Court Orders Dish to Drop ALL Distant Networks

[Greg Bimson]

I've got to believe that the CBS and NBC deals (and the alleged negotiations with FOX and ABC) are what they consider to be workarounds to the injunction. Why else would they be putting time and money into the effort?

So let's call me unaware:

What deal with NBC? Is NBC HD now on Dish Network?

I think I said this somewhere else. It will take a while for the District court to get the case back on its docket, and then issue the injunction.

And let's not forget, Dish Network is already supplying HD networks, in a local-into-local fashion. I'm fairly certain that NBC, ABC, and FOX won't bother allowing a distant HD affiliate in those markets. Both Dish Network and DirecTV will have a majority of the households covered by year's end. I foresee that Dish Network will not have an agreement with the remaining networks to allow importation of a distant. There's nothing in it for them.

The main issue, since I haven't read the law in a while, is if the license that governs the current analog distant networks is the same as the one governing the distant digital networks. I believe they are the same license, so an injunction to that license suspends both. A few others that have read the law agree with me. But it may be open to interpretation. That's what the courts are for.

It's only taken eight-plus years so far, and Dish Network is still retransmitting distant networks, so it wouldn't surprise me that there is still some time left on this thing.

 

[chaddux]

Chad, SHVA is the original that allowed for legal distribution of network channels even over the objections of the networks themselves.

SHVIA allowed for local into local by satellite vendors and narrowed the conditions under which distant networks are allowed against the will of the network being distributed.

The SHVREA (the latest) Pretty much left the conditions under which distant SD networks are available against the will of the network being distributed with the major exception that if your locals were available via satellite no matter what the signal level you no longer automatically qualify for distants. It also specifically allowed for digital local into local which was only implied before. At the same time it charged the FCC with setting up rules for digital must carry and distant network qualifications.

The current rules for distant networks are for SD only.

See ya
Tony

Tony, I know what the various laws are and what they do but I can't find anything on "SHVREA." As I said in my last post, I think you're just using the wrong acronym. Are SHVERA and SHVREA two different things?

 

[TNGTony]

Made this thread a sticky by request.

Chad. Sorry. I got my rea and era crossed. I was never for the era anyway.

See ya
Tony

 

[TNGTony]

The main issue, since I haven't read the law in a while, is if the license that governs the current analog distant networks is the same as the one governing the distant digital networks. I believe they are the same license, so an injunction to that license suspends both. A few others that have read the law agree with me. But it may be open to interpretation. That's what the courts are for.

It's only taken eight-plus years so far, and Dish Network is still retransmitting distant networks, so it wouldn't surprise me that there is still some time left on this thing.

No doubt. It's been a weeks since the ruling was handed down and I still have my distant network.

I will not be able to convince you and you will not be able to convince me. Not relativism here.

I know the CBS HD station is being provided by license from CBS, owner of the copyrights. It is not being provided by statutory means.

You doubt this and say it is a statutory license. So I guess that is that.

I wont agree to disagree since that would be relativistic

See ya
Tony

 

[Greg Bimson]

I know the CBS HD station is being provided by license from CBS, owner of the copyrights. It is not being provided by statutory means.

You doubt this and say it is a statutory license. So I guess that is that.

I wont agree to disagree since that would be relativistic

Now that's good comedy, right there.

Well, everyone else help me out. I have a clear-cut way to know if I am right:

Is anything blacked-out on the CBS HD feed, at any time, for those within the O&O markets?

 

[waltinvt]

Now that's good comedy, right there.

Well, everyone else help me out. I have a clear-cut way to know if I am right:

Is anything blacked-out on the CBS HD feed, at any time, for those within the O&O markets?

Not a good time to tell (for me anyway) since the only sports I watch there are NFL games in the fall.

 

[BigFella]

Now that's good comedy, right there.

Well, everyone else help me out. I have a clear-cut way to know if I am right:

Is anything blacked-out on the CBS HD feed, at any time, for those within the O&O markets?

I'm in the LA DMA and haven't noticed a black out over the past 2 or 3 years that I've subscribed to CBS HD.

 

[Greg Bimson]

CBS cannot clear the copyright for their coverage of NFL games.

DirecTV has an exclusive agreement the NFL for out-of-market coverage of NFL games. The NFL will not give CBS the right to distribute out-of-market games.

However, CBS can distribute the games on the NY and LA affiliates if they've given a blanket waiver.

So, if the NFL games are not blacked out on CBS HD, then the Dish Network and CBS carriage contract is using the SHVA/VIA/VERA in order to distribute CBS HD nationwide.

Which means it will also be subject to the injunction, if the license for analog and digital are not separate. Like I've said, I need to reread the section of the law.

 

[Mark_AR]

My CBS-HD East went dark last night on 61.5'W - Just black screen. Channel info and guide info were correctly displayed.

