Care and Feeding of a 12 foot Paraclipse...

[Mauiguy]

Stogie,

. Supposedly the best measurements are the ones listed on the "modified polar mount tracking angles" list. They are designed to allow for the alignment issues when setting for true south, but being above the equator. I guess the way they work is to allow better tracking towards the ends of the arc.

I do not know your latitude, but when using that chart, my exact latitude was not listed because it is between some of those measurments. I am at latitude 20.9 degrees north.

With an error of only .25 of a degree having the potential to create problems, I did the math to to get a closer meqsurement than using latitude 21 degrees.

I must say i am pleased that some one made a chart, because i never did get to the math levels to be able to figure out how to aim one of these....

I looked at those numbers and not knowing your exact location i do not know if they agree with the attached chart.

Now here is where I am beginning to become more confused than my regular state. Looking again at your chart I see a number that is called the "elevation angle". It is a total of the polar axis angle and the declination.

I am going to go out on a limb and possibly look really stupid here. (what's new?)

On my dish I set the actual elevation to the angle specified on the polar mount chart. Then I set the declination angle to the amount set on that same chart.

Never did I add the declination to my elevation and set that as the true elevation then set the declination angle.

If I did that, I would be aimed about three degrees higher than I am now. I see in your case it could be about a five degree difference.

Years back i actually sent in for the "skyvision installation package" and they did a chart which told me to set my elevation at 69 degrees, which is really 21 degrees and that would be real close to my latitude.

No where did they ever indicate that I should be at 72 degrees which would be my latitude combined with my declination....

As my last comment on this elevation thing, i offer that setting my elevation to my latitude has always resulted in my needing to adjust the elevation downward ever so slightly when fine tuning the dish. (we are talking about one sixth of a turn on my turnbuckles)

I have never had to add elevation to get my highest satellite which would be an indicator that adding the polar axis angle to the declination angle is the correct procedure.

Now I beg anyone to please offer comments because I may be more than two degrees of elevation off if I am wrong....

Have a great day....

 

[linuxman]

Now here is where I am beginning to become more confused than my regular state. Looking again at your chart I see a number that is called the "elevation angle". It is a total of the polar axis angle and the declination.

I am going to go out on a limb and possibly look really stupid here. (what's new?)

On my dish I set the actual elevation to the angle specified on the polar mount chart. Then I set the declination angle to the amount set on that same chart.

Never did I add the declination to my elevation and set that as the true elevation then set the declination angle.

If I did that, I would be aimed about three degrees higher than I am now. I see in your case it could be about a five degree difference.

Years back i actually sent in for the "skyvision installation package" and they did a chart which told me to set my elevation at 69 degrees, which is really 21 degrees and that would be real close to my latitude.

No where did they ever indicate that I should be at 72 degrees which would be my latitude combined with my declination....

As my last comment on this elevation thing, i offer that setting my elevation to my latitude has always resulted in my needing to adjust the elevation downward ever so slightly when fine tuning the dish. (we are talking about one sixth of a turn on my turnbuckles)

I have never had to add elevation to get my highest satellite which would be an indicator that adding the polar axis angle to the declination angle is the correct procedure.

Now I beg anyone to please offer comments because I may be more than two degrees of elevation off if I am wrong....

Have a great day....

When I first started out, I was confused by some charts that had the total elevation, and I had to subtract the declination to know where the "polar axis angle" should be.

You are correct, the elevation should be what you measure on the axis bar, and then add in the declination.

This installer was probably using some charts that had it the other way around, and his "elevation angle" is simply a total of the axis/elevation plus the declination.

 

[stogie5150]

Stogie,

. Supposedly the best measurements are the ones listed on the "modified polar mount tracking angles" list. They are designed to allow for the alignment issues when setting for true south, but being above the equator. I guess the way they work is to allow better tracking towards the ends of the arc.

I do not know your latitude, but when using that chart, my exact latitude was not listed because it is between some of those measurments. I am at latitude 20.9 degrees north.

With an error of only .25 of a degree having the potential to create problems, I did the math to to get a closer meqsurement than using latitude 21 degrees.

I must say i am pleased that some one made a chart, because i never did get to the math levels to be able to figure out how to aim one of these....

