.Either way even if E bought Voom I would not go back to it I will gladly take D** over anything Charlie ever does.


Voom is not serious compeition atm I will give you that but I think E and D** are both aware they very well could be soon as HDTV's become alot cheaper in the fall and for christmas season.
 
AxE said:
But like I said before in another thread, it would be a very smart business move for Ergen anyway. Keep the price lower and keep all V* hd programming available. 46,00 new customers in one pop.

Yep Axe,, I agree. It makes more sense to bring 40,000 in the fold than throw them out on the street.
 
I would expect that if E* were to acquire any VOOM programming, they would consolidate a great deal of it to reduce production costs.

Also, since E* has a HD PVR, there would not be such a need for so many channels running repetetive programming.
 
That's my point....VOOM LLC can't serve its customers without the satellite. That should be taken into consideration when determining if the sale will be approved. At the time Cablevision offered the bird to Dish, its intent was to shut down Voom.

VOOM may not be a financial competitor to Dish at this time, but the availability of VOOM and its HD content has been a thorn in Charlie's side since he doesn't want to offer HD. I was a dish subscriber since Dec 1996 and left for VOOM.

Charlie could have offered to buy the customer base from Voom, still gaining capacity since he wouldn't need to transmit the SD content over again, gaining 40,000 customers in one swoop AND offer his existing customers more HD content.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if the sale of the satellite isn't blocked, Voom will cease to exist. How does that benefit anyone except Echostar? Your store analogy isn't applicable since patrons of the previous owner can go buy those products from OTHER stores. Voom customers who want HD don't have a viable alternative unless Charlie guarantees that the capacity will be used for HD. I suspect it's more likely that the capacity will be used for more foreign language programming and interactive applications (ala racetrack betting, online games, karoke, etc)

justalurker said:
Why? The customers remain the property and responsibilty of Cablevision. Voom HD LLC has offered to purchase those customers and other remaining "RainbowDBS" assets.

Imagine a store that is the only one in town that sells a unique product. The store owner decides to sell the store to a competitor, but does not sell the store's inventory to that competitor. Is the new store owner required to sell that unique product?

In E*'s case they are NOT being offered the unique product TO continue to sell.

E* has grown to over 11 million customers and posted profits during the year that V* has been available. V* isn't competition worth crushing. E* wants the capacity and underutilized satellite, not to 'kill Voom'.

JL
 
justalurker thats what i was gonna say oh well you stated it better than i could of
 
ksload said:
That's my point....VOOM LLC can't serve its customers without the satellite.
If there is such entity in existence when the FCC makes it's decision it may be taken in to consideration. But there is a difference between the FCC denying the license transfer (in the hope that Cablevision would then sell the licenses and satellite to Voom HD LLC for their venture) and forcing E* to carry the channels for Voom.

Your suggestion of whoever buys the SATELLITE to "take care of" the customers served by that satellite is improper if E* obtains the licenses and irrelevant if Voom HD LLC obtains the licenses. Or are you thinking that the FCC would approve the transfer of ownership but require them to carry Voom channels? (Which is more in line with the suggestion you made in this thread.)

BTW: You missed in the anology that the company that sold the store was the only store that sold the unique product. Just as Cablevision/Voom is the only "store" that sells Voom21 channels.

JL
 
I agree with the previous posts, E* has no obligation to the subscribers of V*. But upon the sale of the satellite, unless some deal is made to lease space off some other bird and figure out what they are going to do with the uplink, V* is going to lose more money faster than it should though. Face it, V* sold their new uplink center they just built so they still have the present center, upon approval and the transfer, even if the lease happens I doubt they will use an in house uplink center. Somewhere there was mention that V* is going to sell the company off so think about it, best way to recoup losses is if the company goes down under is to go through and auction off rights to V* original programming. That way the competitive market is still there, but it would be the best way to cut the cord.
 
CV had no choice but to disavow Mr. Dolan's grievance with the FCC. The fact that Mr. Dolan even filed such a grievance is virtually unheard of and highly improper on HIS side. He is the Chairman of the Board of a corporation (already under an informal SEC investigation I might add over this whole VOOM spin-off) that entered into a LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT with E*. The board APPROVED the entering into of that agreement. Obviously, for the Chairman of the Board of CV to then challenge that very same agreement leaves CV open to major legal and financial repercussions to E*. Definately a CYA move on CV's part, but one that had to be done for the corporation's protection.

While I appreciate VOOM customers have the desire to maintain your service, Cablevision has a responsibility to its shareholders, and to its employees (of which CV has almost as many employees as it does VOOM customers), AND to its existing 3 MILLION cable customers.

While VOOM21 is nice.. it's not the do-all, end-all of HD programming for the future. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Dolan is behind the times in providing satellite service overall.. E* and D* already have that market covered quite nicely and in order for VOOM to get the 250K+ customers it needs to in order to even hit a yearly break-even, never mind a profit.. it has to offer something substantially more beneficial to E* and D* customers than what they already have. VOOM just doesn't have the draw for that.

