DISH's second quarter number posted and they lost 281,000 subs

[STDog]

[QUOTE="lparsons21, post: 3926663, member: 143]Possibly the ones sticking around are like me and have found that the Hopper/SuperJoey/Joey series are just superb[/QUOTE]

VIP 211k and 2 211's here. $40 one time fer for DVR on all with as much storage as I care to buy.

The Hopper/Joey setup offer nothing I want.

And no one else can match it.

 

[Troch77]

Lose some non-profitable customers + don't add many new customers that in the short term cost them money with new customer deals and acquisition costs = profit remains intact

That will turn downward faster than it took to rise. With 200,000 a quarter leaving.

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[Troch77]

don't add many new customers that in the short term cost them money with new customer deals and acquisition costs = profit remains intact

And don't pay Tribune and NFL while not lowering the rates.



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[dare2be]

And don't pay Tribune and NFL while not lowering the rates.

I know you're being facetious, but too small a blip and too short a time frame (compared to a whole quarter) to be anything more than negligible.

 

[Troch77]

I know you're being facetious, but too small a blip and too short a time frame (compared to a whole quarter) to be anything more than negligible.

Okay quarter 3 we'll talk.
Hopefully Dish is paying NFL by then.

And as you just said, that's when the full effect of the disputes will kick in.

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[dare2be]

And as you just said, that's when the full effect of the disputes will kick in.

It'll also be about half of the time when the Flex pack gets marketed heavily, so it'll be an interesting quarter.

 

[Troch77]

It'll also be about half of the time when the Flex pack gets marketed heavily, so it'll be an interesting quarter.

If you say so.


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[dare2be]

I didn't say so, I was just reporting what someone else did. August 4th, IIRC.

 

[dare2be]

That's 29 million dollars @ $89 ARPU lost to someone else.

How'd I miss this?

Way overstated.

Take the ARPU of $89, and given Dish's historical single-digit net profit%, that would mean their ACPU (average cost per user) is roughly $80. So they make on average $9 profit on each customer. The actual profit lost from those subs would be $9 x 281,000 x 3 months = 7.5 million. Out of $400 million net income? A blip.

 

[anex80]

Concerning the Flex packs, I don't see how it is earth-shattering news to say you can pay less and get less. If the packages have the channels you want and can save you money then great! But the fact remains there are far fewer channels in those packages.

I broke down the cost per channel (including fees) for all of the channels I watch in each package. For me, the cost per channel hovers around $2 in the standard packages but $3 in the flex package. I don't see how that's a great value.


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[tubetwister]

On topic , I was getting fed up with loosing channel groups I watched that never gave Dish any concessions that amounted to anthing anyway and never showed up on my bill ,IMO Dish may be a poorly manged mess with the earmarks of management silos ,management recalcitrance , and fiefdoms and out of touch management and even the well regarded Hopper system cant fix the Dish TV HD lite mess anyway . Had I known the difference to ATT/ D*TV HD 6 years ago I would have been there at D*TV at that time


Somebody needs to tell the management at Dish TV you can not save your way to legitimate profit if you have been managing the business even half way well without cutting corners, been there and done that with multi nationals and it never works long at all .


Don't let anyone tell you the HD difference at Dish to better D*TV HD small it is not and the TV's in my sig. can clearly demonstrate all that and so can the other 2 on D*TV here just not like the the 2 best here. you can see the better picture all around across a large room on my 2 best sets. I am looking forward to watching ball games I can't get on OTA locals on D*TV .they all looked poor most of the time on Dish by comparison to OTA and D*TV now and some are using (some ) 4K cameras now.


FWIW I don't mind paying a premium for decent HD and mid tier to better channel line ups but not at all for the Dish HD lite high noise floor way swashed down mess they call HD which is more 1440x1080i or 1280x1080i, with a corresponding reduction in bandwidth and over compression and bit staving on Dish way below D*TV HD quality






After some years in good standing at Dish with a 2 room (1) VIP 722K and (1) VIP 211K install I got an offer from my longstanding ATT/Broadband ISP for D*TV 4 room standard HD install with an HR 54 Genie whole house DVR and 3 Genie room clients in the double play ATT/D*TV bundle ,no money up front or deferred money ,no wiring ,activation or installation charges or monthly device fees and a waaaay better HD picture by a country mile ,maybe two ..


(TBH I did not ever think DBS HD /CATV could look this good) ,not 5 star blue ray but decently OK for what it is . and way less noise and panel dithering and remarkably better chroma and depth ( obviously a lower noise floor and less squashing than Dish HD ) and ~ &50.00 cheaper per mo. locked in for at last two years AND a $200.00 Visa reward card ....



come on ....whats not to like aside from poor (worse than Dish SD ) and I can and do get better SD or HD up to 4K HDR than both of them on IPTV anyway but again D*TV HD is very watchable by comparison to Dish and pretty OK on it's own for what it is ?

No compelling retention offer from Dish , Dish wanted additional wiring (custom install) money for each additional room beyond the ( 2) I had and above all that ,50.00 ea for (2) 211K receivers ,maybe $40.000- $50.00 ea to activate same, leased receiver charges for two more rooms....... That was on ancient huge VIP 211K (receiver only) not Hoppers all that would be maybe twice as much to upgrade maybe $400.00 plus the wiring .


pppfffttt I canceled Dish at the end of the billing period no bal. due , (no remorse) and got the 4 room D*TV /Genie device and whole house DVR D*TV configuration, not a penny up front ,or deferred or in mo. leases on ATT/D*TV double play bundle and again waaaay better HD ~ $50.00 a mo less anyway and a $200.00 Visa comp and something on the broadband

I had some issues with the unexpected rooftop LN LB device return to Dish in lieu of $199.00 on it's own that they put up there that were resolved very fairly at no charge by a very pleasant young lady on the phone so that was all fine and uncharacteristic to past experience ............and I pulled out my senior card anyway just in case but she was uncharacteristically very polite (for Dish) and efficient anyway ( ?maybe the senior card got me off ?...... she did have to confer with some one ) and I will let the presidents office at Dish know about her excellent service and her name .