I just checked it again @ 9:45AM CT, and it was back up. I dunno if this had anything to do with anything or not...

 

[Greg Bimson]

Dish can seek a rehearing "en banc" - which basically is a rehearing by all of the 11th Circuit judges. The initial opinion was decided (as is almost always the case) by a panel of 3 judges and one of them was sitting by designation, which means that he isn't normally an appellate judge of that Circuit. The 11th Circuit has several other judges who did not participate in this appeal but would participate if rehearing en banc is granted. I can't project Dish's chances on having the rehearing granted (it is not automatic) or, if granted, the likelihood of success. But, having read the opinion, I suspect they (Dish) may focus on whether the 3 judge appellate panel properly applied the legal standard of review in (1) rejecting the findings and relief adopted by the trial court and (2) substituting their own findings as to the nature of Dish's conduct and the appropriate remedy.

From SatBizNews.com, today, 14 June:

EchoStar Communications yesterday asked the full 11th District Court of Appeals to re-hear its appeal in its long-running white-area legal battle with broadcasters.

There's still some steam left in the engine.

 

[Grandpa J]

If this is the wrong place to ask - please excuse - but...

It is my understanding that under the regs a OTA DNS digital signal can not be re-transmitted to a time zone before the OTA digital signal would "normally" be transmitted in that time zone. If this is true than every viewer in the western time zone could only get a DNS digital signal from the western time rather than the eastern, etc time zones. It would seem the same applies to central and mountain time zones - e.g no eastern zone digital DNS.

As all OTA stations must drop analog and go digital in 2009 some of the benefits of DNS for viewers west of the eastern time zone would seem lost - if this is true.

Can someone confirm this?

If true - with the use of PVRs o lot of the benefits of DNS would seem to have a limited life span of about 3 years. Living in the western time zone and enjoying the N.Y DNS for 10 years was good - but it looks like ...all good things maybe coming to an end.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I'll confirm it. When the analog cut-off occurs, analog DNS ends.

As noted by this thread, nothing is "illegal" until someone that is injured sues in a court of law and wins.

DirecTV is offering HD Distant Network Service. For those in the Central and Eastern Time Zones, they receive the New York feeds. For those in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones, they receive the Los Angeles feeds.

There are two issues: 1) DirecTV is giving Central Time customers Eastern Time locals (which could be a no-no) and DirecTV is giving Mountain Time customers Pacific Time locals, and; 2) DirecTV could give Eastern or Central viewers the LA HD feeds, but their policy is not to do so.

So, unless or until an injured party calls DirecTV on it, I expect DirecTV to continue to offer DNS HD service. Remember, all these local markets DirecTV has added will also force customers in those markets to lose their HD Distants, at some point. The delay is probably due to the transition to the MPEG4 signals.

 

[n0qcu]

There are two issues: 1) DirecTV is giving Central Time customers Eastern Time locals (which could be a no-no) .

WRONG....There is not a seperate Central time feed of any network programing.
the actual time zones are:

Eastern/Central - They are the same...
Mountain
Pacific

 

[BigFella]

Made this thread a sticky by request.

What happened to the "sticky"?

 

[MikeD-C05]

Yesterday I finally got approved for my Cbs Waiver that I have been asking for for 6 years. I can get all my networks from anywhere now that Dish has them : New York, L.A. Chicago, Dallas, Denver. Funny for a company that was told to take down the distant networks they sure seem to still be adding distant networks. I actually had to call and get them to drop off the Cbs stations from New York and L. A. since I don't need them anyway with Hd locals.

 

[daveh69]

Yesterday I finally got approved for my Cbs Waiver that I have been asking for for 6 years. I can get all my networks from anywhere now that Dish has them : New York, L.A. Chicago, Dallas, Denver. Funny for a company that was told to take down the distant networks they sure seem to still be adding distant networks. I actually had to call and get them to drop off the Cbs stations from New York and L. A. since I don't need them anyway with Hd locals.

Denver?

Weren't those DNS channels whacked some time ago?

 

[cablewithaview]

Denver?

Weren't those DNS channels whacked some time ago?

Atlanta

 

[Grandude]

What happened to the "sticky"?

I've got a better idea, close this thread and wait to see what happens. All this speculation, back and forth, will resolve NOTHING.

 

[BigFella]

I've got a better idea, close this thread and wait to see what happens. All this speculation, back and forth, will resolve NOTHING.

Resolve? Of course not... I'm having a great time reading the back and forth "speculation" in a subject that I and a bunch of others (over 23,000 views) are keenly interested in. After all, the only people that can actually resolve this issue wear black robes and probably don't frequent this board (although, I wish they did).

 

[waltinvt]

I've got a better idea, close this thread and wait to see what happens. All this speculation, back and forth, will resolve NOTHING.

You're no fun