D12 satellite - now we're receiving signals!

[Ken S]

I think they're just having a bit of a problem parking D12 in the proper orbit. This video of their attempts was just released.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bWbau0Rxq0]YouTube - bad parking[/ame]

 

[hancox]

Merged the 2 dueling threads on D12. Carry on, kiddies.

 

[hancox]

I know Tom and Doug at the other site have heard from their sources that D12 is fine. While I don't doubt that Tom and Doug are reporting exactly what their sources are saying, I believe it's possible their sources aren't being truthful with them.

Leaking out info about D12 having problems ahead of an SEC filing would probably be considered a violation of insider trading laws. The sources are going to keep giving the party line until they can legally state otherwise.

Keep in mind that everyone there was mortified when we suggested D10 had issues. Amazingly enough, a few days later, it was "announced" there.

Just sayin'

 

[harshness]

Looking at the TLE's that satellite has one hell of a wobble. It might not be usable as a DBS satellite with a wobble that bad.

TLEs do not contemplate wobble; they simply serve as a model to predict where the satellite will be, not where it is facing.

If you look back, D12 was maintaining a very round orbit until recently.

E14 is in a similarly elliptic orbit if you compare its TLEs.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If you look back, D12 was maintaining a very round orbit until recently.

So what happend? That is what I would like to know.

 

[harshness]

Amazingly enough, a few days later, it was "announced" there.

The issue with D10 was that TLEs stopped coming. This has not been an issue with D12. Actually, the latest TLE I've found (3:28:46am PST yesterday) is more than a day old which is a decided change from the two-per-day of weeks ago.

The fear here comes from the repeated applications for extensions to test the fundamental functions of the satellite.

 

[Lt Disher]

Excuse my ignorance, but maybe an engineer could answer. Are there two kinds of wobble?

The first being the wobble of an elliptical orbit. The wobble would be the difference between distances from the earth. This seems to be the wobble noted now with D12.

One of DISH's satellites (maybe E5) had wobble that made it unreliable. That wobble was caused by a failure of the internal gyroscope, I think. It made the satellite shaky as I understand it.

Are these the same thing?

 

[harshness]

So what happend? That is what I would like to know.

Unless there was a significant failure, we'll probably never know.

The signs (removal of "capacity for more than 200" from the website and an STA [strike]application as opposed to an[/strike] extension) aren't promising, but as suggested, a real failure would demand an SEC filing.

Did anyone ever find where the recent application to drift had been granted?

 

[hancox]

The issue with D10 was that TLEs stopped coming. This has not been an issue with D12. Actually, the latest TLE I've found (3:28:46am PST yesterday) is more than a day old which is a decided change from the two-per-day of weeks ago.

The fear here comes from the repeated applications for extensions to test the fundamental functions of the satellite.

No, not the issue I'm talking about. D10 has spotbeam strength issues that were poo-pooed when it was put up here first.

 

[harshness]

Are these the same thing?

No. E5's orbit was round. The direction that it faced was not easily controlled.

Wobble suggests an irregular pattern and an elliptical orbit is certainly not irregular.

 

[Lt Disher]

No. E5's orbit was round. The direction that it faced was not easily controlled.

Wobble suggests an irregular pattern and an elliptical orbit is certainly not irregular.

Thanks! So would you conclude that the wobble that Scott is talking about in his post would not be a problem? Although, it would be interesting to know why it has started recently.

 

[harshness]

No, not the issue I'm talking about. D10 has spotbeam strength issues that were poo-pooed when it was put up here first.

If D12 had spotbeam issues, we would have heard about it as it was intended to replace D10's spotbeams and documented as such in SEC filings. Failure of D12 to perform that function would have certainly been worthy of a SEC filing.

Perhaps the absence of information is because there isn't anything interesting to report. Then again, maybe DIRECTV has plugged the information leak.

For now, the amount of testing time is extraordinary. Beyond that we know little other than it doesn't appear to be moving and DIRECTV wants to continue testing.

 

[harshness]

Thanks! So would you conclude that the wobble that Scott is talking about in his post would not be a problem?

What Scott observed was not an indication of wobble in the classic sense (gyro problems). I believe he observes an eccentricity in the orbit which is called, oddly enough, eccentricity.

Although, it would be interesting to know why it has started recently.

I'm guessing they're testing station keeping systems. D12 has performed those very well previously.

 

[Lt Disher]

What Scott observed was not an indication of wobble in the classic sense (gyro problems). I believe he observes an eccentricity in the orbit which is called, oddly enough, eccentricity.I'm guessing they're testing station keeping systems. D12 has performed those very well previously.

Thanks again! For someone with an ID of harshness, you certainly give calm and reasoned answers.

 

[nelson61]

I had not been closely folllowing it but going back and looking at the data, it sure looks like it is stable and well within the stationkeeping standards.

 

[harshness]

I had not been closely folllowing it but going back and looking at the data, it sure looks like it is stable and well within the stationkeeping standards.

The last few TLEs have been quite eccentric relative to the previous few dozen TLEs.

I suspect that a Ka bird must be held to much tighter tolerances given the relatively small spotbeam footprints.

 

[apollog]

I bet Charlie and his crew are loving every minute of this saga. Instead of counting sheep at night, he counts $$$$$.

 

[apollog]

If D12 had spotbeam issues, we would have heard about it as it was intended to replace D10's spotbeams and documented as such in SEC filings. Failure of D12 to perform that function would have certainly been worthy of a SEC filing.

Perhaps the absence of information is because there isn't anything interesting to report. Then again, maybe DIRECTV has plugged the information leak.

For now, the amount of testing time is extraordinary. Beyond that we know little other than it doesn't appear to be moving and DIRECTV wants to continue testing.

Charlie's Satellites are up and running within 2 months of launching into orbit, ex. E14 is almost ready to go live next month. Why doesn't DTV get their sats. built by Charlie's sat. manufacturer?

 

[iceturkee]

u must have forgotten about charlie's sateliite that never made it into orbit last year.

 

[harshness]

Thanks again! For someone with an ID of harshness, you certainly give calm and reasoned answers.

This is serious business and there's little place for "fooling around to break the tension".

You bring up an important point: my analyses and those of others here are largely speculative. We're making guesses based on history and fundamental laws of physics. The only real data we have are the TLEs and how much time has elapsed salted with occasional appearance of an extension request.

The other site's DIRECTV moderators seem to be bent on assuring that everything is nominal with D12 but the source of their confidence is never identified in even the most general terms. Even with obvious uncertainty of the ongoing testing schedule, they continue to insist that everything is proceeding according to plan. If this was the plan, why didn't DIRECTV apply for an "up to 90 days" testing STA in the first place?