As to programming, Dolan is slightly ahead of his time, but in order to really "pitch" the programming, you have to have customers. It's a vicious cycle.

Ultimately, IMHO, Voom will be shut down permanently. The damage this is doing to CV's reputation as a company, and the visibility as this company as a potential governance problem is too great for the board members to allow to continue. Again, there are millions of customers and stockholders and thousands upon thousands of employees to consider... and while Dolan's past brilliance in bringing innovative products to market is commendable and practically legendary, in this scenario, again imho, he is being incredibly short-sighted and frankly, obtuse, and is using VOOM as a personal weapon against his son, while jeopardizing the future of the CV business as a whole. Ultimately, you VOOM subscribers will be able to transfer your service to another provider. You will also ultimately get lots of HD channels, you will just need to have just a teensy bit of patience. VOOM/Cablevision employees are the ones who will suffer for this little game of "I'm a dog with a bone" between James and Charles Dolan... and no one in these boards really seems to pay attention to any of THEM, all you all seem to care about is how many channels of HD you can watch on your $1,000+ television sets... when the VOOM employees lose their jobs, they'll be lucky to find another, if they even CAN find another (particularly with the CV name on their resumes) and they won't be able to afford to buy HD televisions (99% of VOOM employees don't have HDTV, but of course James and Charles do).
 
Oh no another "I think Voom should die" person. Go away Partypooper! :D

You knock Vooms 21 HD movies channels but can you show me where another service offers as much HD programing? I didnt think so. Could it be better, of course but hell with all the crap going on it's not like they, Voom, can just focus on programing right now. Cable companies in the past, before was Sat competion, really put the screws to us consummers. Don't expect me to rush out now and say Oh yeah Cable comp needs saving so lets get rid of what consumers actually want and force em to take our offerings again. Not gonna happen. Will Voom survive? I really don't know but hope so because as long as it does I'll stay with em and also with them in existance it could & should encourage/force the others like D* & E* to develope more HD as competitors.
 
The POINT is that you DO have alternative options to VOOM. Do they offer as much HD-specific programming, NO! I didn't say that, what I said is that you might need to be PATIENT in getting programming such that VOOM offers today.

And I'm not a "I think VOOM should die person". I'm merely saying that I don't think VOOM is a viable product TO survive. It lacks the right marketplace, market share, marketing technique, and overall customer interest. There are over 200 million television watching homes in the United States. Of those, how many are satellite? Maybe 10%. Of that 10%, how many are HD homes? Probably 1%. How many years will it be before the AVERAGE (or sub-average for that matter) consumer will be able to AFFORD to take advantage of HD programming? Who knows, but I'd guess a minimum of 5-10 years, closer to the 10 year range.

It just gets a little tiring to hear all you folks sulk and whine about losing your precious programming when there are hundreds of people who wait, daily, to see if they even have jobs, never mind owning an HD television with VOOM programming.

If you're all so concerned with the health of VOOM, why don't you each go out and buy 5 of your friends HD televisions and then sign them up for VOOM? Of the 40,000 of you, if every one of you did that, VOOM would have 200,000 customers...
 
So, based on "guesstimates, supposition and your imagination" we should take your numbers as fact? I DONT THINK SO, hehe. I love that your so "bleeding heart" for employees. Sad thing is that in this day and age NO job is garunteed to last. Companies fold, do layoffs etc all the time, especially if it improves thier bottom line. Do I want to see Vooms employee's out of work? HELL NO! I want them to have their jobs till Gabriel blows his horn. Your the one saying think about the employee's well I am. If Voom stays then thier jobs do too. If voom can improve then thier jobs are even more secure. Basically you can dance around the issues all you want. Oh and your
If you're all so concerned with the health of VOOM, why don't you each go out and buy 5 of your friends HD televisions and then sign them up for VOOM? Of the 40,000 of you, if every one of you did that, VOOM would have 200,000 customers...
is BS. It took me & mine a long time to save to get our system, almost sounds like you dont have one and want a handout lol
 
will0471 said:
CV had no choice but to disavow Mr. Dolan's grievance with the FCC. The fact that Mr. Dolan even filed such a grievance is virtually unheard of and highly improper on HIS side. He is the Chairman of the Board of a corporation (already under an informal SEC investigation I might add over this whole VOOM spin-off) that entered into a LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT with E*. The board APPROVED the entering into of that agreement. Obviously, for the Chairman of the Board of CV to then challenge that very same agreement leaves CV open to major legal and financial repercussions to E*. Definately a CYA move on CV's part, but one that had to be done for the corporation's protection.

While I appreciate VOOM customers have the desire to maintain your service, Cablevision has a responsibility to its shareholders, and to its employees (of which CV has almost as many employees as it does VOOM customers), AND to its existing 3 MILLION cable customers.