I looked at those numbers and not knowing your exact location i do not know if they agree with the attached chart.

My latitude is as listed on the attachment. 30 degrees 21 minutes. Confirmed by my handheld GPS. So I set the bracket underneath the motor to 30.93 (well,close anyway I got it close to 31 as I could) and then put the inclinometer on the face of the dish just like we talked about and moved the declination to the 35.38 ( again, more or less analog error 35.5 would be my best guess, but then who knows if my construction inclinometer is right or not).

I'll know more when I get the digital inclinometer. I talked to Linuxman on the phone and he agrees that I am NOT aimed right just yet. But when I get that digital tool I should be a LOT closer.

Or not. LOL

 

[Mauiguy]

When I first started out, I was confused by some charts that had the total elevation, and I had to subtract the declination to know where the "polar axis angle" should be.

You are correct, the elevation should be what you measure on the axis bar, and then add in the declination.

This installer was probably using some charts that had it the other way around, and his "elevation angle" is simply a total of the axis/elevation plus the declination.

Whew, now I can stop drinking the pepto bismol.

For Stogie:

I think you will find that with the digital level you will be better able to set the angles. I used one of thos analog guages before too, and the degree markings are so close on mine that there is no way I could prove that i was within a quarter of a degree.

At least with the digital I can convince myself that I am within a tenth (or so) of a degree. it may not really be that accurate, but the numbers say so and therefore i feel better about it.... lol

 

[stogie5150]

Well, I got my level today, and peaked it up. It did much better. I now have 87 quality on the DVB-S2 mux on G28. Highest I ever got on the 7.5 was 83-84.

I tried moving the feed assembly to the 53.625 figure, and lost everything. So I don't know how the dish was receiving signal in the first place, unless the original Co-Rotor that was on it set up different.

Bad news is that we had a bad thunderstorm last night, and had a power outage, and must have had a surge, because I no longer have a count sensor. The dish will move, but it will not count.

But I can live with that.


Thanks to everybody that helped, gave encouragement, Special thanks to Mauiguy and Linuxman for going above and beyond. :up

I have done everything I know to this dish, and I am confident I have gotten everything I can out of it.

Time to enjoy it.

 

[linuxman]

That's too bad about the counts. I am sure you will be able to figure it out and fix it, or get something else to move the dish.

I am glad it outperforms your 7.5 footer. That was your goal, and you can consider it as a mission accomplished.

Now it's time to sit back and enjoy the hard work you have put in.

Congratulations!!

 

[Mauiguy]

Congratulations. Glad to hear that it is an improvement on your smaller dish.

 

[gabshere]

whats the sensor look like ?

 

[Anole]

say what ?

My latitude is as listed on the attachment. 30 degrees 21 minutes. Confirmed by my handheld GPS.
So I set the bracket underneath the motor to 30.93 (well,close anyway I got it close to 31 as I could) and then put the inclinometer on the face of the dish just like we talked about and moved the declination to the 35.38 ( again, more or less analog error 35.5 would be my best guess, but then who knows if my construction inclinometer is right or not).

Okay, without reading the entire thread again, that just doesn't sound right.
Two points . . .
Maybe I'm just taking it out of context, but ...
- 30 degrees, 21 minutes is not equal to 30.93 degrees. it's more like 30.35º
- and this suggests you want to set your declination to 35.38 - 30.93 = 4.45º .
. . . So, do you really need to set the face of the dish to 30.35 + 4.45 = 34.8º ?? ... by your way of measuring.

Sorry if I'm being dense.
It's late and I haven't had enough to drink.


edit: okay, it just dawned on me that all the calculators factor in the required declination, so you need to remove that number to properly set the elevation.

- refer to Geo-Orbit for Setting Declination, but also read this Declination Chart page for more info!

Oh, here is the whole damned problem !!!
This site measures angle for your elevation as if up were zero, and down toward the horizon were 90.
That's all! No wonder it's so confusing !
Okay, I feel much better , now.

 

[stogie5150]

whats the sensor look like ?

I dunno George, I don't know a sensor from a milk crate. I am gonna look at it later. Right now my yard is a swamp, I have to give it a few days to dry out.