I can see why Dish loose subs and me now ,and nobody wants that sling thing anyway better alternatives abound everywhere far as I'm concerned *maybe a better managed company should buy them and fire the current CEO ,C level management and board of directors immediatly .or as soon as possible but.........................Maybe Charlies playing a long game I don't know ..

OTOH I haven't looked at the Dish TTM statistics and balance sheets either or beyond that which is maybe more of a tell . I don't own Dish TV equities and besides my AZO been nothing but a phatt money tree since ~ 2005 anyway

OTOH maybe a lot of folks ain't critical of HD quality ,depth ,low noise and color that's an imperative with me and I was always looking for OTA local, iptv or media alternatives here rather than Dish HD ......you can probably get all that from my sig. anyway I just didn't know how much better D*TV HD is ...............



ofc they both offer new customer substantial maybe 2 yr discounts but aside from all that I will take D*TV HD and not losing channel groups at the whims of the maybe failing CEO there thank you ?.

 

[dare2be]

If the packages have the channels you want and can save you money then great!

That's all that matters. Sure, ala carte will be more per channel, but if you have the choice to get the channels you want and spend less, then that's the point. Just like at warehouse clubs...you pay less per item buying in bulk, but if a dozen of something is all you can use, why pay twice as much for 3 dozen?

 

[Tampa8]

How'd I miss this?

Way overstated.

Take the ARPU of $89, and given Dish's historical single-digit net profit%, that would mean their ACPU (average cost per user) is roughly $80. So they make on average $9 profit on each customer. The actual profit lost from those subs would be $9 x 281,000 x 3 months = 7.5 million. Out of $400 million net income? A blip.

That escaped me also.

 

[Tampa8]

That's all that matters. Sure, ala carte will be more per channel, but if you have the choice to get the channels you want and spend less, then that's the point. Just like at warehouse clubs...you pay less per item buying in bulk, but if a dozen of something is all you can use, why pay twice as much for 3 dozen?

And to expand, the idea behind the Flex package isn't to then get several add on's. That is just a backwards way to simply get a full package. The idea is that the Flex package contains most of the general cable channels that you might otherwise need to get the Top 200 for and spend much more. It then gives the choice to get or not get the locals.
Past that if you have maybe one other interest, say Sports but not the news channels, or the opposite you add that. Or maybe one of the other add on's, not most of them.

I also think some are forgetting when doing it this way if you have a time of year you want the sports you get it then, and when done drop it. Or maybe one of the other add ons that has a couple of channels you watch but only for a couple of shows. When they finish their season you could drop that package.

 

[Troch77]

How'd I miss this?

Way overstated.

Take the ARPU of $89, and given Dish's historical single-digit net profit%, that would mean their ACPU (average cost per user) is roughly $80. So they make on average $9 profit on each customer. The actual profit lost from those subs would be $9 x 281,000 x 3 months = 7.5 million. Out of $400 million net income? A blip.

Okay so your telling me that Flex pack customers paying only $35 cost $80 to provide service?

You lost 281,000 customers.
Your company lost a potential average of $29 million dollars of income.
Now you have less customers paying for the same network contracts that still exist.

Who gives a sh*t about Charlie's net profit.
I care about the amount of money available to invest in the company.
Operating costs have to be paid.

You are way understated.

But again, we can just go round and round and it really doesn't make a difference to DISH at all,
So with that in mind , I'll cap it for now, and see how the rest of the year goes.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[Troch77]

.

And now we woke this guy up.....



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[dare2be]

You are way understated.

You can't apply an average ($80) to a specific ($35). That's not how it works. Plus, we don't know how many of those lost subs were $150 subs vs. $35 subs. The only way to look at it is the averages $89-$80.

 

[dare2be]

Now you have less customers paying for the same network contracts that still exist.

That's not how it works. If you have half the customers, you have half the subscribers to a channel, and that channel only gets half the revenue from the contract. The contracts are written per-sub.

For instance, ESPN gets $6 per subscriber. If this month there are 10,000,000 customers with ESPN in their packages, ESPN gets $60 million. Next month 9,000,000 subscribe to ESPN, they would only get $54 million.

 

[Troch77]

That's not how it works. If you have half the customers, you have half the subscribers to a channel, and that channel only gets half the revenue from the contract. The contracts are written per-sub.

I'm not so sure about that.
If that was the case, Charlie wouldn't drop channels based on low viewship.

He drops channels because he's paying big bucks for channels he claims No one wants.


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[tubetwister]

Bob Haller

just think of how many subs they tossed in the trash, by doubling fees overnight

their treatment of departing subs, requiring them to pay to return leased boxes. thats plain stupid. those subs will likely never do business with dish ever again.....

Count me in that group besides ATT/ D*TV HD is country miles better than Dish anyway.


Despite the worse than lousy D*TV SD I can get nearly all that at Hulu Plus IPTV better than both SD above anyway and better HD and up to 4K HDR than both of those DBS Satellite services on Netfix , Amazon included Prime and VUDU HDX IPTV and some others all day ?

charlie was managing to gain subs, then turned over management to the college suits......

Nothing worse than a PhD , DBA or MBA teaching what they can not do !

pppfffttt Had to re train all the grads I and we hired at ( Multinationals) I managed at ..... generally useless tools when they graduate and often far beyond that till we beat them enough ?