While VOOM21 is nice.. it's not the do-all, end-all of HD programming for the future. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Dolan is behind the times in providing satellite service overall.. E* and D* already have that market covered quite nicely and in order for VOOM to get the 250K+ customers it needs to in order to even hit a yearly break-even, never mind a profit.. it has to offer something substantially more beneficial to E* and D* customers than what they already have. VOOM just doesn't have the draw for that.

As to programming, Dolan is slightly ahead of his time, but in order to really "pitch" the programming, you have to have customers. It's a vicious cycle.

Ultimately, IMHO, Voom will be shut down permanently. The damage this is doing to CV's reputation as a company, and the visibility as this company as a potential governance problem is too great for the board members to allow to continue. Again, there are millions of customers and stockholders and thousands upon thousands of employees to consider... and while Dolan's past brilliance in bringing innovative products to market is commendable and practically legendary, in this scenario, again imho, he is being incredibly short-sighted and frankly, obtuse, and is using VOOM as a personal weapon against his son, while jeopardizing the future of the CV business as a whole. Ultimately, you VOOM subscribers will be able to transfer your service to another provider. You will also ultimately get lots of HD channels, you will just need to have just a teensy bit of patience. VOOM/Cablevision employees are the ones who will suffer for this little game of "I'm a dog with a bone" between James and Charles Dolan... and no one in these boards really seems to pay attention to any of THEM, all you all seem to care about is how many channels of HD you can watch on your $1,000+ television sets... when the VOOM employees lose their jobs, they'll be lucky to find another, if they even CAN find another (particularly with the CV name on their resumes) and they won't be able to afford to buy HD televisions (99% of VOOM employees don't have HDTV, but of course James and Charles do).

This is the biggest bunch of crap I have read in a long time. Do you just talk to talk. You are saying gibberish

1) Voom is VIABLE. It is where it is all going and ahead of its time
2) C.Dolan WANTS to buy it, give Cablevision MORE $$$ then if they shut it down and paid to do so.

So, why is someone wanting to help shareholders *AND* create/continue a service ahead of its time, the villan.

Why should voom shut down, to satisfy you inherent need for attention and to say 'I told you so'?

You don't like voom, GET OOF MY GROUPS and CANCEL YOUR SERVICE! Go back to Cable and get 5 hd channels, or DTv and get 7, OH BOY! Now, thats HD! :)

Phil
 
The one thing I don't understand, is the depth of the hatred for VOOM, running through some of these trolls posts. Somehow the very excitance of Voom is a personal affront to them. Are we of the 40,000 , threated their multi-million sub base to D* and E* and we could bring them down? No.

Will their lives be better if VOOM closes down? Will their families be safer? Will their taxers be lower if VOOM goes away? Do they hate Pepsico because they prefer Coke?

We're not choosing a President here. We're just picking a satellite provider. Don't like VOOM? Don't by it.

It truly is that simple. You can go back to lives VOOM doomers. We mean you no harm. Spend your time writing letters to congress or sometime that truly affects you.

We're talking television here.
 
Thats the problem though E and D both know within 6-8 months when prices on HDTV drops with new rca units coming out Voom is gonna be a very serious threat to them also alot of them simply cannot afford to switch to voom for whatever reason and they are jealous they are stuck with Dish and there crappy selection of HD but have invested so much money into dish with dvr and such they cannot justify getting out of it and movig to Voom.
 
philhu said:
This is the biggest bunch of crap I have read in a long time. Do you just talk to talk. You are saying gibberish

1) Voom is VIABLE. It is where it is all going and ahead of its time
2) C.Dolan WANTS to buy it, give Cablevision MORE $$$ then if they shut it down and paid to do so.

So, why is someone wanting to help shareholders *AND* create/continue a service ahead of its time, the villan.

Why should voom shut down, to satisfy you inherent need for attention and to say 'I told you so'?

You don't like voom, GET OOF MY GROUPS and CANCEL YOUR SERVICE! Go back to Cable and get 5 hd channels, or DTv and get 7, OH BOY! Now, thats HD! :)

Phil



phil,

1. voOm is not a VIABLE entity, it is and has bled truck loads of money and is a drain on the parent companys stock
2 how do you know how much voon is worth?? a 400 million dollar price has been touted . cvc could probably write off that much in tax losses if it was shut down. it could also sell the rights to the planned sats "on order" to another company. it could sell off the content studios, which i am sure are worth a lot of cash. voom could be worth 2 times that 400 million figure if sold off to the highest bidders. that is what the board has to consider in a selling price, if it doesn't, the lawsuits and SEC defense costs alone could destroy cvc.....think ADELPHIA, and rigas thought he was above the stockholders, and he was also the biggest shareholder in that company. dolan sr is treading on VERY thin ice
 

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