I am sure I'll have to take a couple pictures so one of you can tell me what I am looking at...LOL

Okay, without reading the entire thread again, that just doesn't sound right.
Two points . . .
Maybe I'm just taking it out of context, but ...
- 30 degrees, 21 minutes is not equal to 30.93 degrees. it's more like 30.35º
- and this suggests you want to set your declination to 35.38 - 30.93 = 4.45º .
. . . So, do you really need to set the face of the dish to 30.35 + 4.45 = 34.8º ?? ... by your way of measuring.

Sorry if I'm being dense.
It's late and I haven't had enough to drink.


edit: okay, it just dawned on me that all the calculators factor in the required declination, so you need to remove that number to properly set the elevation.

- refer to Geo-Orbit for Setting Declination, but also read this Declination Chart page for more info!

Oh, here is the whole damned problem !!!
This site measures angle for your elevation as if up were zero, and down toward the horizon were 90.
That's all! No wonder it's so confusing !
Okay, I feel much better , now.

So you wanna translate that for those of us that have no idea what you are trying to say?
I just set the dish to the numbers I had to the sheet I have. I didn't look at any tables anywhere. Like y'all said, tables are confusing.

 

[linuxman]

Well, here are the numbers from Satellite Finder.

I looked up your latitude and longitude on google, and got:

The latitude of Slidell is 30.275N. The longitude is -89.781W

Satellite Finder says that your elevation should be 30.91, and declination should be 4.37 for a total elevation of 35.28 using 91W as your TS satellite.

That is the site that I have always used for figuring out my elevation and declination, and it has worked pretty well for me.

I didn't look to see how that compares to your attachment.

Edit: I just looked at the attachment again, and the numbers are pretty close.

 

[stogie5150]

I'm baaaaack.

After the fiasco with the dual feeds, I am now unable to replicate the performance I had before, mostly on S2. I have checked the angles, they are spot on. I just reset the F/D to what I had before, and my skew is fine. The NBC S2 mux on 105 is no go. No SQ at all.

What else can I check? Would it be worth it now to futz with the elevation? I checked the pole plumbness with the angle finder, it is within .1 degree all the way around. I remember some talk about elevation needing to be adjusted for absolute aiming. Would that be the next step? What else to check?

 

[Lak7]

Which LNBF are you using?

 

[voomvoom]

In post#18, stogie has a picture of a Corotor2....

 

[Lak7]

Thanks VoomVoom!
My thought was to double check skew and position if he's using a C / Ku combo LNBF.
I just had a simular problem, probably a bird landed on my BSC621 and knocked it off center a little. C and Ku were working good, just not DVB-S2. Re-reset LNBF and was good to go.

 

[voomvoom]

Hey Lak, I don't know if that's what he used? Those are pictures, when he was disassembling the dish to refurbish it. He could have used one of those BSC's or C/K1's? It's probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but I don't feel like looking through the whole thread... I guess (actually I'm sure) he'll be back, and answer your question?

 

[linuxman]

He has a dual feed C-Band only on the paraclypse. The CK-2 I think. Voltage controlled C-Band LNBF.

 

[voomvoom]

Fred, I bought the Dual C-Band feedhorn from him, along with some other goodies...!

 

[stogie5150]

Fred, I bought the Dual C-Band feedhorn from him, along with some other goodies...!

He meant the Dual Voltage controlled LNB that SatelliteAV used to sell. I don't recall the model number. But I am using it again. It worked fine before, well better than my 7.5 dish did, but I cannot get it back. Only thing I changed is the skew a bit, and the .375 dish setting...I had it closer to .38, so I moved it back a bit. I guess I could play with the skew a bit more. I hate to mess up what I have now, the only way to reach the horn to adjust the skew is to run the dish hard east or hard west, the dish is so high and deep I cannot reach the horn when the dish is at TS. I wish I had a forklift or a bucket truck...LOL

I was gonna attack this tomorrow, but something has come up. I am gonna go buy a dish hauling truck...
My cousin has a 1996 Ford P/U that he's gonna sell me cheap...I'll have a dish hauler again!:up

 

[voomvoom]

Congratulations on your soon to be new (to you) Ford P/U. You might think about putting a Boom on it, since you're dedicating it to Dish Hauling...? Uhmmmm? Maybe a Boom like that could be used to mount a Dish on a Pole...??